Beauty for Ashes

The mother and his friend talked to you because this is a family project to get him over to the USA with his rich wife who will support him while he saends all his money home. Please please please for your daughters sake and i speak from experience, end this . You will destroy your childrens life. No child needs some temperamental moody ####### yelling and screaming stateside when one thing doesnt go their way? Do you really want this for your daughter. Not a day goes by that I dont regret marrying the monster I married who ruined my life, my mothers life and my childrens psyches. Not a day goes by that I dont regret every minute.I had plenty of time to get out and didnt listen to a damn person excusing away his cruel, abusive and psychotic behavior. He too begged for money back home, lied about it and acted like a spoiled ####### there and here. It wasnt until life bit him in the #### and he actually had to work and suffer and face life here that he improved somewhat but I will never ever forgive him or his jerkwad family for the visa grab they set me up for. You have to be honest with yourself. Dont hurt your little girl cause you are lonely
You wont change him and I could never advise anyone to marry anyone from MENA who wasnt kind and 100 balanced. If they are wacky, they will be wacky times 200000 when they get here and wreak havoc all over your life stateside. You think the money problems are bad now, wait till he gets here and either claims you have abused him, physically and emotionally abuses you here on us soil and you cant get rid of his terrorisng ,emotionally blackmailing butt. The fact his parent are in on it, trying to explain away his psychotic behavior makes it worse. RUN.. RUN..If they arent normal at this point, it will get worse and worse.

The mother and his friend talked to you because this is a family project to get him over to the USA with his rich wife who will support him while he saends all his money home. Please please please for your daughters sake and i speak from experience, end this . You will destroy your childrens life. No child needs some temperamental moody ####### yelling and screaming stateside when one thing doesnt go their way? Do you really want this for your daughter. Not a day goes by that I dont regret marrying the monster I married who ruined my life, my mothers life and my childrens psyches. Not a day goes by that I dont regret every minute.I had plenty of time to get out and didnt listen to a damn person excusing away his cruel, abusive and psychotic behavior. He too begged for money back home, lied about it and acted like a spoiled ####### there and here. It wasnt until life bit him in the #### and he actually had to work and suffer and face life here that he improved somewhat but I will never ever forgive him or his jerkwad family for the visa grab they set me up for. You have to be honest with yourself. Dont hurt your little girl cause you are lonely
You wont change him and I could never advise anyone to marry anyone from MENA who wasnt kind and 100 balanced. If they are wacky, they will be wacky times 200000 when they get here and wreak havoc all over your life stateside. You think the money problems are bad now, wait till he gets here and either claims you have abused him, physically and emotionally abuses you here on us soil and you cant get rid of his terrorisng ,emotionally blackmailing butt. The fact his parent are in on it, trying to explain away his psychotic behavior makes it worse. RUN.. RUN..If they arent normal at this point, it will get worse and worse.

It doesnt get any better when they get here if they are already having temper tantrums. Its awful especially if you have children living with you and you bring a tempremental ####### over here and they wreak havoc on your life and your family.
I think the women that withdraw petitions after they see red flags are smart as hell

Lets say MANY arabic men provide for their wives. But SOME freeload off the American women that sponsored them, SOME cheat on their American sponsor wives with other women and SOME married the American only for papers or financial game and have literally destroyed the life of the woman and her family.
You can never generalise about an entire group of people. Its not that arab guys do this more than Americans because they do not but SOME of the marriages that have been on the boards have involved physical and emotional abuse as well as game playing to get a visa , get over here and get gone.
You can never group and entire group of people by any classification
I am glad you love your wife to death.. thats great to hear

Lets say MANY arabic men provide for their wives. But SOME freeload off the American women that sponsored them, SOME cheat on their American sponsor wives with other women and SOME married the American only for papers or financial game and have literally destroyed the life of the woman and her family.
You can never generalise about an entire group of people. Its not that arab guys do this more than Americans because they do not but SOME of the marriages that have been on the boards have involved physical and emotional abuse as well as game playing to get a visa , get over here and get gone.
You can never group and entire group of people by any classification
I am glad you love your wife to death.. thats great to hear

Lets say MANY arabic men provide for their wives. But SOME freeload off the American women that sponsored them, SOME cheat on their American sponsor wives with other women and SOME married the American only for papers or financial game and have literally destroyed the life of the woman and her family.
You can never generalise about an entire group of people. Its not that arab guys do this more than Americans because they do not but SOME of the marriages that have been on the boards have involved physical and emotional abuse as well as game playing to get a visa , get over here and get gone.
You can never group and entire group of people by any classification
I am glad you love your wife to death.. thats great to hear

