Mike Huckabee finally gets the message...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

With the economy hitting the skids, a moratorium on immigration, in general, is probably the last thing we need.

why ?

Why what why why why?

How?

Who?

...Where?

huh?

Indeed.

[LaL 418]

AJ has his beliefs and I have mine. I would say they are slightly different. He appears to be more convinced the issue is race-based than I do. After some enlightened discussions and thinking about it, my personal opinion is much of the anti-illegal rhetoric is more nativist than racist. So I don't necessarily think you are 'skeered of brown people' but I do think your beliefs are bigoted towards anyone who isn't born here - perhaps even those whose parents were not. And frankly I can't abide that.

My only agenda is to expose the foundation of your beliefs for where they come from. If they come from an organization that basically is opposed to immigration of any kind, then I believe the readers here need to know that. This is, after all, a website full of people who either are immigrants or are married to one. If those same organizations are lead or were created by people who have (at the heart of their agenda) a true racist bent, then that is relevant also in my opinion.

You posted the graphs and you posted the links, Peejay. If you didn't want people to follow them then you shouldn't have put them up.

I am going to have to agree, it isn't at all totally about race however it is an incidental component. It seems many of the arguments (other than the simplistic chest-beating posts) have roots in what is stated above.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I don't think 1970 would have ever been picked as a pivotal moment if it weren't for the fact that the primary change post-1970 was more Latin American and Asian and less European immigration.

[natty bumppo 297]

With the economy hitting the skids, a moratorium on immigration, in general, is probably the last thing we need.

why ?

Why what why why why?

How?

Who?

...Where?

Again ... simple question ... why?

Please explain.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

With the economy hitting the skids, a moratorium on immigration, in general, is probably the last thing we need.

why ?

Why what why why why?

How?

Who?

...Where?

[natty bumppo 297]

With the economy hitting the skids, a moratorium on immigration, in general, is probably the last thing we need.

why ?

Why what why why why?

How?

Who?

...Where?

Oh ... another proponent of non answers ... oh wait ... I knew that

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

With the economy hitting the skids, a moratorium on immigration, in general, is probably the last thing we need.

why ?

Why what why why why?

How?

Who?

...Where?

Again ... simple question ... why?

Please explain.

No

[natty bumppo 297]

With the economy hitting the skids, a moratorium on immigration, in general, is probably the last thing we need.

why ?

Why what why why why?

How?

Who?

...Where?

Again ... simple question ... why?

Please explain.

No

So the statement ... is not supported .. and is meaningless

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

With the economy hitting the skids, a moratorium on immigration, in general, is probably the last thing we need.

why ?

Why what why why why?

How?

Who?

...Where?

Again ... simple question ... why?

Please explain.

No

So the statement ... is not supported .. and is meaningless

Oh I support it. I just don't care to discuss well... anything... with you.

...

...

...

...

...

Ooh-er Missus

[natty bumppo 297]

With the economy hitting the skids, a moratorium on immigration, in general, is probably the last thing we need.

why ?

Why what why why why?

How?

Who?

...Where?

Again ... simple question ... why?

Please explain.

No

So the statement ... is not supported .. and is meaningless

Oh I support it. I just don't care to discuss well... anything... with you.

...

...

...

...

...

Ooh-er Missus

then ... you can simple ignore my posts ... and not respond (spam... harass)

Edited January 20, 2008 by Natty Bumppo

[rebeccajo 14]

Here Natty - This doesn't answer your question specifically but if you take 15 minutes to watch the link, it might key you in to just how complicated the whole issue really is.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid348471183

[natty bumppo 297]

Here Natty - This doesn't answer your question specifically but if you take 15 minutes to watch the link, it might key you in to just how complicated the whole issue really is.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid348471183

RJ

Before I go read the link ... first I want to say ... thanks for a civil response

Now to follow the link .....

[natty bumppo 297]

Here Natty - This doesn't answer your question specifically but if you take 15 minutes to watch the link, it might key you in to just how complicated the whole issue really is.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid348471183

RJ

Before I go read the link ... first I want to say ... thanks for a civil response

Now to follow the link .....

