The Gun Control Debate

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I think everything should be legal. Nanny states suck.

A bit off topic, but I was wondering who coined the term, 'nanny state' and I found this...

The term "Nanny State" was probably coined by the Conservative British MP Iain Macleod who wrote "what I like to call the nanny state . . ." in his column "Quoodle" in the December 3, 1965 edition of The Spectator.

American foreign policy critic Noam Chomsky regularly uses the term "nanny state" to refer to U.S. protectionist policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanny_state

This is why I try to steer clear of catch phrases because while they imply something negative, everybody's got a different idea about what kind of negative it means.

Just food for thought.

[PlatyPius 5]

I think more people are killed by bathtubs than by guns....

OUTLAW BATHTUBS!!!

It's Friday night. What have you been smoking?

Vicodin

It doesn't really make the back pain go away, but it gets me so stoned that I don't care anymore.

[rebeccajo 14]

I think more people are killed by bathtubs than by guns....

OUTLAW BATHTUBS!!!

It's Friday night. What have you been smoking?

Vicodin

It doesn't really make the back pain go away, but it gets me so stoned that I don't care anymore.

Rock On.

[DeadPoolX 9]

I think more people are killed by bathtubs than by guns....

OUTLAW BATHTUBS!!!

It's Friday night. What have you been smoking?

Vicodin

It doesn't really make the back pain go away, but it gets me so stoned that I don't care anymore.

That reminds me of humor columnist Dave Barry's cure for the common cold. He said the trick is to drink mass quantities of beer. It won't actually get rid of the cold, but you'll be so sloshed, you won't remember ever being sick!

[cmartyn 0]

There is a great difference between bathtubs, cars, and guns. That is Intent. I like the matches and knives arguments better. Cars are a stretch and bathtubs are right out.

[garya505 2]

In California, drowning is the number one cause of accidental death for children 1-4 years of age.

Outlaw swimming pools in California!

[rebeccajo 14]

In California, drowning is the number one cause of accidental death for children 1-4 years of age.

Outlaw swimming pools in California!

I'm gonna go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out on a limb and guess that in California, there is an ordinance that a pool has to have a fence around it. I'm also surmising you can't get insurance without that fence.

Most things that have an element of risk have restrictions on their use. Guns should not be an exception.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There really is no need for this debate. End of the day I and other gun owners will still be armed and the anti-gun folks won't be. I'm ok with that.

Me too.

Everytime there's a shooting like this, the anti-gun crowd wants to pass some more feel-good legislation that doesn't work.

You do have to admit however, that this sort of thing happens a hell of a lot in this country.

I doubt that restricting or banning guns has much to do with the prevalence of disturbed and psychotic people - but we should be honest here and admit that it gives them rather a lot of capacity to inflict maximum damage. When Thomas Hamilton strolled into Dunblane Primary School in Scotland and unloaded on the 7-8 year olds, precipitating the now total ban on firearms in the UK - Prince Philip made this rather crass comment:

a gun is no more dangerous than a cricket bat in the hands of a madman

I'm sorry but however much we want to relativise what a gun is, how cars can be used to kill, as can knives, hammers, rope, even plastic bags - there's simply no way that a balding, out of shape fat man huffing and puffing around the gymnasium could have caused that much damage in that same space of time (i.e. before the cops showed up) had he been armed with a big stick, rather than a brace of revolvers, and a pair of semi-automatic pistols. I don't think that's an unrealistic assessment - in all honesty. In these types of incidents the gun wasn't the 'cause', rather it was the 'means' and chosen not only because it allowed the guy to cause the most damage in the shortest amount of time, but also because it offers the perp a quick check out at the end - without having to face the consequences of his actions.

There's a pretty specific MO to the perpetrators of these massacres - low self-esteem, big (wonky) ego. I do have to wonder what kind of conditions produce such deviant personalities - but clearly there is something at work in our society that causes this to happen multiple times per year.

I'm not sure that these massacres make the best case for reform of current laws - while they are the most highly publicised due to the high body counts, the vast majority of gun crime is not the work of psychos who snap one day, but rather people connected to, or involved with organised crime.

[cmartyn 0]

Fertilizer bombs are bad too. There always a relatively good relative argument. :-)

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

You do have to admit however, that this sort of thing happens a hell of a lot in this country.

Define 'hell of a lot'. Several times a day like Islamic terrorism worldwide?