It doesnt get any better when they get here if they are already having temper tantrums. Its awful especially if you have children living with you and you bring a tempremental ####### over here and they wreak havoc on your life and your family.
I think the women that withdraw petitions after they see red flags are smart as hell

On second thought, honestly, I have never asked anyone from MENA specifically that has naturalised about how they felt about the oath or whether if asked, if they would take up arms and defend the USA. I would be very curious to know how someone from MENA interpreted the oath and whether they thought about it seriously when reciting it and afterwards. The verbage is very clear. The oath makes someone promise to defend the US and this includes serving if drafted and that of course means taking up arms to defend the US. For many people that would not be something that would be difficult to do. But lets say someone was drafted to serve in the middle east in a war we were involved in. Would they be able to do that? Is citizenship always the best choice for people if they are not completely commited to being US citizens?

I dont think Hot Guys post really matters one way or the other. How one person feels about the US Army or how Americans feel about the military or Iraq or Afganistan is their own personal opinion. The original post was a nice post about Americans helping a girl who was disfigured.
The USCIS and the oath of citizenship clearly state that if you want to naturalise you need to be prepared to defend the US in times of crisis. Whats great about this is that I am not the one setting the standard for someone becoming a US citizen. The USCIS and the oath of citizenship do that.
If you cannot support this country in every possible way, including defending her in time of crisis, dont naturalise. Keep the green card and keep your opinion ,whatever it is.
USCIS has been stripping people of citizenship in the last 5 years for prior fraud on greencard applications including finding out if they were lying when they applied for either card as well as doing things that are subversive to the US.
It should have been a seperate topic but it evolved like that.. Oh well

If you do that excessively in Egypt or other places you get arrested on the spot. Try doing the things in mena that are allowed here and you will see how long you would last

Here is exactly how I feel.
I think we have made alot of mistakes all over. I absolutely will not cheerlead any kind of cruelty to people at all anyway, period. I think that we have made horrible mistakes but most of the messes we are in were former colonies or places somehow Europe messed up in its chase for colonies.
Congo was mentioned...Congo was founded by France and like many other French colonies, there was genocide, asset stripping of the country and many crimes perpetrated that were horrific. If France would single handedly contribute to clean up the calamitiess it caused all over the world instead of running away from its messes, the USA would have never even entered into Viet Nam,there wouldnt have been a post colony muslim blood bath in Algeria, Rwanda, which was belgian, which received much of its ethnic divides from French precedents of class seperation would not have turned into the mess that it did. The list goes on and on. Iraq has graves from the early 1900s from British soldiers who were trying to seperate the gulf states. The US with its tradition of isolationism had absolutely nothing to do with fertilising the discord between the Shias and the Sunnis although later we literally built Saadam to fight Iran.
Yes our foreign policy is a mess but I dont hate this country or its soldiers anymore than France or French people should detest their country for shipping thousands of french born jews to death camps (children and babies were ripped out of orphanages) or in fact the genocide the French did in Algeria itself dehumanised an entire country, not to mention what the French and Spanish did in Morocco ( the riff)showing Napalm on people in the mountains, planting land mines,conducting secret nuclear energy tests and murdering women and children,boiling them in vats of oil
The USA is not the only villian in the world, just a convenient scape goat for all the worlds ills. I have traveled and lived all over the world and mena and honestly when I was 17 I sat and listened to very entitled europeans American bash only to learn for myself that other countries namely the colonisers have gotten the US into alot of the messes we are in. Is the a freedom of information act in Europe like there is in the USA?No. Our country has been forced to take precautions because we have American soldiers of mena birth picking up guns and plowing down 10s of people, American born teens of Somali birth,fighting against us overseas. We have to do the things we can as a nation to protect ourselves. We have to also prosecute people who do wrong. I know you can see our soldiers doing horrible things because we have laws that expose them. But there were no cameras through the years to capture all of the colonisers attrocities and the rape of literally everything beautiful in Africas wild. If you want to know what caused the power vaccum in the middle east and north africa that literally started islamic extremism, you need to look at Europes actions after world war one and two.
We have made horrible mistakes but I wouldnt ever want bash our countries soliders, its people, and its traditions to some how fit in to some kind of imaginary new peer group, one full of self hatred and bile towards the United States. Its very easy to say, I love my country,its people, its freedom and traditions but I dont agree with the war, or actions of the government, etc etc etc. Its the self loathing or how I call it slam book of people who think they have to throw away everything they grew up with or knew all their life for a relationship or a new set a friends that irks me. When Haiti s earthquake happened, everyone screamed the USA s name to come help, same with the Tsunami. . If I was from overseas, and I saw a native born American ashamed of what she was, I would lose so much respect for her because even people from the third world love who they are..Watch the Africa cup and even the poorest person is proud of what they are. Why shouldnt we be? Yes our country makes mistakes, has made mistakes but I love it immensely along with the opportunities I have been given
I just wonder what make the people sign the I HATE AMERICA slambook when they marry a mena person..

