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22 hours ago, Moca_Madness said:

I am asking to see what it looks like. I just filed but all I see is what happens when couples are successful. So I am asking what the other end looks like. Have to be prepared for anything!

We were denied at the embassy interview for K1. Due to them not believing it was legitimate, not displaying adequate intent to marry. The petition is now going back to USCIS and USCIS has told me as of Tues,  they are going to review it. So fingers crossed they reaffirm. 

36 minutes ago, geowrian said:

Financial means and the ability to get time off are relevant personally for how often you can see each other.

However, they don't have a meaning for immigration purposes. COs are not concerned about one's ability to take off work or not.

I understand and I am not arguing against it. I'm only responding to questions about going once before filing the first time. I just don't feel it should be a good gauge of how serious someone is, but at the same time, I understand the CO side of it. 

1 hour ago, kingdomcome84 said:

like everyone else suggested, best go with the CR1 route. Why wait another 8-10months to find out if you get denied again. the consulate keep track of individuals who got denied previously. very bad idea to re-file K1

 

1 visit you made within the K1 timeline is a very poor indication of a serious relationship. And you not being able to take time off isn't an excuse of why you couldn't take more trips

I work in a casino where I can't just take time off anytime I want to. I get enough vacation for about two weeks a year to visit. I went back again and used up my vacation for the year already, I'll be at the  next interview and that's because I've already talked to my boss and the entire trip for the interview is unpaid time off. 

Like someone mentioned, I can quit my job and go there for a month or two, and than what? I would need to find a co sponsor to even file. Just because I don't have the luxury of taking off whenever I want to, doesn't mean our relationship is any less serious over anyone else's. 

11 hours ago, AndrewF said:

Mmmmmm... I agree with the OP.  If you meet someone and make a connection with them, I don't think it's unreasonable or strange to send them $$ to help their quality of life.  Does that open you to being scammed?  Definitely.  But, if you are intelligent and make the decision to due based on the unique circumstances of your relationship, I think it is understandable.

And it was quite awhile into our relationship when I chose to do so.  She never asked prior or even hinted that she wanted any money from me. I don't see it as a bad thing, but a consular viewpoint might be entirely different for someone to send their fiance money. 

7 hours ago, Jorgedig said:

People are here are genuinely trying to help you, and what it boils down to is that you relationship lacks believability, likely due to only the one visit. 

And I appreciate the help. But I didn't find a comment of,  "Why send money, she has family in the U.S to support her." Friendly or helpful.  

I am happy to answer any questions, there is no point in me hiding or lying about anything. I've been back to Cambodia, I have many third party signed affidavits from friends, family and co workers. She has some too. I have a letter from my mom who is offering to marry us at her house, she is legally able to marry people. 

I understand that people say just go CR-1, it takes away the question of us marrying. Everything I've read about a foreigner to marry in Cambodia, you have to be in the country for 30+ days, you have to make $2500 a month. To be able to be in Cambodia for 30 or more days, I'd have to quit my job, that leads me to not being able to meet the threshold for monthly income. 

She would be supporting two people now on her income, until I could find work. I know a CR-1 would be better, but a K1 allows me to keep my job and focus on saving money for our future. Which is why I am wanting to re file with a lot more evidence, and hope they see we really do love each other this time and will marry. 

1 hour ago, Boiler said:

It was not sarcasm and I seriously doubt the issue is your motives.

 

How did she support herself before you were on the scene, why do you need to send her money now.

 

I do not want to repeat the previous thread, this has been gone into in some detail.

 

I wasn't intending it to. But people asked questions, so I answered. 

She obviously got by, but it wasn't like she had a lot of extra money, she couldn't fix her motorbike if it broke, like I mentioned in another comment, I sent money because I felt it would help to show we are in an actual relationship and to show I help her with support. 

She never asked for money, and she told me to just save the money for our wedding that I would be sending. 

I'm sorry, it just feels like there is some animosity here. 