[garya505 2]

You do have to admit however, that this sort of thing happens a hell of a lot in this country.

Actually compared to other violent crimes and deaths caused by drunken driving, cases like the Illinois shooting are rare. They make really sensational news stories though.

[garya505 2]

In California, drowning is the number one cause of accidental death for children 1-4 years of age.

Outlaw swimming pools in California!

I'm gonna go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out on a limb and guess that in California, there is an ordinance that a pool has to have a fence around it. I'm also surmising you can't get insurance without that fence.

Most things that have an element of risk have restrictions on their use. Guns should not be an exception.

Once and a while you actually make some sense.

I see now that the news about the Illinois shooter is out and he was a nut like I thought. Nuts shouldn't have guns or any other lethal device.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You do have to admit however, that this sort of thing happens a hell of a lot in this country.

Actually compared to other violent crimes and deaths caused by drunken driving, cases like the Illinois shooting are rare. They make really sensational news stories though.

Sure - but then mass murder always tends to. Comparatively, this gun rampage phenomenon seems to happen a lot more often in the US.

You do have to admit however, that this sort of thing happens a hell of a lot in this country.

Define 'hell of a lot'. Several times a day like Islamic terrorism worldwide?

Well... Several times a year. Compared to other countries...

[rebeccajo 14]

In California, drowning is the number one cause of accidental death for children 1-4 years of age.

Outlaw swimming pools in California!

I'm gonna go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out on a limb and guess that in California, there is an ordinance that a pool has to have a fence around it. I'm also surmising you can't get insurance without that fence.

Most things that have an element of risk have restrictions on their use. Guns should not be an exception.

Once and a while you actually make some sense.

I see now that the news about the Illinois shooter is out and he was a nut like I thought. Nuts shouldn't have guns or any other lethal device.

?

They are saying he had a stint in a mental hospital several years ago. But otherwise all news stories I have read say he doesn't at all fit the profile of a troubled person. Friendly, well liked, good student, etc.

The weapons used were legally purchased. As has been pointed out to me, they were the semi-automatic variety. He had four of them, two purchased very recently. He carried four weapons.

Gary, I understand that gun ownership is a right in this country. I certainly believe in the basic principles of our Constitution and the sheer genius of our forefathers in creating a document that would preserve a government by the people and for the people. I believe that when the Constitution is chipped away at, we are all in trouble.

But I also don't believe anybody needs to own a personal arsenal. Plus guns, like all other commodities, have advanced technologically just like anything else. Everyday people have absolutely no need to possess automatic or semi-automatic weapons.

Charles, Gary - any of you in this thread - you can call me 'emotional' if you like. But for some reason, I can't get images of what it must have been like in that lecture hall out of my head. I cannot imagine being the parent of one of these murdered students. I do not understand what happens in a persons head when they 'snap' and decide to take the lives of innocent bystanders to ease their own suffering. I don't understand why violence in our society is glorified; why it is seen so much on television; in video games. I don't understand how having a gun in my own home, learning to use it, and teaching my child how to respect it - how that teaches them anything of value in dealing with other human beings. I just can't.

I understand and I guess I respect much of what you are saying. I don't understand your fascination with certain types of guns or why you would want to own the newest, fastest-firing one. I don't understand the theory that if all of us were packing, we would be a safer society. To me, violence begats violence. If you expect me and others like me to respect your right to keep guns, you surely must understand there has to be some respect on your part to not hold your individual right over the rights of safety in our society. There just HAS to a limit to the number of weapons a responsible society allows in its midst. Rampant gun ownership isn't what our founding fathers had in mind. That type of 'liberty' can only create the very anarchy they were trying to grant us.

Edited February 16, 2008 by rebeccajo

[one...two...tree 2,762]

In California, drowning is the number one cause of accidental death for children 1-4 years of age.

Outlaw swimming pools in California!

I'm gonna go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out on a limb and guess that in California, there is an ordinance that a pool has to have a fence around it. I'm also surmising you can't get insurance without that fence.

Most things that have an element of risk have restrictions on their use. Guns should not be an exception.

Yes, there are plenty of ordinances with regard to having a pool in your backyard. If you corner Gary on regulations, he'll concede that some regulations on the gun sales and ownership are reasonable and necessary. We can argue over which ones are reasonable (like denying convicted felons and mental patients), but I seriously doubt anyone here who is a gun advocate would argue that there shouldn't be ANY regulations or restrictions on gun sales and ownership.