Dan T

i think bho is very good at fooling people into thinking he is listening to all sides, but at the end of the day he is nothing more than a pretty faced, articulate, brainwashed disguised as educated puppet for the brothers emmanuel, rev right, and mr weather underground. on his own though i think he hates this country, hates our constitution and has no solidly held convictions of his own creation. the appearance that he cares one iota for bipartisan input is pure fantasy.

were really addressing several issues here that are getting obsured by the focus on spanish speakers. several questions really have to be asked.
number 1 for me is are they in our country in accordance with the currently existing laws, if not i dont give a damn what their native language is regardless of my fondness for their country/culture of origin my uniform response is "GET THE HELL OUT!" and come back when youre ready to follow the law. Am I an advocate for changing our laws? absolutely, but that does not reduce my anger towards those that ignored the ones that we have currently especially considering what I have had to go through in regards to my irish born wife. this also applies to work authorization, proper documentation, paying taxes etc.
number 2, should rightfully be under a sepreate thread to this one, and is actually a 3 parter and for me and takes in 1 factor of how willing you are to assimilate once you arrive and 2 is how long have you lived here continuously and 3 is how long do you intend to stay. Does assimilation mean that you completely discard the language/culture into which you were born and of which you may rightfully be exceedingly proud? not by my definition it doesnt, diversity is to be treasured. It does, however, mean that an immigrant make their best effort, and I realize not all people are equally intellectually equiped so there is some major degree of wiggle room on this measurement, to learn the language and act in accordance with the culture of the host country sufficient to interact with its native born citizens. I generally reserve my most severe anger for people who have lived here for 5 or more uninterrupted years and continue to choose to only associate with people from their own country of origin, shop only in the shops that cater to that country, and speak only the native language of that country. someone who just arrived last week, again I refer to the wiggle room, or plans to only live here for a few months I have much more tollerance of. do I feel that it adds to my life experience to interact with people who are, by accudent of birth, from a different culture/speak a different language than myself? you bet i do. that doesnt change the fact that i want to kick out as quickly as posible the people who have no notion of making the same effort.

were really addressing several issues here that are getting obsured by the focus on spanish speakers. several questions really have to be asked.
number 1 for me is are they in our country in accordance with the currently existing laws, if not i dont give a damn what their native language is regardless of my fondness for their country/culture of origin my uniform response is "GET THE HELL OUT!" and come back when youre ready to follow the law. Am I an advocate for changing our laws? absolutely, but that does not reduce my anger towards those that ignored the ones that we have currently especially considering what I have had to go through in regards to my irish born wife. this also applies to work authorization, proper documentation, paying taxes etc.
number 2, should rightfully be under a sepreate thread to this one, and is actually a 3 parter and for me and takes in 1 factor of how willing you are to assimilate once you arrive and 2 is how long have you lived here continuously and 3 is how long do you intend to stay. Does assimilation mean that you completely discard the language/culture into which you were born and of which you may rightfully be exceedingly proud? not by my definition it doesnt, diversity is to be treasured. It does, however, mean that an immigrant make their best effort, and I realize not all people are equally intellectually equiped so there is some major degree of wiggle room on this measurement, to learn the language and act in accordance with the culture of the host country sufficient to interact with its native born citizens. I generally reserve my most severe anger for people who have lived here for 5 or more uninterrupted years and continue to choose to only associate with people from their own country of origin, shop only in the shops that cater to that country, and speak only the native language of that country. someone who just arrived last week, again I refer to the wiggle room, or plans to only live here for a few months I have much more tollerance of. do I feel that it adds to my life experience to interact with people who are, by accudent of birth, from a different culture/speak a different language than myself? you bet i do. that doesnt change the fact that i want to kick out as quickly as posible the people who have no notion of making the same effort.

never, and i do literally mean never as in not once, met a chinese, a german or a nigerian in america that didnt speak english, I have only to go to the convenience store around the corner to find a clerk behind the counter, thats lived here for 5 years, with not enough english for me to order a sandwhich.

asked him? in what language exactly am i supposed to ask him in? and what good is turning in 1 guy or even 100, hell make it 1 mil when the flood is endless thanks to the defacto open boarder policy in place

I see plenty of threads about the whether or not this health care bill is constitutional. It occured to me though that the question that should be asked is do you really give a darn if the constitution is shreded in order to "extend health insurance to 30 million people that don't currently have it". Im not looking for an argument on whether this bill acheives that goal, or if that number is even an accurate account of people who want coverage but can't get it. I'm asking hypothetically if this bill, or portions of it, were found to be unconstitutional how many of you would say screw it, it helps a lot of people, sure shred the constitution I don't really care about a 230+ year piece of paper.