I dont think this qualifies as war porn. It was simply something good that came about because Americans helped her. She didnt have her nose and ears cut off because of our country, soldiers or the war. I can honestly say though that this war was not started by us to begin with if you really delve into it. Russia's dehumanization of the Afgans started the slide into religious extremism that now rules Afganistan. The difference is that when Americans kill and maim,they go to jail.When monsters like the husband and brother of this girl go to work, its called an honor killing or attack and there are no consequences.
I often wonder when people marry from mena if they sign some kind of slam book that says
I will now bash everything about my country, its soldiers, its traditions and look for the bad in everything about the USA
This has nothing to do with you Sandinista.. I am just really wondering if somehow you can be very pro american both national and international policy and be married to someone from that side of the world.Again,nothing to do with you personally. I just wonder if there are any couples where the wife remains true to her background and people and doesnt just throw everything she grew up with to the wind or wall just to please some guy or new found friends

I do not want people becoming citizens unless they love this country and are willing to sacrifice and care for it. That includes respecting its history, its elders, its soldiers and its traditions. The oath is very clear. If you are not willing to protect the USA and swear to it, you do not need to be a citizen.

You live in the USA,,,try to support it a little. I certainly dont want the taliban runnning things here

You live in the USA,,,try to support it a little. I certainly dont want the taliban runnning things here

