Robin19

Please share your experience. Thanks.

Anyone here with experience of going through CR1 spousal visa approval or refusal  after getting refused for fiance K1 visa first?

My fiance in India was refused K1 visa during the interview and it will be great if someone can share his/her experience who went through the same situation. If possible can you also please state your country of CR1 visa interview.  Thanks a lot!

11 minutes ago, geowrian said:

Yeah, there's a limit on posts for new users.

 

The remedies would depend on the specific cause of issue with a spousal visa. If it's a lack of bona fide marriage evidence, then more evidence is needed. Time spent together in person is optimal.

This is where I would put my focus if I were in that position. Have a strong case, present a strong case.

 

If the issue was a misrepresentation inadmissibility (theoretically - I'm in no way suggesting this is the case), then there would be an opportunity to file an I-601 hardship waiver once determined otherwise eligible fore the visa.

Hi thanks a lot again! Your reply gives me lots of hope! BTW is the refusal of visa = denial of visa? Thanks.

3 minutes ago, missileman said:

Did you fiance use the word meaning "marriage" when describing the pictures?

According to her she didn't. She said the CO was very to the point. There is one more thing that my fiance used a translator as she was confident that she would understand everything in English and she tells me that she felt like the CO office would say something which sounded more in detail and the translator would tell my  fiance in a very few words what the CO said and the translator conveyed my fiance's messages in a very short form to CO as well. So so many things didn't go well that day.

2 minutes ago, missileman said:

Was there any part of the interview where the CO seemed concerned or asked more questions.  Usually, an analysis of what was said during the interview can provide a pretty good idea of the reason for denial.

According to my fiance, the interview lasted for less than 10 mins. She said that the CO officer seemed to be in a very bad mood and she felt liked the officer had already made up her mind to refuse the visa. If I have to pin point a situation where the officer seemed concerned was when she pointed out at 2-3 pictures of the engagement and asked my fiance who were those people (like pointing  at her grandmother, my uncle, father, etc). There were like 30 relatives who attended the engagement and I think now it wasn't a good thing. It gives cause some misunderstanding in the CO's mind.

21 hours ago, carmel34 said:

The best route for you is to find out as much information as you can get on why she was denied the K-1 visa.  That could be through FOIA requests.  I also suggest that you spend more time with your fiancee (you only visited her once?) and have a deep heart-to-heart discussion about her past.  Does she have any other denied visa applications?  Previous romantic relationships with people in the US?  Any overstays in the US?  Any family members living in the US?  All of these issues could have played a role in her denial.  If, after a long talk with her, in person, about these issues, if you are satisfied that she is telling you everything, you both have a decision to make about your future and if you think the reason for the K-1 denial can be overcome through a CR-1 application.  If the only reason for the denial is the lavish engagement party, you will most likely be successful if you spend more time with her in person and co-mingle finances as much as you can.  But if there are other challenges from her past that you did not know about, it could be a longer road and more difficult to overcome.  If your love for each other is strong enough, you will find a way to be together someday, regardless of how long it takes, either in the US via a CR-1 spousal visa, or you can go and live with her in India or some other country outside the US.  Good luck!

Hi thank you for advice, very good points! She doesn't have any previous visa applications or relations in the US or any country. So now I think it was just the interview she couldn't handle properly.

21 hours ago, JeanneAdil said:

very serious would be something that was not honest (an outright lie)

any misrpresentation is serious

 

criminal report is bad???? or medical exam showed an issue????

these you would be aware of

 

photos that look like a marriage instead of engagement party will not mean a denial of spousal visa (unless the marriage certificate shows a date before or  during the K1 process)

Hi there were no issues with criminal record or medical exam.

22 hours ago, geowrian said:

I've posted on the subject in greater detail in the past. Search for P6C, or P6C1 markers (sorry, I'm running out the door as I post this and can't pull it up that quickly).

 

Basically, as policy is written right now, a returned I-129F get s P6C (fraud) marker associated with it. If the petition is subsequently revoked by USCIS, this marker automatically becomes a finding, which incurs the permanent (but waivable) bar.

However, this is not how fraud/misrepresentation bars were intended to be used. They are intended for cases where there is a willful, material misrepresentation made. In the above case, the finding comes from the fact of being unable to prove your case, not due to intentional misrepresentations. It's mixing the burden to show that you qualify for the benefit sought versus the burden of showing an intentional misrep.

As such, USCIS policy is to no longer review returned I-129Fs. This lets them expire and terminate instead of being revoked.

 

This does not mean they don't review a previous petition or case when you file again. It also does not mean that there can't be a bar for misrepresentation due to other factors involved with the petition, visa application, or interview. It's just not automatic as a result of the petition being returned and subsequently revoked.

