oldahmed

Hi All,

My fiancee is moving soon to the US on a K1 visa, we will be filling for AOS after getting married. She says that in the Czech Republic, they have different kinds of birth certificates. Does anyone know which one is the valid one for AOS?

Thanks.

I finally had my interview at montreal yesterday....after 5 months of waiting since I sent my packet 3 in!! It was easy and we were approved. My POE will be on the 13th of April. We have yet to set a wedding date, but I am sure that will happen in the next week or so!! I hope everyones journey is going well.

Congratulations Coleen.

Youtube Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC_BKDBbrHs

This post is a response to the original poster, not to make a point and not to argue with anyone:

Source: http://english.islamweb.net/ver2/Fatwa/Sho...;Option=FatwaId

Question

assalamu alaykum, i am working in a gulf country and i am from another country, i am 29 years old i met a man he went ask my hand to my father with 2 witnesses and he presented a gift. this man work in the military and they didnt give us approval to make a marriage contract in his country because they want him to marry only women of his own country. if we make this contract in my country than they will inform his ambassy which in turn will inform the military. we are now married without paper as he went to my father and read fatiha and 2 witnesses were there. how can we do the marriage contract??? and where and who can do it for us? please help

All perfect praise be to Allaah, The Lord of the Worlds. I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allaah, and that Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ) is His slave and Messenger.

The marriage contract is correct if some conditions are fulfilled, the most important of which are the consent of the guardian and the presence of two witnesses; for more benefit in this regard, please refer to Fatwa 82072.

So, if there is a proposal and acceptance between the two parties of the contract, who are the guardian and the husband, along with the presence of the witnesses, then the marriage contract is correct. It is not a condition for the marriage contract to take place in a particular place or to write official papers; the woman becomes the wife of the man, and announcing the marriage is desired and not an obligation.

However, if this marriage took place without authentication or announcement, it may lead to losing some rights in addition to what is mentioned in the question that the husband may be subjected to a punishment or brought to court, so it is more appropriate not to conclude this marriage. Nonetheless, since this marriage already took place, one should look for means in a way to avoid those disadvantages as much as possible.

Allaah Knows best.

Also check this link for Fatwa 82072 mentioned above: http://english.islamweb.net/ver2/Fatwa/Sho...;Option=FatwaId

Oldahmed is wrong and so are you, zahra. I'm not merely interested in the secular legality, I'm also very concerned about the spiritual legality. People say "all" that is required are the elements of a contract and witnesses, but that is simply not true and definitely not only my opinion.

How does it honor God for you to marry "Islamically", and then have to lie about it?

How does it honor God for you to have to marry twice because the psuedo-Islamic way wasn't good enough?

How does it honor God to pervert His intent for you to have an enforcable contract when it is not worth the promises offered or the paper it's written on?

Some of you have no patience or moderation in your dealings with the faith. You play it cheap for the thrill. You cannot justify marrying "Islamically" and having a do over because the first time wasn't as valid as the legal on you do after the visa.

If someone advised a woman here to do the reverse- do the marriage right, so they don't have to lie, then fudge on the visa process, o, the howling there would be. Obeying the laws of the US, and cheapening Islam's requirements is ok, tho. I wonder why.

"Some of you have no patience or moderation in your dealings with the faith"

"Oldahmed is wrong and so are you, zahra"

It seems to me that's you have no room for other opinions. It's your opinion and no other, even though you failed to prove that what you're saying is right. Even the link you gave contradicts you, but still everybody is wrong.

Oldahmed is wrong and so are you, zahra. I'm not merely interested in the secular legality, I'm also very concerned about the spiritual legality. People say "all" that is required are the elements of a contract and witnesses, but that is simply not true and definitely not only my opinion.

How does it honor God for you to marry "Islamically", and then have to lie about it?

How does it honor God for you to have to marry twice because the psuedo-Islamic way wasn't good enough?

How does it honor God to pervert His intent for you to have an enforcable contract when it is not worth the promises offered or the paper it's written on?

Some of you have no patience or moderation in your dealings with the faith. You play it cheap for the thrill. You cannot justify marrying "Islamically" and having a do over because the first time wasn't as valid as the legal on you do after the visa.

If someone advised a woman here to do the reverse- do the marriage right, so they don't have to lie, then fudge on the visa process, o, the howling there would be. Obeying the laws of the US, and cheapening Islam's requirements is ok, tho. I wonder why.

