Immigrants go home for holidays

[one...two...tree 2,762]

99% of the illegals I know have higher moral values than the US Citizens I know.

I hate to be harsh, but that doesn't bode well for any of the people you associate with.

Merry Christmas to you again, peejay.

And a Happy New Year!

I know you don't agree with my point of view or my posts, but I don't take it personal nor do I hold any ill will toward you. I have a thick skin and strong shoulders...so lay it on. I wouldn't post my views if I didn't believe I was right. Apparently my posts have been on target or you wouldn't be singling me out of the rest of the crowd. Unfortunately a lot of what goes on in our country is imposed without public oversight. Ignorance is bliss. The less ignorant our country is...the better off we all are IMO. Unfortunately there are some that would prefer ignorance. That way THEY get what THEY want without any opposition.

You do not have to agree with me nor do you have to read my posts. Whether I have my say on VJ is dictated by ToS. But I can assure you that I do a lot more in regards to this subject than just post on VJ.

Actually, when I came on you had just posted two different threads about the same subject. So I wasn't singling you out - I just noticed a repeat of a similar pattern.

Here's the point I'd like to make. I don't vehemenently disagree with you. Sure, I don't agree with all your opinions. The world would be BORING if we all agreed. I'm not a supporter of illegal entry and I don't think those who post along with me are.

There was a thread here yesterday about workplace enforcement. I forget the political term applied to the social phenomen the article says is occuring - illegal entrants returning 'home' because they can't find work in the US. The point of the article is that many 'amnesty' groups don't like this phenomen. Well, that may be the case but it isn't the case with me, and it probably isn't the case with many people who have studied the subject. I have long maintained that if normal economic patterns were allowed to work themselves out on normal human beings, the 'weaker' immigrants would return home and the 'strong' would stay here. If workplace enforcement is part of the equation, then so be it. The only 'negative' I see to workplace enforcement is that over time, we as USC's might likely be asked to produce a document to prove who we are also - say a birth certificate. That prospect doesn't particularly thrill me, but our society is more and more invasive all the time, so I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't come to pass as a side result of us trying to deter illegal employment.

What upsets me is the constant clanging of the gong regarding 'illegals' as if they were some particular breed of undesireables. I believe that as each of us has a story, each person who stands at arms-length with the Department of Homeland Security has a story also. It's actually that simple with me and the continual drum of 'send them home packing' is grossly unfair, in my opinion.

On VJ, I think you find an easy audience for arguments against illegals. What you have on hand is a bunch of people who are pi$$ed off at the service anyway. Pi$$ed off for paying fees, long delays, invasions of their private life. It's easy to whoop them up into a frenzy over other people who are 'getting away' with living in America without going through the system. Illegals are hardly 'getting away' with anything. They live in the shadows. Our spouses don't.

I think if you feel strongly about this, then you should be doing more than posting in this community. That's what our constitution was written for, and that's something as an American I am proud of. In my own case, I was careful to select an organization that is working for the good of legal entrants, rather than 'against' those here illegally. That just happens to be the way I'd rather approach the problem - hopefully if the Service and laws work better, the need to enter illegally will eventually end.

Excellent post.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Illegals are hardly 'getting away' with anything.

They're actually getting away with a lot. Example: You show up in court for your traffic violations, don't you? Kinda have to so not to lose your driving privileges. You think illegal aliens show up in court? Fat chance. And then, of course, they're getting away with the billions they cost this nation year in and year out. To say that they ain't getting away with anything might make you feel better but it is not quite accurate.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I don't have to be God to have an opinion and express it, rebeccajo. You don't have to agree with it, but you implied that your stance makes you superior, so, maybe you're God?

Are you so tired and bored that you have to come here to liven up your day by judging other while admonishing us for not agreeing with you, then proceed to ASSume that those of us who post here do nothing more with our passion than post here? I do plenty more than that. People like us are one of the main reasons illegal lovers haven't been able to force their twisted agenda down the throats of law abiding legals. And we vote, so our opinion counts! Our politicians are getting the message; you should too.