But unless there is reason to suspect a misrep, I would not assume there is one until told otherwise.

Hi thanks a ton for this valuable information! Sorry for the late reply as VJ had blocked me to post more replies yesterday, perhaps due to posting number limit for new users. You are the only one of few people on VJ forums who seem to know a lot and in depth. In case you have some info on this as well,  could you please let me know what happens if the K1 visa rejection becomes obstacle (just in case) during the spousal visa interview? What are the remedies for this situation? Actually my fiance's parents are very worried about this situation just in case we assume the worst and I can't seem to find any info on this.

22 hours ago, GabLuc said:

The CO are very versed on he cultures of the countries they service. 

 

I doubt it will be the engagement party, since Indians are known for lavish celebrations. 

 

I think it may be the incorrect answers, I mean who doesn't know where their spouse works? Or their date of birth? That seems shady especially if the CO thinks those are basic questions that require no thought. 

 

It's proof of a bonafide relationship they are trying to determine. If you file the CR1 visa, she will still need to be interviewed. Work on your relationship, and determine the best route for your family. Immigration is complicated everywhere in the world.

Hi thank you for your input. Yeah now I also believe bonafide relationship could have been a big factor in her interview. On the lavish engagement ceremonies, I want to add one more point that in some cultures (like Indian's), usually girl's parents' blessings  and participation in a girl's marriage are considered very important due to the social setup and expectations, and there have been many case where the couple got married to fulfill this social requirement and they went for k1 visa anyways instead of spousal visa. So the CO officers in such places are aware of this and can look at the fiance with a doubt like he or she is already married. I know one case where the girl was already married and went to attend the fiance visa interview. The CO officer caught her because the girl still had "mehndi" decoration on her hands. The CO noticed some other points as well during the interview as well. The girl couldn't handle the situation and CO officer refused the visa but did say that she needed to go for spousal visa.

5 minutes ago, GabLuc said:

The CO are very versed on he cultures of the countries they service. 

 

I doubt it will be the engagement party, since Indians are known for lavish celebrations. 

 

I think it may be the incorrect answers, I mean who doesn't know where their spouse works? Or their date of birth? That seems shady especially if the CO thinks those are basic questions that require no thought. 

 

It's proof of a bonafide relationship they are trying to determine. If you file the CR1 visa, she will still need to be interviewed. Work on your relationship, and determine the best route for your family. Immigration is complicated everywhere in the world.

Hi thanks for the reply. Yeah, it can be the bonafide relationship issue as well. The CO officer asked her my age indirectly twice. First time the CO officer intentionally increased my age number by 4 years and said that you fiance is this old, why do you want to marry someone who is this much older than you? Second time the CO officer asked (after 2-3 more questions on different topics) how old were your fiance when you got engaged to him? .  Same thing happened when she was asked about my employer name. My fiance was already nervous, tired, didn't have good sleep, no breakfast...and these factors were a bad combination to go for a serious interview like this.

4 minutes ago, Ahmed&Freda said:

You can file a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) with USCIS here is a link that is helpful https://www.foia.gov/how-to.html  sometimes just the details of the interview alone would tell you the reason for the denial but if you are uncertain you can try for the FOIA and request the notes from the consular officer sent from the embassy.

Great! Thanks a lot! Would you know if it works? I read somewhere that it may not work.

5 minutes ago, Daphne K said:

Many information about this very topic here on VJ 😉

Yeah. Before getting into this situation I always thought that it was my right to sponsor any woman I wanted to marry and all I needed was to make sure that my documentations is perfect. But now I have learned there is more to it.

8 minutes ago, missileman said:

Unnecessary worry is not a good thing in this process.

Step 1:  Determine the reason the K-1 was returned to USCIS

Step 2:  Develop a plan to overcome the reason.

Step 3:  Re-start the petition process 

hi thanks. Do you know how can I find the reason why the petition was returned back? If I have to guess, I can guess a lot of reasons as I mentioned in my original post but that won't help if I need to find the exact reason.

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

One note I should add about the spousal visa, it will not be simply a visit or a trip to a third country get married and file, facetime and comingling a married life is definitely important.  Plan on multiple trips, and it may help for you to also be there when the interview eventually comes up.

Hi yeah, actually I have already decided that if I get married I am going to stay with her for 2-3 months at least ( I can afford it) and going to make a trip  there again (like for 2 weeks) before the petition gets approved, and will also with her during her interview. I understand the CO's point of view also on this that the CO wants to see if the relationship is real.

6 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

This is a very common problem with many couples, big lavish engagement parties, religious engagement ceremonies that look too much like a wedding. 

Yeah. I think people should consider this fact if the intend to apply for a fiance visa.