2 hours ago, Boiler said:

Why send 💰, she has family in the US to support her.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm. But she doesn't get monetary support from her family in the U.S. I've been busting my a trying to get her here with me. The stress, especially after the denial is nothing I've ever experienced before, and it's heartbreaking. I know there isn't anything I can do to show people every single thing I've done for her, flying there, all the fees, is out of my own pocket. 

22 minutes ago, Umka36 said:

I'm not sure if that embassy allows you to be at her interview, but something to explore as well. Sending money before meeting is odd, was that some form of dowry?

The embassy in Phnom Penh allows the petitioner to be inside, but it's at the CO discretion if they allow both at the window. 

Not a dowry, she is an architect there, but still only makes around $400 USD per month, so in my eyes it was to help support her. To me, it was showing we are a couple in love. I didn't start sending her money until we were a year or so into our relationship. And she never asked for it, I just did it. 

And it wasn't just a quick few month relationship and file.  It was a year and a half after we first started talking I went to visit her and proposed. 

2 hours ago, geowrian said:

Bingo. It appears the CO believes the relationship is an arrangement to bypass the longer waits of other family members petitioning the beneficiary, not anything about intent to marry.

If I could get the time off of work, I'd go every few months for a week  or two if I could. I work at a Casino, where I only get so much vacation per year. So I'm just trying to do the best I can with what's available. 

It's not a problem of not wanting to go. Or us not wanting to see each other. 

1 hour ago, JFH said:

You sent money 6 times but visited once? Would have been better to visit 6 times and send money once.

 

Did you send money before you visited?

 

I agree with the others that the CO believes this is just a way to by-pass the very long waits for sibling or adult child immigration. He will have seen that so many times before that it's not at all a far-fetched idea. Marrying and filing a CR-1 might be better. Best of all would be you immigrating to Cambodia, at least for a year or so. After all, if you just want to be together then location is irrelevant?

I sent 6 times before visiting. She has a good job there, so she always told me just save the money for our wedding and honeymoon. And I've heard so many conflicting things with K1 and money. Some say send, some say only send money if you're already married. 

10 hours ago, FaithProfessoR said:

What are your chances for a second interview?  I am no expert but I have read in my fiancee country sub-forums a case that they were denied because the CO did not believed that the relationship was real. And they requested a second interview with the CO but this time with the petitioner the request was accepted plus they manage to get approved.

 

here is the link to her timeline see the notes in the comment section. Idk if you are still in time for that because it seems that she requested that really quick. And the other fact is a different country. 

 

But I agree what other has said if the K1 was denied the best comeback is the CR1 with more evidence.

 

Best of luck✌🏻

 

https://www.visajourney.com/timeline/profile.php?id=287975

We've asked the embassy for a second interview,  they didn't offer.  I'm saying the next interview after refilling a new K1. 

11 hours ago, JFH said:

Don’t try too hard with the pictures. Did they look at any pictures during the interview? Pictures and chat logs are not really enough to show a bona fide relationship. I’m more interested to hear how the interview went, which questions were asked and how she answered. I think that’s what you should be focusing on, not how many pictures you have and how many different ways 

Sorry for the mess, but this is how she sent me that the interview went. 

The consular greet in Khmer (He said hello and praise his hands in Cambodian way) and I responded in the same way. Consular: who do you come with? Me: I come by myself.
Consular: how do you know your petitioner?
Me: we were introduced by my auntie. They are friend and coworker too.
Consular: (Raised his hand up) would you raise your hand up and only tell the truth? Me: (raised my hand up and responded with Yes, then i had my four fingers scan again) Consular: How old are you: Me: I am 27
Consular: How old is your fiancé? Me: 37 Consular: 37? Me: Yes. Consular: What is his address? (I could not understand what he was saying then I said “sorry”. Then he repeated his question, but I could not understand what he was saying, then I said sorry again and then he asked “where dose your fiancé live?”
Me: house number ... (the consular finishes my answer with “Southeast) Me: Yes. Consular: You are an architect in Peng Huoth Group? Me: Yes

Consular: Your address is ... Me: Yes.
Consular: you have your family in The United States? Me: Yes, my mom and my sister. Consular: Is your sister in Ankeney? Me: No, she’s in Demoines. Consular: is your mom in Demiones: Me: She’s not in Demiones. She’s in Texas now. Consular: What does she do there?
Me: she’s there helps a family look after their baby. Consular: is your aunt in Demoines: Me: she’s in Ankeney.