It is a complicated issue ... that's a given.

So the question is ... what does the host country (USA) want to accomplish with (legal) immigration?

[peejay 327]

rebecca,

anyone who sets aside "immigrants who entered since 1970 and their descendants" has a race-based agenda. as everyone knows, the primary change in immigration post-1970 was the racial background of the immigrants. the only reason anyone would single out 1970 is race.

But it's a hidden agenda that a lot of good people are getting sucked in by.

That's total bullshit. Look at the numbers and where we are going. Why is it that people that whine about race love to play the race card when all else fails? US immigration policy is not about racial engineering to create your vision of what America should be. A lot of prosperous countries have little or no immigration. Immigration is not mandatory. It is a privilege...not a right. The USA does not have to accomodate the world and should not have an open border. Maybe you think it does...a lot of Americans do not. It's our country isn't it? Or do we just let the corporations, illegal aliens, and foreign governments decide US immigration policy?

Immigration numbers are way too high and illegal immigration is out of control. So what if 80+% of the illegal aliens are your so called "Brown people"? Their skin color does not give them the right to break our laws and to be rewarded for doing it. Are we supposed to let it slide just for appearances and continue on a course that is not in the best interests of the USA? I don't see it that way. A whole lot of Americans don't see it that way either.

BTW...the USA severely cut immigration in 1924. It needs to happen again.

Speaking of agendas...why don't you spell out yours? Rather than taking cheap shots, making accuasations, or tossing around innuendo.

AJ has his beliefs and I have mine. I would say they are slightly different. He appears to be more convinced the issue is race-based than I do. After some enlightened discussions and thinking about it, my personal opinion is much of the anti-illegal rhetoric is more nativist than racist. So I don't necessarily think you are 'skeered of brown people' but I do think your beliefs are bigoted towards anyone who isn't born here - perhaps even those whose parents were not. And frankly I can't abide that.

My only agenda is to expose the foundation of your beliefs for where they come from. If they come from an organization that basically is opposed to immigration of any kind, then I believe the readers here need to know that. This is, after all, a website full of people who either are immigrants or are married to one. If those same organizations are lead or were created by people who have (at the heart of their agenda) a true racist bent, then that is relevant also in my opinion.

You posted the graphs and you posted the links, Peejay. If you didn't want people to follow them then you shouldn't have put them up.

You have yet to dispute the numbers or to prove they are inaccurate. The charts appear to be very accurate. In fact, the numbers are likely higher than shown. NumbersUSA, F.A.I.R., Center for Immigration Studies, etc. are well respected sources of research and information often quoted in mainstream media reports and in testimony before US Congress. They are a hell of a lot more accurate than the cliches, myths, and one line sound bites that get thrown around to justify the insane immigration policies (or lack of them) that we find ourselves in today. So what if their sources of income are not 100% pristine in your eyes? The same can be said of the Republican Party, Democratic Party, and many of their candidates' sources of income as well.

I'm just pointing out where we are heading in the graphics. As I've stated many, many times...IMO the numbers are way too high. A lot of myths, cliches, and misconceptions get thrown around that fall like a house of cards when the facts get presented graphically to the ignorant. It wakes people up to reality instead of lame cliches.

Facts are facts...no matter whether you like or agree with the source or not. Let people decide by looking at the facts.

So you like throwing rocks at other people's glass houses, but don't want any rocks thrown at yours? You want to "expose" others, but don't want yourself exposed. That says it all right there sister. EoM!

[mawilson 2,133]

1. The 12 million illegal immigrants now here will have to go home.

2. They will not get any legal status while here that allows them to remain long-term.

3. Once in their home countries, they may apply for re-admittance to the U.S. as immigrants, visitors or temporary workers through normal channels.

So he's saying he'll institute a guest worker program.

Some people call that amnesty.

I don't think he's saying that:

5. There will be no new categories or programs through which they may re-enter the U.S.