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smoke20

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Posts posted by smoke20

  1. And there's another thing, how much impact does hiring illegal aliens have on both the job market and overall wages for lower income positions? My guess is, that outsourcing and cheaper wages in third world countries plays a much bigger role in this than anything that goes on because of illegals...but there you go, not much mileage in that one really.

    well actually outsourcing & wages in other countries have 0, nadda, nothing to do w/ construction & service industry jobs & wages inside the US. but, illegal immigration does. and again noone is going to convince me or anyone in these jobs, an illegal immigrant has any right to be taking a job from or undercutting the wages of an american or legal immigrant.

  2. Actually, I wonder just how high this is on the agenda of Joe/Jane Average American? I think they are more concerned with are they going to have a job, are they going to be able to sell their house, are their children safe, are they going to have coverage for the operation they need, is their relative ever coming home from Iraq, etc..... I just think that immigration reform isn't so high on the list of priorities for most people. I could ask anyone here at work and I'd bet immigration reform wouldn't be on their top 10 list of most important issues...

    I must be Joe Average American! I have a house for sale in Topeka, KS if anyone is interested.

    As for worrying about the job, I doubt very much that an "illegal" immigrant is going to ever take my job, and I dare say the vast majority of those on VJ aren't too worried about those darn "illegals" taking their jobs or reducing their pay.

    well i'm not worried about an illegal immigrant taking my job or reducing my pay either. but, i am worried about those other americans & legal immigrants that aren't as fortunate as we are, w/ no degree. what about the guy w/ 3 kids that works as a framer, or the lady w/ 4 kids working at a warehouse during the day & working 2 house keeping jobs at night & weekends(my mother 20 years ago). i do care about these people & their ability to provide for themselves & their families. and there is no way anyone will ever convince me that an illegal immigrant has as much right to those jobs as an american citizen or legal immigrant.

  3. smoke20 - I'm not going to have a conversation with you on PM. Bring it out in the open and maybe I'll have something to say.

    i'm not going to flame someone's nationality or race on this board. i don't see any need to offend people for no reason. unlike you i will take the high road on this one.

  4. Some people learn to think for themselves, instead of just following what is cool and popular. Although the war is only popular with a small group of people.

    so when are you going to learn to think for yourself? all i hear from you is rehashed BS from your 2 VJ heros...number 6 & fancypants.

  5. My point is, if you are going to engage in conflict/war, at least make sure that you have a workable plan to improve the situation that you are getting into so that the outcome is at least worth fighting for.

    As things stand, Iraq is a mess with no tenable solution in sight which was predicted by many experts BEFORE the fighting began and is not simply a product of rose coloured hind site.

    Agreed. What's 'wrong' or 'leftist' about that? Must just be me who doesn't see the connection..

    no nothing wrong or leftist about that. what is wrong & leftist is that the left has conveniently forgotten, they voted & authorized going to war in iraq on the same intelligents info. now that the war isn't as popular of an idea it once was "Bush did it, Bush lied to us, its Bush's oil war"

    You forget some of us came from outside of the US - and our public debates on this issue were rather different. There was massive (MASSIVE) public opposition to the war in the UK. What I don't understand is how the subsequent revelations as to the quality of intelligence and the conduct of politicians basically showed that the general public knew more than the policy-makers themselves at the time.

    Given that this is questionable assertion at best, its no leap of faith to suggest that we were lied to. Everything that emerged subsequently (Curveball, the dodgy dossiers, admissions of former officials, the Downing Street Memo etc) validated the initial scepticism.

    i didn't forget anything & like i said -i'm not singling you or PH out about it-. i was talking about the folks in washington pointing at Bush & denying they voted in favor of the war on the same intel.

  6. no nothing wrong or leftist about that. what is wrong & leftist is that the left has conveniently forgotten, they voted & authorized going to war in iraq on the same intelligents info. now that the war isn't as popular of an idea it once was "Bush did it, Bush lied to us, its Bush's oil war"

    So, what you are saying is that I am not entitled to question a war, that I questioned from day one, because some politician I have no allegiance to nor did I vote for, voted & authorised this war? That makes sense.

    no i'm not singling you out or number 6. i'm calling out the dems (the left) for doing it. i'm not saying you or anyone else in this thread has flip floped on it. the democratic party has.

  7. My point is, if you are going to engage in conflict/war, at least make sure that you have a workable plan to improve the situation that you are getting into so that the outcome is at least worth fighting for.