The consular looked at pile of proof and he picked and counted receipt from western union and said “he sent you money 5 times” then he look again and said “6 times” Me: yes.
Then he picked a few page of Facebook chat randomly and read for just short moment. Then he opened picture album and look for seconds. Consular: were your parents in the engagement? Me: Yes, my mom and my sister came to my egagment. Consular: did his parents come to the engagement? Me: No.
Consular: why your fiancé came only once?
(I paused in that question, because I needed to think how to respond in English and tried to think for answer too). The consular said “it’s better to have a translator” then he called for a translator.
From here the interview started with the translator. It was overweening; it was like I didn’t have much time and the consular did not look to me much.
Me: Because he came to the engagement to take me there (The United State).

Consular: What is his parents’ name?
Me: His mom is .... His dad is .... . Consular: what do they do?
Me: His mom is an author. His dad is a boat builder. Consoler: Dose your fiancé has chidrend? Me: No.
Consular: Dose he has brother or sister?   Me: He has a sister. Consular: what is her name? Me: .... Consular: where dos she live? Me:....
Consular: What does she do? Me: HR.
Consular: How old are you? Me: 27
Consular: How old is your fiancé? Me:37
One question was sounded like he was making summery from my answer and sounded like “you introduce him to your sister?” in the end. I responded “yes”. And then the consoler said “once you said your aunt introduced you and once you said that your sister introduce you.” After that I understood what his question was and I did explain that I misunderstood him. I though he meant that “I told my sister about him after we were introduce from my aunt.” The translator made her translation and the guy responded “No”.
About the translator, in this question I didn’t wait for her translation sometimes, because I was not aware that I misunderstood his question. I was not familiar with waiting for translation. Mostly I answer directly after his question.
In the end of the interview, the guy gave me a denial later and said sorry he could not approve

1 hour ago, Bynx24 said:

I suggest, if it's possible for you, to visit once more then filing and after going for the interview. I would wait a few months after the denial to file again and not do it so soon.

The denial was at the end of March, I went there in May. 

I'm assuming it would be better to cherry pick chat logs? The first time we filed I sent about 10 pages for each month we spoke. It was a very thick book of messages and call history. 

That way they don't have a pile to look at, quality over quantity I'm trying this time. 

But also sending quite a bit this time as well, to cover for the denial the first time. I also didn't send pictures the first time of us kissing, foreahed, cheek. Due to culture. This time we have more of us hugging a lot and much more close together and more pictures of kissing from each other.  Which could of given the flag the first time we weren't legitimate,  but, unfortunately I just followed the USCIS guide and wasn't 100% on the intricacies of what to send. 

I did read up some on what people sent, but many things were conflicting. And a lot was different due to difference in cultures. I really wish I knew of this forum the first time. 

43 minutes ago, Umka36 said:

Well what are you going to do different to address this issue? You will run into the same issue at the interview stage if nothing has changed.

I've been back to Cambodia since the denial to spend time with her, more pictures. And I'll be going back for the interview as well. 

1 minute ago, Umka36 said:

What was the reason for the denial? Need to address that first.

We got a 221G, they didn't believe the relationship was legitimate.  I just got back from Cambodia again and I wasnt able to get in to the Embasy, but they emailed and told me that, and also that the officer didn't believe my fiance displayed an adequate intent to marry in the US. They did say she doesn't have an ineligibility. And we can refile, but the current petition would be sent back to USCIS. 

The denial was back at the end of March 2019. 

Do I need to submit anything to USCIS about our old denied petition? Or am I able to just file this new petition? 