additionally do we know for a fact that all 59 dems voted to confirm? After all it was primarily disagreements among dems that held up the health care bill. I just don't see why people jump to bho's defense, in the manner of "listen to how well spoken and articulate he is, and look at how cool he is, he couldn't possibly be lying to us" when people scream out that he's lying to us. I have no doubt at all that this will not be the last time we have stark evidence staring right at us of an obama lie, it certainly isnt the first.

well yeah thats a given

I see plenty of threads about the whether or not this health care bill is constitutional. It occured to me though that the question that should be asked is do you really give a darn if the constitution is shreded in order to "extend health insurance to 30 million people that don't currently have it". Im not looking for an argument on whether this bill acheives that goal, or if that number is even an accurate account of people who want coverage but can't get it. I'm asking hypothetically if this bill, or portions of it, were found to be unconstitutional how many of you would say screw it, it helps a lot of people, sure shred the constitution I don't really care about a 230+ year piece of paper.

I see plenty of threads about the whether or not this health care bill is constitutional. It occured to me though that the question that should be asked is do you really give a darn if the constitution is shreded in order to "extend health insurance to 30 million people that don't currently have it". Im not looking for an argument on whether this bill acheives that goal, or if that number is even an accurate account of people who want coverage but can't get it. I'm asking hypothetically if this bill, or portions of it, were found to be unconstitutional how many of you would say screw it, it helps a lot of people, sure shred the constitution I don't really care about a 230+ year piece of paper.

to be fair the sellout began long before the wrecking ball came into public eye, and even before the best parts of him ended up as a stain on the mattress

I am going on the assumption that the overwhelming majority of people on this site have gone through a arduous and expensive legal process to obtain legitimate immigration status to the USA. I myself have spent between 3 and 4 thousand on the process.
I just wanted to hear what thoughts or feelings are generally held by members of this site towards those who either snuck into the country completely or willfully over stayed their tourist visa in order to reap the financial and quality of life benefits offered by this country. this includes people that come for a holiday in a ruse designed to give birth to their child on us soil and insist on being allowed to stay because their child has birthright citizenship. ireland has revoked this right in 2002 and i believe that the us should do the same.
my personal feeling towards them is that they are a burden to be expunged and/or imprisoned in most cases. I think their action stains the value of the process that we all went through and i personally have zero compassion for any one who is kick out on their #######.
that being said, i have also heard of plenty of people that did go through the same process as me and my wife have that were denied because of a brain damaged processing agent at uscis. these people do everything above boards and bend over backwards to comply with the rediculous set of laws that are in place and yet are still punished with deportation due to a technicality. I fear, perhaps unjustifiably, that incompetancy at uscis could claim me as a victim and so i therefore have endless sympathy for anyone who has been kicked out after having done everything that was asked of them.
I recall a case involving a croat woman that married a former us soldier after the bosnia conflict. when the call was sent out for volunteers to go to iraq, out of his inner sense of patriotism, the husband had an inner calling to re-enlist and serve his country in the war on terror. in 2002 they scheduled their interview which was supposed to take place in 2003(sorry I dont have the dates exact). The husband was killed in action defending this country before the scheduled date of the interview. Because they missed their interview uscis/ice initiated deportation precedings against a woman that had lived here for 10 years and had 2 children with her us citizen husband who died honorably in service to his country for a cause he believed in. The long drawn out battle eventually brought the woman to court with the parents of the fallen soldier in her corner fighting on her behalf. The court decided in her favor and allowed her to stay. In their infinite wisdom the USCIS appealed the court decision and resumed deportation preceedings. I do not have the ending of this story but in my story boook world this lady was rightfully granted residency and allowed to persue citizenship, however, as we all know story books dont often allign with real life. My heart goes out to people who are put in these situations.

Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self-insure!!
Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.
Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!
Page 42 of HC Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!
Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.
Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances & a 'National ID Health card' will be issued! (Papers please!)
Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer. (Time for more cash and carry)
Page 65 Sec 164: Is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community organizations: (ACORN).
Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the 'Exchange.'
Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans -- The Govt will ration your health care!
Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. (Translation: illegal aliens.)
Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups (i.e. ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.
Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. (AARP members - your health care WILL be rationed!)
Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. (No choice.)
Page 12 4 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt monopoly.
Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what salary you can make.
Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. (NO choice!)
Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part-time employees ANDtheir families. (Employees shouldn't get excited about this as employers will be forced to reduce its work force, benefits, and wages/salaries to cover such a huge expense.)
Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option will pay 8% tax on all payroll! (See the last comment in parenthesis.)
Page 150 Lines 9-13: A business with payroll between $251K & $401K who doesn't provide public option will pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.
Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.
Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.) (Like always)
Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of the GOVT HC Admin.. will have access to ALL Americans' finances and personal records. (I guess so they can 'deduct' their fees)
Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." (Yes, it really says that!) ( a 'fee' instead)
Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors. (Low-income and the poor are affected.)
Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors: It doesn't matter what specialty you have trained yourself in -- you will all be paid the same! (Just TRY to tell me that's not Socialism!)
Page 253 Line 10-18: The Govt sets the value of a doctor's time, profession, judgment, etc. (Literally-- the value of humans.)
Page 265 Sec 1131: The Govt mandates and controls productivity for "private" HC industries.
Page 268 Sec 1141: The federal Govt regulates the rental and purchase of power driven wheelchairs.
Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!
Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever the Govt deems preventable (i.e...re-admissions).
Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors: If you treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -- the Govt will penalize you.
Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. (The Govt tells doctors what and how much they can own!)
Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion. (The Govt is mandating that hospitals cannot expand.)
Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have the opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. (Can you say ACORN?)
Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: The Govt mandates establishment of=2 outcome-based measures. (HC the way they want -- rationing.)
Page 341 Lines 3-9: The Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. (Forcing people into the Govt plan)
Page 354 Sec 1177: The Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of 'special needs people!' Unbelievable!
Page 379 Sec 1191: The Govt creates more bureaucracy via a "Tele-Health Advisory Committee." (Can you say HC by phone?)
Page 425 Lines 4-12: The Govt mandates "Advance-Care Planning Consult." (Think senior citizens end-of-life patients.)
Page 425 Lines 17-19: The Govt will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. (And it's mandatory!)
Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: The Govt provides an "approved" list of end-of-life resources; guiding you in death. (Also called 'assisted suicide.')(Sounds like Soylent Green to me.)
Page 427 Lines 15-24: The Govt mandates a program for orders on "end-of-life." (The Govt has a say in how your life ends!)
Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced-care planning consultant" will be used frequently as a patient's health deteriorates.
Page 429 Lines 10-12: An "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end-of-life plans.. (AN ORDER TO DIE FROM THE GOVERNMENT?!?)
Page 429 Lines 13-25: The GOVT will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.. (I wouldn't want to stand before God after getting paid for THAT job!)
Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end-of-life! (Again -- no choice!)
Page 469: Community-Based Home Medical Services = Non-Profit Organizations. (Hello? ACORN Medical Services here!?!)
Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover marriage and family therapy. (Which means Govt will insert itself into your marriage even.)
Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, and rationing those services.

you called me out, i did simply cut and paste it. These are not my comments, and i never claimed to be anything when starting this thred, least of all original. I simply wanted to throw it out there and see what debate sprang up and over what issues. However, just because its not in the bill that passed this time doesnt mean it wont in the next one and that I should not still be mindful of those who would like to force us into servitude and tell me its for my own good.

for someone thats so familiar with them why dont you draw the parallels for us unwashed masses not worthy of your ivory tower

to be fair the sellout began long before the wrecking ball came into public eye, and even before the best parts of him ended up as a stain on the mattress

I am going on the assumption that the overwhelming majority of people on this site have gone through a arduous and expensive legal process to obtain legitimate immigration status to the USA. I myself have spent between 3 and 4 thousand on the process.
I just wanted to hear what thoughts or feelings are generally held by members of this site towards those who either snuck into the country completely or willfully over stayed their tourist visa in order to reap the financial and quality of life benefits offered by this country. this includes people that come for a holiday in a ruse designed to give birth to their child on us soil and insist on being allowed to stay because their child has birthright citizenship. ireland has revoked this right in 2002 and i believe that the us should do the same.
my personal feeling towards them is that they are a burden to be expunged and/or imprisoned in most cases. I think their action stains the value of the process that we all went through and i personally have zero compassion for any one who is kick out on their #######.
that being said, i have also heard of plenty of people that did go through the same process as me and my wife have that were denied because of a brain damaged processing agent at uscis. these people do everything above boards and bend over backwards to comply with the rediculous set of laws that are in place and yet are still punished with deportation due to a technicality. I fear, perhaps unjustifiably, that incompetancy at uscis could claim me as a victim and so i therefore have endless sympathy for anyone who has been kicked out after having done everything that was asked of them.
I recall a case involving a croat woman that married a former us soldier after the bosnia conflict. when the call was sent out for volunteers to go to iraq, out of his inner sense of patriotism, the husband had an inner calling to re-enlist and serve his country in the war on terror. in 2002 they scheduled their interview which was supposed to take place in 2003(sorry I dont have the dates exact). The husband was killed in action defending this country before the scheduled date of the interview. Because they missed their interview uscis/ice initiated deportation precedings against a woman that had lived here for 10 years and had 2 children with her us citizen husband who died honorably in service to his country for a cause he believed in. The long drawn out battle eventually brought the woman to court with the parents of the fallen soldier in her corner fighting on her behalf. The court decided in her favor and allowed her to stay. In their infinite wisdom the USCIS appealed the court decision and resumed deportation preceedings. I do not have the ending of this story but in my story boook world this lady was rightfully granted residency and allowed to persue citizenship, however, as we all know story books dont often allign with real life. My heart goes out to people who are put in these situations.