    As things stand, Iraq is a mess with no tenable solution in sight which was predicted by many experts BEFORE the fighting began and is not simply a product of rose coloured hind site.

    Agreed. What's 'wrong' or 'leftist' about that? Must just be me who doesn't see the connection..

    no nothing wrong or leftist about that. what is wrong & leftist is that the left has conveniently forgotten, they voted & authorized going to war in iraq on the same intelligents info. now that the war isn't as popular of an idea it once was "Bush did it, Bush lied to us, its Bush's oil war"

  8. We have allies in the region, they give us oil. If we do some really stupid stuff like violate the rules of war on our end. We get no more oil.

    They don't give us oil, they sell us oil. If they don't sell us oil, they don't get paid. For a bunch of economies as dependent on oil revenues as those in the ME, choosing to not sell us oil just isn't a good choice.

    At least not until Chinese demand is high enough where we pale in comparison and no longer matter.

    Drive those SUVs! Maintain American leverage! ;)

    Of course. But I'm talking about the fallout if the US were to do something as stupid as to use nukes. It will be a hit, but I would expect the outrage within Saudi Arabia to be such that the government will be forced to stop selling oil to the US. Or deal with a coup.

    pull your head out dan. if anyone used a nuke others would follow & we'd all die. hence thats why we can not allow dumbazzes like the iranian pres obtain them.

  9. Just because the other side isn't part of it, doesn't release us from our responsibilities under the Geneva convention.

    But because we are a state, and part of international law, our actions within those laws can affect our relationships with other countries. We take out the nukes? there will be hell to pay. Not only that, you will basically destroy relationships with any Arab country, which will cut us off for significant supplies of oil. An action that would have costs beyond the battlefield.

    Any significant action in violation of international law on our part will have repercussions all across the middle east, and likely the world.

    Lol. The Arab world hates and will America no matter what. It did so prior to going to Iraq. Hence sept/11. We have just become fools and are being played by them. So many on the left prefer to deny the constant threats and their use of violence to intimidate us..

    Lets take Indonesia for example. Indonesia warmly welcomed Australia's $200 million to protect their forests but has asked for more. All while they just spent $1.2 billion on new military hardware. Point being, the naive need to wake up and smell the coffee and games others are playing..

    Going on a wild tangent again?

    steven isn't here don't use his catch phrases :P

  10. I am sure there are a lot of dead civilians who are very glad to hear that.

    i'm sure a lot of our service men & woman would be thrilled to know you think of them as crazy barbarians. especially since they are fighting a war to keep your azz safe & free to bash them on an internet message board.

    Well you did say that you think its ok to shoot a guy holding a baby (presumably with automatic weapons) if he was shooting at you.

    Now imagine you're the guy holding the baby...

    i wouldn't be holding a baby & shooting. then again i'm not a coward either.

  11. I am sure there are a lot of dead civilians who are very glad to hear that.

    i'm sure a lot of our service men & woman would be thrilled to know you think of them as crazy barbarians. especially since they are fighting a war to keep your azz safe & free to bash them on an internet message board.

    What makes an American life anymore valuable than a life of an Iraqi?

    who said it was? but, if you ask me an American life is worth more. but, thats a proud Americans opinion. what your opinion on that since you asked the question?

  12. Likewise your argument is stock standard left wing rhetoric. War is bad and wrong. No sh!t.. but is also inevitable unless you have your head in the sand. You know like-minded people had the same attitude in WWII. Hence why 50,000,000+ people ended up dead..

    Many on the left also fail to accept Bin Laden's own quote, "We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.".. So whether you accept war and violence or not, others will bring it to your door step. The worst thing a nation can do is sit there, like a naive idiot, and take it. Much like being a victim of bullying. Until someone fights back the bully will never ever stop.

    Which would work if there was an agressor in the first place...but I seem to remember the reason we went into Iraq was to look for WMD's...or prevent Israel from starting a war (which is a theory I need to research more). Either way, it's hard to argue that the US was a victim of anything. Mind you, war is inevitable and all that...

    no we went to war because saddam repeatedly thumbed his nose at countless UN inspections & UN sanctions. and the intellegence avalible to us lead us to believe he had & would use them. the house & senate voted to go to war on the same evidence. (including the dems)

  13. I am sure there are a lot of dead civilians who are very glad to hear that.

    i'm sure a lot of our service men & woman would be thrilled to know you think of them as crazy barbarians. especially since they are fighting a war to keep your azz safe & free to bash them on an internet message board.

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