Also, on the I-129f, where it asks about any other filing for anyone. It's the same person, so would I put her A # from the I797 and also, it asks for filing date. Is that the date on the I797 also? Recieved date? 

Thanks. 

1 hour ago, Going through said:

A denied K1 is not able to be appealed.  It will be sent back and left to expire.  You will not receive a second interview.  Never heard of a NOIR received for a denied K1 (that is usually for visas that have been approved/issued and are being revoked---not for visas that were denied from the outset, as yours was).

 

The letter above that you posted also specifically says that no additional evidence will be accepted in support of the (denied) K1...not sure what you think you are able to "argue with  more proof" of at this point.

 

Your best course of action at this point is to marry and file the CR-1 spouse visa.

What I am mainly wondering is that if I would re apply as K1 or CR1, I would have to withdraw the current petition correct? Or can I file another petition while this one would be "left to expire"? 

Would that hit her with a ban once I ask them to cancel this current petition, is it worth the time and money to reapply, if she is only going to have a bar on her anyway? I'm sorry this is so confusing for me,  I am stressed out, I am trying me best to just get her here with me the right way. 

It's frustrating that I have a denial that just states " belief of false statements in the petition", how could I just figure out the exact issue? This could all be fixed in a refile, but I still have no idea what will happen. I know from other people posting I can refile at anytime. 

Do I just take it at face value that if the email states I can re apply and it doesn't mention grounds of fraud and material misrepresentation,  than we wont have to worry about her having a bar. 

Again I apologize,  but I'm just running myself ragged trying to figure everything out.

I made a post a little while back about our K1 denial. Sorry if this question should of just been a continuation of that thread. 

I received an email from the Embassy that says this. 

[Dear Mr. Redacted 

Thank you for your email.

A review of our records indicates Ms. Redacted was interviewed on March 21, 2019, and the visa was not issued. The interviewing officer was unable to determine the claimed relationship between you and Ms. Redacted was genuine nor confirm their intent to marry in the United States. The Consular Chief concurred with the interviewing officer’s decision, concluding the adjudication was conducted in accordance with U.S. Immigration law. The case is in the process of returning to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for possible revocation, and no additional evidence will be accepted in support of the visa application at this time. Should you have additional questions on this case, you will need to contact USCIS for information.

Per USCIS, returned I-129F petitions for K-1 classification from the Department of State (DOS) which have expired in accordance with 8 CFR214.2(k)(5) will remain expired, and USCIS will not reaffirm or reopen the petition. Please note this does not preclude the petitioner from filing another petition.

We hope this information is helpful.]

So, that was from me personally emailing them and asking for justification of the denial. Reading about this, it will get sent back and I will get a NOIR I can argue with more proof of the relationship. I have plans to go out again April 10th to see her and go visit Thailand maybe or somewhere close by as a vacation together. Since Khmer new year is the 13th, she will have extra days off work. 

My main questions are, after coming back, would it be wise to either wait for the NOIR or withdraw the petition and re apply for a K1? 

I've contemplated going there and just getting married,  but that will require me to be there for at least a month. And would also require my job to allow me unpaid time off while gone. 

Considering her denial letter was a 221g, but also at the bottom stated grounds of fraud and misrepresentation. If I withdraw without arguing the NOIR, will that immediately hit her with a Fraud or misrepresentation? I have all supporting legal documents to show nothing said was a lie, it was just a paperwork mix up with mothers current and maiden name. She said current legal name and current address. I-129f has maiden and city of birth. I wont go into it too much, I did make a whole post about the situation.  

My main questions/concerns are about re applying or waiting for the NOIR, I should be getting one of those for a K1 correct? It stated the petition being sent back, but didn't clarify about a NOIR. Since I plan to go visit her the 10th, and will have a whole bunch of new pictures, her coworkers and boss know of us, I never met her boss, but she wants to introduce me to him when I get there, she said if we need a letter from him at least stating he is aware of our relationship and her intentions to marry in the U.S, this is all stuff I can send to fight a NOIR and try for a second interview to show we really love each other and are going through great lengths to show the Consulate we just want to get married and start a family. 