I stopped responding to you because my first post was to answer the original poster's question, then I figured out that at the course this thread is going, she will not get a clear view, thus better go check with a reliable source.

"How does it honor God for you to marry "Islamically", and then have to lie about it?"

You don't have to lie about it. There are two standards here, by the Islamic standards, the person is married. by the US standard he/she is not since what they recognize is the civil marriage.

"How does it honor God for you to have to marry twice because the pseudo-Islamic way wasn't good enough?"

In all Muslim countries I know of, you have to do the marriage ceremony twice, Islamic marriage, and civil marriage. This is done in the US two, isn't it? or enough for you the civil marriage?

"How does it honor God to pervert His intent for you to have an enforcable contract when it is not worth the promises offered or the paper it's written on?"

You still didn't answer my question from a previous post on what is an enforcable contract. I hope that since you mentioned that you have a PhD in Islamic studies, at least you use some Islamic arguments so that we understand on what you base your "opinion"

Islam is a religion of ease if you do things correctly. Advising people to do a ceremony that does not constitute a marriage they can admit to freely is not Islamic. Such a marriage, unless recognized in Egypt, will not allow her to file a K3 or a CR1. In order for it to be recognized in Egypt, it would have to be registered with the state. Even in the Prophet's time, when he was head of state, there were bureaucrats that he assigned to take care of such administrative duties. People don't know this because they tend to think they were primitive, but they were not. They kept records of the goings on in the ummah. A fine example of that is the ahadith. Mary and Joesph had to pay taxes and participate in a census.

So, what do you do when you have a "marriage" that you cannot share with immigration? You pretend not to be married, then come to the US and marry for real? In a masjid, when you should already be married in Islam? Or, in a secular ceremony, which you register with the state after all? Come on. Marriage is not something to be cavalier about. If you are bond by something you cannot admit to when it counts, you are not married "in the eyes of God". You are in a fantasy. Don't treat Islam as a fantasy you invent as you go along. Do it right the first time, then you won't have to ask if what you do instead is ok.

All what you're saying is your: opinion, assumption, and personal conclusions.

I know there are. I have been among them. My family is from Palestine. I am not a convert. I could be oldsofiyya lol

What I meant is: 1 Muslim/muslimah living among non Muslims in a remote village, where the closest mosque is at hundreds of miles.

Another thing, one important piece of advice offered when one does one of these "Islamic marriages", then files for a K1 is that they are to deny to immigration authorities at the visa interview that they are married. men have been advised to remove their wedding ring. They may say that they had a ceremony, but if they say they are married, that is a bad thing because they are applying for a fiance visa, not a spousal visa.

So, if the "Islamic marriage" is something to be denied, it is clearly not public, as required, and not sanctioned by God, because those things which Allah has sanctioned, we have no reason to hide or lie about.

Click here for a very reasoned answer that includes reasons to legalize your union to the state. Muslims are to obey the law of the land we are in. If we don't encourage each other to marry in ways that are legitimized by Muslim scholars in their areas of the Muslim world where we visit and want not to do haraam, why do we then turn around to guide and encourage each other to obey the immigration laws of the US to get a K1 visa and marry here?

Let's put aside what people say and advise. That's not the topic, and to put it in simple words:

You can't ask for a spouse visa while you are Islamically married because the US does not recognize it as a marriage, but Allah recognize it. People do this marriage to be considered married in the eyes of God.

It's true that Muslims should obey the law of the land they live in, and the person who is asking wants to do just that. This kind of marriage is recognized as such in Egypt, I believe, and then when they will get here with their K1 visa they will get married according to the laws of the US.

Islam is a religion of ease not hardship.

Let's put aside what people say and advise. That's not the topic, and to put it in simple words:

You can't ask for a spouse visa while you are Islamically married because the US does not recognize it as a marriage, but Allah recognize it. People do this marriage to be considered married in the eyes of God.

It's true that Muslims should obey the law of the land they live in, and the person who is asking wants to do just that. This kind of marriage is recognized as such in Egypt, I believe, and then when they will get here with their K1 visa they will get married according to the laws of the US.

Islam is a religion of ease not hardship.

Also from the link you gave: it is not ADVISABLE for anyone to get married without legal paper.

That's just what I said previously.