Same goes for Steven.

Consider ANTI-ILLEGAL immigration threads to be the cost of being on a LEGAL immigration board, and be content to share the space with those for whom this issue matters. my thoughts to you is if you don't like 'em, don't read 'em. They certainly don't bring out the best in you.

Really? Who died and appointed you God?

If you can get self-righteous, others can too. Don't put out statements you dont want commented on, cause you should know by now, they will be commented on. I have every right to access moral value of people based on their behavior. I dont have to meet them all. There is a difference between right and wrong; a standard of morality every woman knows if she is cheated on, for example.

There are avenues to take to renew a visa under circumstances such as you describe. No need to become illegal.

Edited December 24, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Empress of Groovy 373]

Goodness, it sounds like everyone needs a little good cheer, fondue, Cool Whip, synthetic fabrics, and M*A*S*H chatter.

Come on over to Dear Joyce here on VJ!

Love,

Joyce

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Goodness, it sounds like everyone needs a little good cheer, fondue, Cool Whip, synthetic fabrics, and M*A*S*H chatter.

Come on over to Dear Joyce here on VJ!

Love,

Joyce

Thank you, Joyce. The stores were running out of Cool Whip today for goodness sake. BTW, my mom use to serve us up some Cool Whip on top of a Sarah Lee pound cake...both from the frozen aisle, of course.

[GaryC 7]

99% of the illegals I know have higher moral values than the US Citizens I know.

I hate to be harsh, but that doesn't bode well for any of the people you associate with.

Merry Christmas to you again, peejay.

And a Happy New Year!

I know you don't agree with my point of view or my posts, but I don't take it personal nor do I hold any ill will toward you. I have a thick skin and strong shoulders...so lay it on. I wouldn't post my views if I didn't believe I was right. Apparently my posts have been on target or you wouldn't be singling me out of the rest of the crowd. Unfortunately a lot of what goes on in our country is imposed without public oversight. Ignorance is bliss. The less ignorant our country is...the better off we all are IMO. Unfortunately there are some that would prefer ignorance. That way THEY get what THEY want without any opposition.

You do not have to agree with me nor do you have to read my posts. Whether I have my say on VJ is dictated by ToS. But I can assure you that I do a lot more in regards to this subject than just post on VJ.

Actually, when I came on you had just posted two different threads about the same subject. So I wasn't singling you out - I just noticed a repeat of a similar pattern.

Here's the point I'd like to make. I don't vehemenently disagree with you. Sure, I don't agree with all your opinions. The world would be BORING if we all agreed. I'm not a supporter of illegal entry and I don't think those who post along with me are.

There was a thread here yesterday about workplace enforcement. I forget the political term applied to the social phenomen the article says is occuring - illegal entrants returning 'home' because they can't find work in the US. The point of the article is that many 'amnesty' groups don't like this phenomen. Well, that may be the case but it isn't the case with me, and it probably isn't the case with many people who have studied the subject. I have long maintained that if normal economic patterns were allowed to work themselves out on normal human beings, the 'weaker' immigrants would return home and the 'strong' would stay here. If workplace enforcement is part of the equation, then so be it. The only 'negative' I see to workplace enforcement is that over time, we as USC's might likely be asked to produce a document to prove who we are also - say a birth certificate. That prospect doesn't particularly thrill me, but our society is more and more invasive all the time, so I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't come to pass as a side result of us trying to deter illegal employment.

What upsets me is the constant clanging of the gong regarding 'illegals' as if they were some particular breed of undesireables. I believe that as each of us has a story, each person who stands at arms-length with the Department of Homeland Security has a story also. It's actually that simple with me and the continual drum of 'send them home packing' is grossly unfair, in my opinion.