10 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

As @geowrian said, the reason a denied K1 is sent back to eventually allow the petition to terminate is to avoid the potential for misrepresentation.  Of course as you go through the spousal visa process after you legally marry, you will have to disclose that a K1 was applied for and denied.  That however is relatively common particularly for some countries, so I would focus on that at this point assuming that is what the two of you decide.  The other option of course is for you to go there.

 

Good Luck!

Thanks again. Do you mean by terminating a petition USCIS basically remove the "misrepresentation" tag from the beneficiary's profile?

3 minutes ago, Daphne K said:

For a visit you mean? It is unlikely for somebody to get a visitor’s visa approved with proven pas immigrant intent (which would be the spousal visa). 

 

Obviously if the spousal visa gets denied too, she will need another visa which might be tricky.

 

But there is no reason that the spousal visa would be denied just because the K1 was denied. When you decide to get married and apply for the spousal visa, make sure that you have plenty of visits so your relationship will develop further.

 

And as I stated before, living in the US should not be the end goal, right? Being married and being able to be together would be the goal I assume?

Thanks for the reply. I meant if she will ever be able to get a spousal visa if the spousal visa gets denied first time because let's assume there was something serious on her profile because of the K1 visa denial. I am just assuming the worst scenario.

13 minutes ago, Nitas_man said:

In the case of K1 the case is returned and it languishes until it expires.  

It does not sound like you were told exactly what was missing so it could be any combination of the things that you guessed, including the photos that even you called “wedding pictures”.  Many times K1 visas are denied because it looks like the couple had a wedding ceremony.

Did you email the embassy at all and get any information before the case was returned?

Your only option seems to be to return and marry then file an I-130 for spousal visa.  

 

Yeah, like out of many possible reasons I also think that the CO might have taken my engagement pictures as wedding pictures. I emailed and faxed them a formal letter after the interview requesting them to give me reason but they replied back to my email within 2 days telling me that I need to contact USCIS as they are sending the petition back to them. It was a very fast action, I thought they would take a couple of months to send my petition back to USCIS.

4 hours ago, Daphne K said:

Would that be a reason not to marry her? What would happen if her spousal visa would be denied too?

 

The worst case scenario would be that you both would live somewhere else in case her spousal visa gets denied too.

 

But you still have options for the spousal route, time to see each other more, and the evidence of a genuine relationship/marriage will come kind of naturally. 

Will she be able to come to US eventually if that happens (denial of spousal visa)? Thanks.

3 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

If they denied the K1 because they thought you appeared too married for a fiancé visa, then it should cause no issues if you pursue a spousal visa.

Don't they take it as a misrepresentation which can be taken as a fraud?

9 hours ago, geowrian said:

NOID is issued before approval of the petition.

NOIR is issued after approval of the petition (there's nothing to revoke before it's approved...).

A termination notice is issued when the validity period of the petition expires. This is the case for a returned I-129F. There's a more in depth reason for this, but the short version is it avoids a potential misrepresentation bar. 

Hi thank you for the information. I didn't know all this. Could you please let me know what do you mean by "there's a more in depth reason for this....". ? I want to proceed with the marriage but I am having trouble knowing how safe it is to do it when people say that I must find the reason of refusal and I think I won't be able to find the reason after the petition is terminated. Thanks.

1 hour ago, missileman said:

I'm not sure why you thought you would get a NOID.  The normal procedure for a denied K-1 is to send it back to USCIS to expire...which is exactly what happened......If the CO thought you were married as evidenced by "wedding" pictures, then the best option is to get legal marriage documentation and apply for a spousal visa.  However, if there was another reason, then marriage might not be the remedy.  If the K-1 petition was sent back due to missing items, them you could reapply for a K-1 (if you knew what items were missing)......but, even then, a CR-1 would probably be a better option.

 

Your fiance could contact USCIS or a Congressperson to try to determine why the case was returned.....that is really the first step.....determining the reason....

Thanks. I think I kept reading on these forums that I will get NOID, NOIR, or nothing. Looks like I mixed up different cases reading here. Do you know by any chance what kind of reasons can cause trouble during spousal visa interview? None of us have any criminal record.  I will also look into contacting a congressperson.

Just now, Bill & Katya said:

What documents were incomplete?

Well, they didn’t mention what they think is missing and we were also never asked for the missing documents. 

3 minutes ago, ilovelondon said:

most k1 refusal because the don't trust its true relationship.i guess yours because they think you have married

In this case, if We marry will it create some trouble during the interview again for spousal visa?

Just now, Bill & Katya said:

In your OP you mentioned it was refused as being incomplete.  Did the CO ask for something that was not provided?

I was expecting that we would be asked for the incomplete documents but they sent the petition back to US within a week!!!