"Explain to us how your way offers protection and enforcement, also required by Allah. " I have no way, and it's not MY way. I think in my previous post I cited what most scholars consider an Islamic marriage.

Also you said that what I cited " It denies the glory of Islam, while elevating the importance of the requirements of a non-Muslim state over that of Allah," but actually what you are talking about in your post are the requirement of the state, the United States, because all what your talking about is marriage vs Visa, or if your marriage is not recognized by the US then it's no marriage. While what I posted was what most scholars consider the requirement of Allah.

What does it mean "the contract isn't enforceable" according to you. Marriage was meant to be a family matter, not a lawyer matter, that's why we require a Wali and 2 trustworthy witnesses, you added that it's no marriage if the contract enforceable, but it seems to me that's your simply opinion.

Reading you, one would thing there are no abused women in the US, just because they have a contract.

By the way if you think that in this time that people travel in jet, there are no Muslims leaving an remote villages then you're wrong.

It's unIslamic to call yourself married if you have no way to enforce your rights and you can't get a spousal visa. If you are not married in a way that allows you to be considered married in the US when you apply for a visa, you are still doing unIslamic things. True Islamic marriage requires offer, consideration (the mahr) and acceptance, as well as the witnesses, but it's not a marriage if the contract isn't enforceable and provides no protection for the parties involved. Just writing it down doesn't offer any protection.

Any scholar with your best interest in mind will admit this to you. I have a Ph.D in Islamic law and history, and I work with a dozen scholars who have dealt with the fallout of such unenforceable "marriages" for decades. In this day and age, with people taking jets and cars to travel and meet, there is no reason to do a "marriage" that isn't really a marriage, then a K1 as if you reside in an isolated village. It denies the glory of Islam, while elevating the importance of the requirements of a non-Muslim state over that of Allah.

It is true.

Explain to us how your way offers protection and enforcement, also required by Allah. The offer, consideration and acceptance only covers the ceremony. What happens after when things don't go well?

"Explain to us how your way offers protection and enforcement, also required by Allah. " I have no way, and it's not MY way. I think in my previous post I cited what most scholars consider an Islamic marriage.

Also you said that what I cited " It denies the glory of Islam, while elevating the importance of the requirements of a non-Muslim state over that of Allah," but actually what you are talking about in your post are the requirement of the state, the United States, because all what your talking about is marriage vs Visa, or if your marriage is not recognized by the US then it's no marriage. While what I posted was what most scholars consider the requirement of Allah.

What does it mean "the contract isn't enforceable" according to you. Marriage was meant to be a family matter, not a lawyer matter, that's why we require a Wali and 2 trustworthy witnesses, you added that it's no marriage if the contract enforceable, but it seems to me that's your simply opinion.

Reading you, one would thing there are no abused women in the US, just because they have a contract.

And I answered it. If you aren't married in the US and can't get a spousal visa, you're not married in Islam either.

That's definitely NOT true.

I don't think you are Muslim, so I want to tell you something that your fiance should have already told you. Going to a Muslim country to "marry" in a way that is not recognized by the Muslim country is not Islamic at all. You will not be married. We are directed by God to obey the law of the land we live in. So, if the intent of this "marriage" is to be alone together, then have a ceremony, but don't call it Islamic because will be nothing Islamic about it. Islam requires legality; marriage is a binding social contract with enforcable rights and responsibilities. What some incorrectly call an Islamic marriage can't be enforced because it is only between the two of you and you gain nothing from it, legally or spiritually. Even if the community knows, they have no say over your acts. This is not even the way it was done by the Prophet. It is a fable some believe.

You are worried that if you do a fake marriage in Egypt that it will hurt your chances to marry legally and correctly in the US. You should know that it is actually insulting to knowlegable Muslims for people to go to a Muslim country and flaunt their laws, but then worry that they must obey the law of a non-Muslim country to get a visa. Don't treat Islam and its requirements cavalierly. It is not a toy; it is a real faith with real obligations and should be treated with respect.

Most of the women here are not Muslim, and no one comes here saying they're going to have a fake Christian or Jewish marriage, then do a K1. They know better than to disrespect their own faiths. I don't understand why any honorable Muslim man would even suggest a fake marriage to a women he respects, much less call it "Islamic".