Happy Ramadan Everybody
Having your christian familly be upset about their child leaving their religion does not make them hicks or bigots. It makes them very concerned. Especially if religion was a huge part of their life. For example, my family are Roman Catholics and Irish and the catholic church is a huge part of every aspect of their identity. Just because your American family is upset and shaken up because you leave a religion you grew up with,it doesnt make them hicks or bigots.
Id like to see what a muslim family in lets say Algeria or Morocco would do if their daughter just decided that she wasnt going to do ramadan anymore, was becoming a christian because they started attending church services.. Wait I have the answer. Whoever prostelatysed to them will face jail time as well as expulsion from the country and bibles are not even allowed legally to be brought into the country. Also there are hadiths that read if you leave Islam , you face death. No one is saying anyone has ever actually been faced with that reality , especially living in the west but for the love of God, its a huge thing for someone to convert or revert from either culture and its perfectly normal for their family to feel upset about it. They are after all their family. I have practised islam for over 9 years and my family is split on their conscensus but I can tell you that there are alot of things that you cannot find in the immigrant community that you will find in your home community. I have actually been through the rites of islam in a funeral and its is awful how badly my mother and female family was treated during it, literally shoved from the graveside and not even spoken to. There are huge differences in the way that the relgions are practiced and while its fine to revert to marry I guess and be living on the sidelines of the real ramifications of the religion, whats good for the goose is good for the gander. A muslim family would freak out if their child left islam. Its not anything weird for an american family to freak out, especially if they think it was only orchestrated to please a foreign mate who may or may not even be around in 5 years .. and their child is throwing away a part of their childhood for a relationship or to look better to land the relationship to begin with.
This is a huge choice and its not weird for either relgions members to be upset
The parents being hysterical is very much human nature.
Here are some articles about the expulsion of christians in mena
Article on APOSTASY, or leaving Islam. There is no state mandated punishment for leaving Christianity but there are hadiths that condemn the apostate to death
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam
Martyrs in Algeria from the Catholic ChurchCatholic Nuns and Priests killed in Algeria
Article on the dangers of leaving islam from the Uk Times online
apostasy in the UK from the times online
Prominent American pastor expelled from Algeriaprominent American pastor expelled
Church in Algeria ransacked Jan 2010 REUTERSchurch ransacked Algeria JAN 2010
Without discussing any of this, you are minimising the impact of changing religion on either cultures family members
Here is the hadith that says leaving Islam is punishable by death. I am not sure if there is anything in the bible that states the same.. Its open for interpretation
"Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17
Leaving a life long religion is a huge choice. The OPs family should be respectful of her choice of course but its not really strange in any way for them to be upset. They also might not feel confident that her relationship will be a permanent one either and may have feeling about the whole situation and their panic may be more of a symptom of that as well. Its very scary for a religious christian mom to see her daughter walk away from everything she holds dear to join a relgion that is depicted in the news as barbaric. Look at the mass outrage over the mosque at ground zero. The majority of Americans are outraged about it although to deny their right to have the masjid is very racist.
We are facing alot of after math from 9 11 whether we like it or not. I think it was alot easier for parents to deal with conversion before all the carnage that Americans have had to put up with the last few years.
Even the pollsters are reflecting most Americans outrage with having a islamic center built 2 blocks from ground zero.
I personally think it would show the world that we are forgiving and tolerant but many think its a piece of glass through the heart and that the area is hallowed ground
Most New Yorkers Oppose Ground Zero Mosque: Poll
NBSNY ^ | Jul 1, 2010 | JILLIAN SCHARR
Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 2:38:47 PM by GOPGuide
A majority of New Yorkers oppose plans to build a mosque and Muslim cultural center two blocks from Ground Zero, according to a Quinnipiac University Poll released Thursday.
Fifty-two percent of the respondents said they did not want the mosque to be built at all, 31 percent are in favor of it, and 17 percent are undecided.
"New York enjoys a reputation as one of the most tolerant places in America, but New Yorkers are opposed to a proposal to build a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero," said Quinnipiac University Polling Institute Director Maurice Carroll in a press release.
"Is it because we're still nursing the wounds from the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center or is it more like bigotry?" he asked.
Broken down by borough, Manhattan was the most in favor of the mosque, with only 36 percent of residents against it. On the other end of the spectrum was Staten Island, where 73 percent of respondents were opposed.
"Liberal Manhattan accepts the mosque and trusts Islam," observed Carroll. "Staten Island, where there's controversy about another proposed mosque, is more skeptical."
According to the poll, 56 percent of white voters, 45 percent of black voters, and 60 percent of Hispanic voters oppose the mosque. Along religious lines, 66 percent of Jews, 66 percent of Catholics, and 46 percent of Protestants were opposed.
The poll also researched New Yorkers' opinions of Islam. Fifty-five percent of New Yorkers believe that mainstream Islam is a "peaceful religion, while only 22 percent said Islam "encourages violence against non-Muslims." Twenty-three percent of New Yorkers are undecided. The full report can be found here.
I think there are alot of factors here at play and they go far beyond the actual conversion or reversion or whatever you want to call it
I hope everyone is having a great ramadan. This is just some food for thought. I just wanted to maybe open the discussion to perhaps see things from the familys side because there are definite concerns that they may be feeling, however bullying her is very wrong....