On VJ, I think you find an easy audience for arguments against illegals. What you have on hand is a bunch of people who are pi$$ed off at the service anyway. Pi$$ed off for paying fees, long delays, invasions of their private life. It's easy to whoop them up into a frenzy over other people who are 'getting away' with living in America without going through the system. Illegals are hardly 'getting away' with anything. They live in the shadows. Our spouses don't.

I think if you feel strongly about this, then you should be doing more than posting in this community. That's what our constitution was written for, and that's something as an American I am proud of. In my own case, I was careful to select an organization that is working for the good of legal entrants, rather than 'against' those here illegally. That just happens to be the way I'd rather approach the problem - hopefully if the Service and laws work better, the need to enter illegally will eventually end.

Becca, I understand that you are getting tired of seeing multiple threads on the same thing. But peoples "clanging of the gongs" is what is necessary to get the powers to be to take notice. I know that what goes on in VJ probably doesn't make any difference in the long run but you can look at it as an outlet for the frustration some of us feel. For too long the government has turned a blind eye to the problem and has totally dropped the ball on the whole situation. So when we see a victory, no matter how small, we feel like pointing it out. I doubt if any of us that advocate enforcement take any joy in individuals pain caused by stories like this, it's just we have run out of so called "compassion" for these people. It is in the name of compassion that the situation has gotten out of control and some wish to let it continue to be out of control in the name of compassion. In order to transition to a mind set of not allowing the continuing flaunting of our laws we need to take a zero tolerance stance. It seems if we give inch to some groups they take the whole yardstick and ask for more. Most of us are just fed up and demand changes.

[rebeccajo 14]

Shame on you, GEG, for getting irritated when someone with an opposing viewpoint from yours employs the same tactics you regularly employ.

I don't have to be God to have an opinion and express it, rebeccajo. You don't have to agree with it, but you implied that your stance makes you superior, so, maybe you're God?

Are you so tired and bored that you have to come here to liven up your day by judging other while admonishing us for not agreeing with you, then proceed to ASSume that those of us who post here do nothing more with our passion than post here? I do plenty more than that. People like us are one of the main reasons illegal lovers haven't been able to force their twisted agenda down the throats of law abiding legals. And we vote, so our opinion counts! Our politicians are getting the message; you should too.

Same goes for Steven.

Consider ANTI-ILLEGAL immigration threads to be the cost of being on a LEGAL immigration board, and be content to share the space with those for whom this issue matters. my thoughts to you is if you don't like 'em, don't read 'em. They certainly don't bring out the best in you.

Really? Who died and appointed you God?

If you can get self-righteous, others can too. Don't put out statements you dont want commented on, cause you should know by now, they will be commented on. I have every right to access moral value of people based on their behavior. I dont have to meet them all. There is a difference between right and wrong; a standard of morality every woman knows if she is cheated on, for example.

There are avenues to take to renew a visa under circumstances such as you describe. No need to become illegal.

Taken out of context from the paragraph, Reinhard.

Illegals are hardly 'getting away' with anything.

They're actually getting away with a lot. Example: You show up in court for your traffic violations, don't you? Kinda have to so not to lose your driving privileges. You think illegal aliens show up in court? Fat chance. And then, of course, they're getting away with the billions they cost this nation year in and year out. To say that they ain't getting away with anything might make you feel better but it is not quite accurate.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Shame on you, GEG, for getting irritated when someone with an opposing viewpoint from yours employs the same tactics you regularly employ.

I'm hardly irritated, rebeccajo, but it's been pointed out to you by several posters now that this topic (not I) clearly makes you show your a$$. I feel no shame. I have a position, I support it, I believe in it, and I don't whine and boo hoo about being tired and bored because others don't share my view. You obviously need something to spice up your boring existance. Stay and complain about everyone else all you want. That I respond to you with the truth as I see it is no indication that you or anyone else has been given the power to irritate me.

I do, however, hope you soon get around to enjoying your holiday and finding a way to honor your beliefs, coz you're not doing that here.

Have a great day!