I'm also surprised that no one who answered this thread informed you correctly about any of this. I am not trying to be harsh, but Muslims should know better than to allow others to do this. We suffer the burden of the sins committed by those we mislead. So, have an engagement party, if you wish, but don't do what others who know less have done before you.

Also, in many countries, if you have an official marriage that doesn't make it an Islamic marriage because it doesn't fulfill the Islamic requirements of a marriage.

I don't think you are Muslim, so I want to tell you something that your fiance should have already told you. Going to a Muslim country to "marry" in a way that is not recognized by the Muslim country is not Islamic at all. You will not be married. We are directed by God to obey the law of the land we live in. So, if the intent of this "marriage" is to be alone together, then have a ceremony, but don't call it Islamic because will be nothing Islamic about it. Islam requires legality; marriage is a binding social contract with enforcable rights and responsibilities. What some incorrectly call an Islamic marriage can't be enforced because it is only between the two of you and you gain nothing from it, legally or spiritually. Even if the community knows, they have no say over your acts. This is not even the way it was done by the Prophet. It is a fable some believe.

You are worried that if you do a fake marriage in Egypt that it will hurt your chances to marry legally and correctly in the US. You should know that it is actually insulting to knowlegable Muslims for people to go to a Muslim country and flaunt their laws, but then worry that they must obey the law of a non-Muslim country to get a visa. Don't treat Islam and its requirements cavalierly. It is not a toy; it is a real faith with real obligations and should be treated with respect.

Most of the women here are not Muslim, and no one comes here saying they're going to have a fake Christian or Jewish marriage, then do a K1. They know better than to disrespect their own faiths. I don't understand why any honorable Muslim man would even suggest a fake marriage to a women he respects, much less call it "Islamic".

I'm also surprised that no one who answered this thread informed you correctly about any of this. I am not trying to be harsh, but Muslims should know better than to allow others to do this. We suffer the burden of the sins committed by those we mislead. So, have an engagement party, if you wish, but don't do what others who know less have done before you.

I don't think the person who asked the question is talking about FAKE marriage or breaking the law or anything of the sort. It's a simple question that needs a simple answer.

Yes, people can have an Islamic marriage without documenting it, and it's 100% Islamic, though it's more advised to have everything written to protect every ones rights.

The conditions of the Islamic marriage according to most schools are:

"Full consent of both partners to the marriage, and expressing the above consent through ijab (offer) and qabul(acceptance), the presence of two reliable witnesses, and in the case of females, their guardian’s consent has been considered essential for the validity of marriage according to the majority of imams and scholars."

Many people had to go through this path before applying for the K1 visa to avoid many unislamic things.

Hello to anyone that has time to read this!

I'm Canadian, my fiance, is American. We have 3 kids together. Our first was born in the US while I was visiting him. Our 2nd and 3rd were born in Canada. We would like to relocate to the US but have never known anyone to go through something like this. We don't have the slightest clue where to start.

Some say just get a laywer, but we want to know how much that costs versus to trying to go through all the proper procedures yourself.

If you have any knowledge of my next best step, please feel free to write back.

Thanks for your time!

You need no lawyer no nothing. You either get married, then apply for a spouse visa or just apply for a fiancee visa which will allow you entry in the US for the sole purpose to marry your fiance, then become a US resident.

Start here:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...amp;page=guides

Good morning family! We are getting married on the 22nd of January!!! It will only be a small ceremony held in a chapel on a military airforce base. Unfortunately there will be nobody to attend since both our families are far away from here and there's no time to bring them all. But it's ok. I have arranged with the priest to have the laptop with us and broadcast the ceremony online so all our loved ones could see us. :-)

We got our wedding rings a few days ago. For some reason (maybe because we had to do it so fast) I don't feel like I am getting married. It feels more like completing a task. hehehe On the other hand it may be that we already feel like we are married to each other since we spent so many years together.

Well, I wish everyone all the best and to those still waiting for approvals may your journey be as smooth as ours was.

Hugs and kisses to everybody,

Ileana

Congratulations for your wedding

Hi family! Iam in US some 4 days now. I travelled smoothly, actually the flight was one hour early than it was supposed to be. People at Memphis were really nice. They welcomed me with a big smile - the interview lasted less than 5 minutes. So one of the first things I've done here was shopping obviously! X-mas tree, decorations, presents and all! I am like a kid in a candy store!