for someone thats so familiar with them why dont you draw the parallels for us unwashed masses not worthy of your ivory tower

and lets not forget the free health care they will get

for someone thats so familiar with them why dont you draw the parallels for us unwashed masses not worthy of your ivory tower

for someone thats so familiar with them why dont you draw the parallels for us unwashed masses not worthy of your ivory tower

you called me out, i did simply cut and paste it. These are not my comments, and i never claimed to be anything when starting this thred, least of all original. I simply wanted to throw it out there and see what debate sprang up and over what issues. However, just because its not in the bill that passed this time doesnt mean it wont in the next one and that I should not still be mindful of those who would like to force us into servitude and tell me its for my own good.

and lets not forget the free health care they will get

to be fair the sellout began long before the wrecking ball came into public eye, and even before the best parts of him ended up as a stain on the mattress

Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self-insure!!
Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.
Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!
Page 42 of HC Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!
Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.
Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances & a 'National ID Health card' will be issued! (Papers please!)
Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer. (Time for more cash and carry)
Page 65 Sec 164: Is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community organizations: (ACORN).
Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the 'Exchange.'
Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans -- The Govt will ration your health care!
Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. (Translation: illegal aliens.)
Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups (i.e. ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.
Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. (AARP members - your health care WILL be rationed!)
Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. (No choice.)
Page 12 4 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt monopoly.
Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what salary you can make.
Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. (NO choice!)
Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part-time employees ANDtheir families. (Employees shouldn't get excited about this as employers will be forced to reduce its work force, benefits, and wages/salaries to cover such a huge expense.)
Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option will pay 8% tax on all payroll! (See the last comment in parenthesis.)
Page 150 Lines 9-13: A business with payroll between $251K & $401K who doesn't provide public option will pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.
Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.
Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.) (Like always)
Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of the GOVT HC Admin.. will have access to ALL Americans' finances and personal records. (I guess so they can 'deduct' their fees)
Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." (Yes, it really says that!) ( a 'fee' instead)
Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors. (Low-income and the poor are affected.)
Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors: It doesn't matter what specialty you have trained yourself in -- you will all be paid the same! (Just TRY to tell me that's not Socialism!)
Page 253 Line 10-18: The Govt sets the value of a doctor's time, profession, judgment, etc. (Literally-- the value of humans.)
Page 265 Sec 1131: The Govt mandates and controls productivity for "private" HC industries.
Page 268 Sec 1141: The federal Govt regulates the rental and purchase of power driven wheelchairs.
Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!
Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever the Govt deems preventable (i.e...re-admissions).
Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors: If you treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -- the Govt will penalize you.
Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. (The Govt tells doctors what and how much they can own!)
Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion. (The Govt is mandating that hospitals cannot expand.)
Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have the opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. (Can you say ACORN?)
Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: The Govt mandates establishment of=2 outcome-based measures. (HC the way they want -- rationing.)
Page 341 Lines 3-9: The Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. (Forcing people into the Govt plan)
Page 354 Sec 1177: The Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of 'special needs people!' Unbelievable!
Page 379 Sec 1191: The Govt creates more bureaucracy via a "Tele-Health Advisory Committee." (Can you say HC by phone?)
Page 425 Lines 4-12: The Govt mandates "Advance-Care Planning Consult." (Think senior citizens end-of-life patients.)
Page 425 Lines 17-19: The Govt will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. (And it's mandatory!)
Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: The Govt provides an "approved" list of end-of-life resources; guiding you in death. (Also called 'assisted suicide.')(Sounds like Soylent Green to me.)
Page 427 Lines 15-24: The Govt mandates a program for orders on "end-of-life." (The Govt has a say in how your life ends!)
Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced-care planning consultant" will be used frequently as a patient's health deteriorates.
Page 429 Lines 10-12: An "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end-of-life plans.. (AN ORDER TO DIE FROM THE GOVERNMENT?!?)
Page 429 Lines 13-25: The GOVT will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.. (I wouldn't want to stand before God after getting paid for THAT job!)
Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end-of-life! (Again -- no choice!)
Page 469: Community-Based Home Medical Services = Non-Profit Organizations. (Hello? ACORN Medical Services here!?!)
Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover marriage and family therapy. (Which means Govt will insert itself into your marriage even.)
Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, and rationing those services.