Edited December 24, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Sofiyya 1,687]

BY the way, rj. I can take your employment of what you call "my tactics", as your endorsement of them, I'm sure. However, I will not return the favor by implementing your methodology of becoming pitifully shrill and demanding censorship on a public forum because I'm bored with a subject. Sorry.

But, overall, I think we have all been quite civil to you, considering the context and your bold assumptions against us lazy kvetchers, you being the super activist and all. Show some mercy, willya.

[Craneman 2]

be careful GEG

You will invoke the rath of Mother Theresa.

BY the way, rj. I can take your employment of what you call "my tactics", as your endorsement of them, I'm sure. However, I will not return the favor by implementing your methodology of becoming pitifully shrill and demanding censorship on a public forum because I'm bored with a subject. Sorry.

But, overall, I think we have all been quite civil to you, considering the context and your bold assumptions against us lazy kvetchers, you being the super activist and all. Show some mercy, willya.

[rebeccajo 14]

I realize you want change, Gary. All I'd ask any of you to do is be careful what you ask for, because when the bargaining chips started getting laid out on the tables in Washington, there will be compromise and there will be deals made.

The INA breaks up immigrants into two classes - immigrant and non-immigrant. It's as if somebody tried to carve human beings in two - they are either here for an 'intended purpose' such as working for a specific employer or attend university, or they are here as part of a family unit. Conceptually, it's a bit ridiculous because no real-life person belongs only in one category or the other.

The last attempt our government made at 'fixing the problem' had a proposal in it to grade immigrants to this country by a point system. The more 'desireable' immigrants would speak English fluently. They would have an education and the 'better' their education the more points they received. A certain score would have to be reached for them to come here legally.

Now - just where do you think Luz and Robin might have fallen on that scale? My husband - an English speaker but one with no equivalent of a US college degree? Would they have been able to earn enough 'points' to pass the hurdle?

Who knows? It didn't pass. For now. It's just a rhetorical question on my part anyway and only offered up as a way to hopefully make you see that our government cannot carve up this complex pie and NOT affect those of us who love a foreign born person and want to bring them here to live with us.

Becca, I understand that you are getting tired of seeing multiple threads on the same thing. But peoples "clanging of the gongs" is what is necessary to get the powers to be to take notice. I know that what goes on in VJ probably doesn't make any difference in the long run but you can look at it as an outlet for the frustration some of us feel. For too long the government has turned a blind eye to the problem and has totally dropped the ball on the whole situation. So when we see a victory, no matter how small, we feel like pointing it out. I doubt if any of us that advocate enforcement take any joy in individuals pain caused by stories like this, it's just we have run out of so called "compassion" for these people. It is in the name of compassion that the situation has gotten out of control and some wish to let it continue to be out of control in the name of compassion. In order to transition to a mind set of not allowing the continuing flaunting of our laws we need to take a zero tolerance stance. It seems if we give inch to some groups they take the whole yardstick and ask for more. Most of us are just fed up and demand changes.

[rebeccajo 14]

You're sitting here too, darling.

Shame on you, GEG, for getting irritated when someone with an opposing viewpoint from yours employs the same tactics you regularly employ.

I'm hardly irritated, rebeccajo, but it's been pointed out to you by several posters now that this topic (not I) clearly makes you show your a$$. I feel no shame. I have a position, I support it, I believe in it, and I don't whine and boo hoo about being tired and bored because others don't share my view. You obviously need something to spice up your boring existance. Stay and complain about everyone else all you want. That I respond to you with the truth as I see it is no indication that you or anyone else has been given the power to irritate me.

I do, however, hope you soon get around to enjoying your holiday and finding a way to honor your beliefs, coz you're not doing that here.

Have a great day!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

We are asking the government to enforce the law, rj, not to carve up human beings. The slippery slope you envison has already been achieved, which is why we have a problem. We discern some and let others illegality go. Discern them all, we say, and those found to be wanting because they chose to thumb their noses at our borders and our sovereignty be gone.

It's not so complex. We used to do this. Compassion for illegals is to show them the door. Let them make their own governments give them what our tax dollars can no longer afford.