So this will be my second visit, for another 13 days. I can get 13 or so days paid each year at my workplace, so I use them to visit her. 

Sorry for a wall of text, I can go into any other details if anyone needs clarification on anything I didn't post or overlooked since I am writing this on my break at work.

Thank you. 

3 hours ago, geowrian said:

Boblawblawslawblog1 stated questionable advice and incorrect information (notably that USCIS will even look at a returned I-129F...they stopped that years ago). He also claims to have been a prosecutor...interesting transition. 🤷‍♂️

The other guy gets it. No idea if he is or was a CO or not, but the advice is pretty solid.

The attorney's advice seems somehow less reliable than Bob (it won't hurt your case to contact the embassy and ask questions)...and with a much higher fee.

 

Nothing you've noted ITT or on reddit constitutes a material misrep. So either it's something else you aren't aware of yet, the charge is wrong but they believe a material misrep was made , or there is no misrep bar. At the same time, it rubs me as unusual for a CO to use those words both in the interview and then again in the refusal notice by accident and/or incorrectly. Sure they make mistakes, but relying on it being a mistake is something I would only do personally once the embassy confirmed it or all other reasonable possibilities are exhausted.

 

The more I look at the letter and compare it to others, the more I'm leaning to it being poor wording referring to a P6C1 so-called fraud marker (basically requesting USCIS to review the petition for fraud before actually finding fraud/misrep as an inadmissibility).

 

Background info on P6C1...

P = quasi-refusal

6C1 = INA 212(a)(6)(C)(i), AKA Misrepresentation (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182)

 

9 FAM 302.9-4(B)(8)(a) https://fam.state.gov/fam/09FAM/09FAM030209.html

"Misrepresentations in Family Relationship Petitions:  USCIS retains exclusive authority to deny or revoke family-relationship immigrant visa (IV) petitions.  Thus, a misrepresentation with respect to entitlement to the classification based on the relationship, e.g., a sham marriage in an IR-1 case, cannot be deemed material as long as the petition remains valid.  Upon discovery of a misrepresentation, you must return the petition to the appropriate USCIS office via the National Visa Center.  If the petition is revoked, the materiality of the misrepresentation is established. In some cases, the relationship and petition may still be valid, but the alien may misrepresent eligibility for the classification in a different way that is not relevant to the petition's validity, and would thus still be ineligible under INA 212(a)(6)(C)(i)."

 

The item in bold above will not occur. For an I-129F. USCIS lets it sit to expire by policy and then terminate it  - they do not revoke it. No revocation = no automatic misrepresentation simply as a result of being ineligible for the visa.

It was never mentioned to her that she was denied due to the Fraud or Misrep (what is on the denial letter) during the interview. The only word of it is in the denial letter. She said she asked what we can do and he told her I could re apply,  but this petition is done.  

On the part of the petition needing to be revoked for the Misrep to be material, and it would just sit to expire. If that is the case and that happens, I guess we wouldn't know for sure at the moment. But let's say that is what happens to my petition. I file for a CR-1 later this year, would it still be somewhat of an issue to obtain one, keep in mind if I have all required amounts of proof needed to be eligible for the CR-1, would this petition return cause issues down the road?

As for the rest of the information,  thank you. I appreciate all the time you have taken out of your day to respond here. 

On 3/24/2019 at 8:17 PM, Boiler said:

Proof of relationship is certainly something time and money can solve.

So as an update, I talked with one Attorney and they suggested to not go to my Senators office, as it could hurt my case with the Embassy not liking those offices contacting them? 

The Attorney did say if she would need a Fraud Waiver,  it would cost around a minimum of $7500. Some people that looked at the denial letter have also said it is a generic denial letter,  and quite possibly the interviewing officer accidentally put the wrong verbiage into the 221(g) check box. This was from someone who said they used to adjudicate petitions in S.E Asia. 