Well, I will take some time to relax and then start the rest of the process - marriage, AOS and all. For now I don't worry about anything.

Hugs and kisses to you all!

Welcome home Kitty. You came right on time for the holidays.

Hello everybody,

So I get my medical tomorrow, and Paris is under the snow, and there is a strike going on transportation system...

I hope I can make it on time, because tadaaaaa, the doctor office will be closed next week for holidays...

The doctor office is not so far away from my home but any little travel in Paris takes 3x longer right now...

Rahaaaaahaaaa...

The medical was set on last monday originally, why the hell did I change the date...

Hi there. I read this morning about the snow in Paris. Enjoy it. I've been to Paris twice, both in a very nice weather.

Hello everybody! Any news here?

Aja just sent me an SMS. She just got off the US embassy in Prague. She says everything went very well and that she will get her visa tomorrow.

I won't calm down until she will get her visa in hand.

Heey guys,

My visa is approved!" But tomorrow I will have it in my hands insAllah !

Thank you all for your suport! You are wonderful!

Good luck to all!

Congratulations! That's what Aja told me. She will have it tomorrow, inshallah.

I hope the same for the rest of us.

hi everyone i just came back from my interview all the CO aske me was

1,where did you meet your fiance?

2,when did you meet ?

3,who does she leave with?

5,when did you meet -again ?

6,where did you meet -again ?

7,how did you stared with her ?

ans-we met online on a social networking website on the 24 of december 2008 last year .

8,CO-doesnt she have anything to do on christmas eve ?

ans- i dont know .i smiled and he smiled back .he then went through my phone records

9,CO-is 305 her area code ?

ans- no she she has a 386 area code

CO-well her number doesnt appear on the phone bill

ans- i always use magic jack to call her so it show the majic jack number which has a 305 area code

10,CO-do you always communicate through email alone?

ans-no

he then glance through my emails

11,CO-do you always talk about visa ?

ans-no we talk about others things more than just a visa .

then typed on the computer ,he always type something each time he asks me a question.

12,CO-who is mike .......?

ans-i dont know

he then said well mikes........name appears on her addresss then he tuned around talk to his co worker and then told me to have a sit and wait.after 10 munits he called out my name and said to me all we need right now is for you to go and find out who is mike..... and let us now the reason why his name appears on her address ?he then gave me a white sleep of paper to return in january and dont forget to bring your passport thats what he said last i then asked him do you need anything more he said no thats all we need,i said thank you and left.

SO now whats next do you think is a good sign that i will get approve and what will i do now since my fiance used her cousins name to rent the apartment .what document do i need to present ,any advice will be appreciated thanks .

Doesn't sound too bad. Good luck!!

Can you fill if you timeline please!!!!

Good luck to you! They did not approve my husbands in Ghana today. It is a terrible day for me.

Good luck to you.

But, Who is mike?

Hello everybody! Any news here?

Aja just sent me an SMS. She just got off the US embassy in Prague. She says everything went very well and that she will get her visa tomorrow.

I won't calm down until she will get her visa in hand.

Hi everyone,

Update:

Aja had her medical last Tuesday in Prague, and the interview is scheduled to be on December 15. She was waiting for her police record to come from UK. Now she has.

She will be staying in Prague for 3 days, since she will get her visa (hopefully) the next day.

Good luck to every one.

Hello my friends!

Ohhh cool Ahmed, so Alena is going to have an interview on December 15! GOOD LUCK!

Today I called embassy, and my interview is scheduled for Decembar 15 too! Wish me good luck !

I am so worried "

RAchel, any news?

Take care

That's great. I hope you'll be both approved the same day Inshallah.

GREAT NEWS...

We had our visa interview on thursday (dec.3) and we were approved. Visa should be in hand in about a week.

The consular officer had a million and one questions but we got it.... PS. embassy didnt look at any of the financial or relationship evidence.

Looking for planetickets to fly home for Christmas...

Good luck to those who are waiting for their interviews...

I am soooo happy.

Wonderful. Congratulations. Alena is finishing school in late February, so she won't be able to come here before that.

Hi everyone,

Update:

Aja had her medical last Tuesday in Prague, and the interview is scheduled to be on December 15. She was waiting for her police record to come from UK. Now she has.

She will be staying in Prague for 3 days, since she will get her visa (hopefully) the next day.

Good luck to every one.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.