So, rj, you are sitting there, too, employing "my" tactics, too.

You are becoming me. Enjoy!

Ok, so you be me while I'm gone. Got a meeting to get to. Toodles.

You're sitting here too, darling.

Shame on you, GEG, for getting irritated when someone with an opposing viewpoint from yours employs the same tactics you regularly employ.

I'm hardly irritated, rebeccajo, but it's been pointed out to you by several posters now that this topic (not I) clearly makes you show your a$$. I feel no shame. I have a position, I support it, I believe in it, and I don't whine and boo hoo about being tired and bored because others don't share my view. You obviously need something to spice up your boring existance. Stay and complain about everyone else all you want. That I respond to you with the truth as I see it is no indication that you or anyone else has been given the power to irritate me.

I do, however, hope you soon get around to enjoying your holiday and finding a way to honor your beliefs, coz you're not doing that here.

Have a great day!

Edited December 24, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[rebeccajo 14]

There goes that great big ego again.

Enjoy your meeting. And while your in it, try really hard not to chase your own tail. Because the ability to do that very thing also gives you the ability to lick your own a$$.

We are asking the government to enforce the law, rj, not to carve up human beings. The slippery slope you envison has already been achieved, which is why we have a problem. We discern some and let others illegality go. Discern them all, we say, and those found to be wanting because they chose to thumb their noses at our borders and our sovereignty be gone.

It's not so complex. We used to do this. Compassion for illegals is to show them the door. Let them make their own governments give them what our tax dollars can no longer afford.

So, rj, you are sitting there, too, employing "my" tactics, too.

You are becoming me. Enjoy!

Ok, so you be me while I'm gone. Got a meeting to get to. Toodles.

You're sitting here too, darling.

Shame on you, GEG, for getting irritated when someone with an opposing viewpoint from yours employs the same tactics you regularly employ.

I'm hardly irritated, rebeccajo, but it's been pointed out to you by several posters now that this topic (not I) clearly makes you show your a$$. I feel no shame. I have a position, I support it, I believe in it, and I don't whine and boo hoo about being tired and bored because others don't share my view. You obviously need something to spice up your boring existance. Stay and complain about everyone else all you want. That I respond to you with the truth as I see it is no indication that you or anyone else has been given the power to irritate me.

I do, however, hope you soon get around to enjoying your holiday and finding a way to honor your beliefs, coz you're not doing that here.

Have a great day!

[Craneman 2]

Speaking of egos.

There goes that great big ego again.

Enjoy your meeting. And while your in it, try really hard not to chase your own tail. Because the ability to do that very thing also gives you the ability to lick your own a$$.

We are asking the government to enforce the law, rj, not to carve up human beings. The slippery slope you envison has already been achieved, which is why we have a problem. We discern some and let others illegality go. Discern them all, we say, and those found to be wanting because they chose to thumb their noses at our borders and our sovereignty be gone.

It's not so complex. We used to do this. Compassion for illegals is to show them the door. Let them make their own governments give them what our tax dollars can no longer afford.

So, rj, you are sitting there, too, employing "my" tactics, too.

You are becoming me. Enjoy!

Ok, so you be me while I'm gone. Got a meeting to get to. Toodles.

You're sitting here too, darling.

Shame on you, GEG, for getting irritated when someone with an opposing viewpoint from yours employs the same tactics you regularly employ.

I'm hardly irritated, rebeccajo, but it's been pointed out to you by several posters now that this topic (not I) clearly makes you show your a$$. I feel no shame. I have a position, I support it, I believe in it, and I don't whine and boo hoo about being tired and bored because others don't share my view. You obviously need something to spice up your boring existance. Stay and complain about everyone else all you want. That I respond to you with the truth as I see it is no indication that you or anyone else has been given the power to irritate me.

I do, however, hope you soon get around to enjoying your holiday and finding a way to honor your beliefs, coz you're not doing that here.

Have a great day!