Happy Ramadan Everybody
Having your christian familly be upset about their child leaving their religion does not make them hicks or bigots. It makes them very concerned. Especially if religion was a huge part of their life. For example, my family are Roman Catholics and Irish and the catholic church is a huge part of every aspect of their identity. Just because your American family is upset and shaken up because you leave a religion you grew up with,it doesnt make them hicks or bigots.
Id like to see what a muslim family in lets say Algeria or Morocco would do if their daughter just decided that she wasnt going to do ramadan anymore, was becoming a christian because they started attending church services.. Wait I have the answer. Whoever prostelatysed to them will face jail time as well as expulsion from the country and bibles are not even allowed legally to be brought into the country. Also there are hadiths that read if you leave Islam , you face death. No one is saying anyone has ever actually been faced with that reality , especially living in the west but for the love of God, its a huge thing for someone to convert or revert from either culture and its perfectly normal for their family to feel upset about it. They are after all their family. I have practised islam for over 9 years and my family is split on their conscensus but I can tell you that there are alot of things that you cannot find in the immigrant community that you will find in your home community. I have actually been through the rites of islam in a funeral and its is awful how badly my mother and female family was treated during it, literally shoved from the graveside and not even spoken to. There are huge differences in the way that the relgions are practiced and while its fine to revert to marry I guess and be living on the sidelines of the real ramifications of the religion, whats good for the goose is good for the gander. A muslim family would freak out if their child left islam. Its not anything weird for an american family to freak out, especially if they think it was only orchestrated to please a foreign mate who may or may not even be around in 5 years .. and their child is throwing away a part of their childhood for a relationship or to look better to land the relationship to begin with.
This is a huge choice and its not weird for either relgions members to be upset
The parents being hysterical is very much human nature.
Here are some articles about the expulsion of christians in mena
Article on APOSTASY, or leaving Islam. There is no state mandated punishment for leaving Christianity but there are hadiths that condemn the apostate to death
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam
Martyrs in Algeria from the Catholic ChurchCatholic Nuns and Priests killed in Algeria
Article on the dangers of leaving islam from the Uk Times online
apostasy in the UK from the times online
Prominent American pastor expelled from Algeriaprominent American pastor expelled
Church in Algeria ransacked Jan 2010 REUTERSchurch ransacked Algeria JAN 2010
Without discussing any of this, you are minimising the impact of changing religion on either cultures family members
Here is the hadith that says leaving Islam is punishable by death. I am not sure if there is anything in the bible that states the same.. Its open for interpretation
"Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17
Leaving a life long religion is a huge choice. The OPs family should be respectful of her choice of course but its not really strange in any way for them to be upset. They also might not feel confident that her relationship will be a permanent one either and may have feeling about the whole situation and their panic may be more of a symptom of that as well. Its very scary for a religious christian mom to see her daughter walk away from everything she holds dear to join a relgion that is depicted in the news as barbaric. Look at the mass outrage over the mosque at ground zero. The majority of Americans are outraged about it although to deny their right to have the masjid is very racist.
We are facing alot of after math from 9 11 whether we like it or not. I think it was alot easier for parents to deal with conversion before all the carnage that Americans have had to put up with the last few years.
Even the pollsters are reflecting most Americans outrage with having a islamic center built 2 blocks from ground zero.
I personally think it would show the world that we are forgiving and tolerant but many think its a piece of glass through the heart and that the area is hallowed ground
Most New Yorkers Oppose Ground Zero Mosque: Poll
NBSNY ^ | Jul 1, 2010 | JILLIAN SCHARR
Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 2:38:47 PM by GOPGuide
A majority of New Yorkers oppose plans to build a mosque and Muslim cultural center two blocks from Ground Zero, according to a Quinnipiac University Poll released Thursday.
Fifty-two percent of the respondents said they did not want the mosque to be built at all, 31 percent are in favor of it, and 17 percent are undecided.
"New York enjoys a reputation as one of the most tolerant places in America, but New Yorkers are opposed to a proposal to build a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero," said Quinnipiac University Polling Institute Director Maurice Carroll in a press release.
"Is it because we're still nursing the wounds from the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center or is it more like bigotry?" he asked.
Broken down by borough, Manhattan was the most in favor of the mosque, with only 36 percent of residents against it. On the other end of the spectrum was Staten Island, where 73 percent of respondents were opposed.
"Liberal Manhattan accepts the mosque and trusts Islam," observed Carroll. "Staten Island, where there's controversy about another proposed mosque, is more skeptical."
According to the poll, 56 percent of white voters, 45 percent of black voters, and 60 percent of Hispanic voters oppose the mosque. Along religious lines, 66 percent of Jews, 66 percent of Catholics, and 46 percent of Protestants were opposed.
The poll also researched New Yorkers' opinions of Islam. Fifty-five percent of New Yorkers believe that mainstream Islam is a "peaceful religion, while only 22 percent said Islam "encourages violence against non-Muslims." Twenty-three percent of New Yorkers are undecided. The full report can be found here.
I think there are alot of factors here at play and they go far beyond the actual conversion or reversion or whatever you want to call it
I hope everyone is having a great ramadan. This is just some food for thought. I just wanted to maybe open the discussion to perhaps see things from the familys side because there are definite concerns that they may be feeling, however bullying her is very wrong....

Please do not do it. Please.
You will love this baby and if he really loves you and this is a real marriage, he would not force you to kill your baby. He isnt even supporting you anyway. Just tell him, I am having the baby and if you need to take a break from me and the baby, take it, but I am not having an abortion. If someone really married you for love, they wouldnt push you to take the life of a child. You may never get another chance to have a baby, things can happen.I had someone from overseas walk out on me pregnant and I went ahead and had my daughter and she is amazing and beautiful with the most bubbly personality ever. I have never ever regretting having her and her dad regrets now what he did 5 years later. Keep your baby...he will either come around or he will leave and if he leaves, good riddance