So, I'm just kind of in a confused spot again. With some saying it needs a Fraud Waiver most likely and some saying it is not a "Ban", otherwise the 212(a) box would be checked with verbiage in there about what the ban is for and what sub sections it entails. 

Because as far as I've been reading, Fraud itself, the Alien needs to knowingly lie to gain access to a Visa. Misrep, would be falsifying documents of words in attempt to gain a Visa, but not getting the Visa. 

This is a link to a reddit post I created. That post is what actually brought me here as someone in there linked to this site. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/immigration/comments/b4pc40/k1_visa_denial_at_embassy_level_have_questions/

25 minutes ago, geowrian said:

There is nothing preventing her from reapplying. Reapplying doesn't bypass a ban (if there is one). There is also a waiver that can be submitted if there is a ban.

She was determined to be ineligible for the visa. That might not be the case in a future application.

 

One must first be otherwise eligible for the visa. Only then will they assess any inadmissibilities.

This is all making more sense now.  So is there a way to actually know if they did issue a ban without filing again. Or is that something my Senators office can confirm corresponding with the Embassy? 

Or maybe it's something the Lawyer can affirm. I'm not worried about the time or money required to get this done. She means too much to me to worry about that. My concern is them not believing, even with all my documents and proof of our relationship.  

39 minutes ago, Boiler said:

They refused it as they did not believe there was a valid relationship. Sent it back to die.

 

A ban is for a reason, might turn into one if they can get past the valid relationship issue.

 

There is no waiver for lack of valid relationship.

 

Misrep ban is 212 A 6 C1.

So here is a question.  She asked the Interview officer what she could do. He said she can re apply, but this form is done. So if it was a full Misrep ban, why would he say I can re apply? Just to get the money from fees again? 

I'm just curious because the form is hard to understand,  outside the actual send back on Misrep fraud. 

54 minutes ago, USS_Voyager said:

No, I think one thing can be done right now is to submit some sort of motion to reconsider to the Embassy if the OP is sure there was misrepresentation, but just a series of unfortunate errors. If you’re gonna fight it, fight it now. That’s why it is crucial to get a good lawyer who’s experienced and have had some successes in dealing and reversing Embassy’s decisions, and not some whack-job yahooo (those are out there too). You need to interview several lawyers and ask about their experiences.

 

If you are unable to convince the Embassy to drop the charge, then the only way is a waiver. The “good” news is the mother is a qualifying relative, as well as you (after you marry her)

Yeah, it was just some errors on the form. Nothing at all she said, and I believe her, was wrong in any legal sense or meant to hide anything. I can understand being fraud banned if it was an actual "attempt" to deceive the government to get her into the U.S. And I have respect for you all that are taking time out of your day to help. So I'm not going to hide anything, because what good would false answers do me at this stage. 

But nothing was ever an actual lie, which is what gives me some hope in it being overturned. Because I have everything that supports what was on the form, just mistakes made on my part. 

If we can at least get the mark lifted and they unfortunately won't offer a second interview,  I will fly there and marry her and submit a CR1. 

1 hour ago, Boiler said:

Have you decided on which basis you intend to go forward, will you marry first? All the above is of course a loooong way away.

First I'll be finding a good Immigration Attorney,  I have a few consultations set up to decide which one to go with. I need to find one that is good with Visa denials in that area. 

I'm also bringing all my documents I've gathered that show that nothing said was a lie, a hiccup on the form, but everything is legally accurate.  And bring those to the Senators office and see if they can get either the Misrep off, or request a second interview, one I will make sure I am at. 

Also give all these papers too the Attorney and see what they can do as well. Possibly with all this proof I have, the mark can be removed. 

43 minutes ago, accumbyte said:

Why did you submit form G-325A? G-325A is not needed after 06/09/2017: https://web.archive.org/web/20170427053222/https://www.uscis.gov/i-129f Furthermore, G-325A is now a Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals related form; the form is not for the K-1 process: https://www.uscis.gov/g-325a

I realized that after I sent it. The checklist I had, had it as a required document. I remember checking before going to Cambodia, because I had to bring some for her signature.