merijan

Ill remember him as an innocent child, because I am telling my age now, I remember his first two songs that where popular when I was a kid. ABC and Ben .. the Jackson Five Ill remember that... and of course he was a tortured soul as an adult.

This is a funny topic ( not hahah funny) if you live where I live. Fresno, California where Spanish is spoken everywhere, and many many jobs in business, medical and government require you to be bilingual speaking Spanish.

Magreb is liberal so not much honour killings. But who knows more and more insane ppl coming from ME to NA ... with the extreme religion ... stupid chit like will come too!

Actually its not "extreme religion" its extreme ingnorance . Also people always talk about those things that happen in other countries. However does anyone watch the news here in USA.. umm well there are alot of killings of wifes , children, and whole familys by the husband, the boyfriend, the father, the wife even. so it happens here to. Only we never say honor killilngs.

Here we go again. I dont think u want it to end . First of all you are acting as if he is the American and u are the foreigner in a strange land. Hello....You are the American this is ur country, ur laws u act as if he has all the cards. No judge will honor a marriage contract from another country, I cant see a judge giving the house or part of it to him , leaving u a single mother with kids and where to go. AND even in the worst case senerio that happens. You go to a small apartment, you have little furniture BUT GUESS what ...you have ur sanity, ur pride, ur dignity, and most of all ur KIDS dont have to suffer by seeing all this insanity. ........must I go on.

Once again , spoken from experience, If you want the abuse to end u will do it. But if u are still finding ways to stay , to try to beat a dead horse, then ur not going to leave.

I have never been banned. And I think the reasons for banning are personal attacks and racist comments. EXCEPTION if they are about Muslims or Palestinians anything goes.. Oh well who said everything is fair.

Thank you for sharing.

Persecution complex, much?

truth is the truth. read the posts in off topic more often.

I have never been banned. And I think the reasons for banning are personal attacks and racist comments. EXCEPTION if they are about Muslims or Palestinians anything goes.. Oh well who said everything is fair.

First of all my husband is from Pakistan and he was a photojournalist there. I can tell u I have watched many news shows with him And its funny how we here in USA think of other countries. We think only we have "freedom of press". Well let me tell u they talk and they talk alot about politics there. More than u would think. They can beat Saturday nite live when it comes to makeing fun of their leaders. Beleive me they have no limits.

Where I live I have had no real problems with people. Yes sometimes people make a comment under their breath or give a funny look. But very rare. In my city and as well as many others there are doctors, surgeons, dentists, teacher all Muslim. So its what u make of it. Yes people are ignorant here about the world because, unless u have had the experience to know someone from other countries u only beleive what u see on tv, movies and the news. Unfortunetly the media does not show how many Pakistanis there are that do not , nor ever will support the Taliban. Infact its funny bec. the US supported them in the past. But the media and our govt puts fear into our hearts, and makes it look as if all Pakistanis are full of rage and burnig our flags.

Every country has prejudice. In Pakistan you know what those are. Every country has corruption and games in the govt.

but the T.V is showing what some people want it to show.

its biased.

you can see on yahoo news and everywhere on the internet

media presenting fake things to the world without evidence.

I am happy that you have finally figured this out. There are always two sides to a story.

What we don't see is how many Muslims are helping to eliminate the terrorists. Maybe if they did that, then other folks would have a different attitude.

Congratulations

Happy for you

we discuss any major decision, appliances, cars, electronics, etc and we talk to each other when we're buying something out of the ordinary, things that we don't buy every day, like when i spent $300 on cloth diapers the other day, we discussed it first, i didn't just go and bought it. we usually don't just go and buy stuff without talking to each other first, unless for example i'm buying brazilian food online, or he's working on something in the house and he needede to replace, things like that.

Charles works on things in the house??? r u sure???

I agree we all need to respect each other. And if I hated Christians I would not love my mom,father, brothers etc. However I do disagree with the statement that we as Muslims believe in a different God. Because we believe in God who created the world, we beleive he created Adam we beleive there was Abraham, Moses, Noah, we cant be Muslim if we dont beleive in Jesus . However we dont beleive him to be God or Son of God.

One other thing is that there are differences in Christian bellief as well because the Church I grew up in never said Jesus was God but he was God's Son. So that is confussing to me because we were never taught he was God. We were taught the Trinity wich is God, the Son, and the holy spirit .

Just some thoughts I wanted to share.

wow im so glad u shared that! see as a Muslim i have never felt comfortable just going up to a Christian and asking what they believe in.

so what ever im learning about Christians is coming from this thread as i said before i have read the bible as well as our quran, but it does not mean i understand the bible.

sara

Certainly there are so many things we should understand and learn from each other.

I was raised in a real Christian family. My father was a teacher, minister, elder my brothers were booth involed. My oldest is now a minister for a small congregation. My mother taught classes and I did as well. I went to a Christian college and studied alot about the Bible. So my journey to Islam was not so quick and easy. And even after I became Muslim I had many times of weakness.

Because the media fills us with so many misconceptions, becaus people who have political and hate filled desires give the world a false impression of Islam, we have to defend it all the time. But there are many cases where that is put aside and people of faith work together , however thats never shown on tv or the news.

I agree we all need to respect each other. And if I hated Christians I would not love my mom,father, brothers etc. However I do disagree with the statement that we as Muslims believe in a different God. Because we believe in God who created the world, we beleive he created Adam we beleive there was Abraham, Moses, Noah, we cant be Muslim if we dont beleive in Jesus . However we dont beleive him to be God or Son of God.

One other thing is that there are differences in Christian bellief as well because the Church I grew up in never said Jesus was God but he was God's Son. So that is confussing to me because we were never taught he was God. We were taught the Trinity wich is God, the Son, and the holy spirit .

Just some thoughts I wanted to share.

No one is assuming you hate anyone, no one is hating on anyone either. Certainly not I, as I have muslim family, christian family, and jewish family. Im well rounded in that aspect, but I have my own beliefs that I believe strongly about. I personally think there is alot of people in all religions that dont study enough to find out what they really believe or what is truth.

I agree with you. And I do agree alot of people dont study enough to find out the truth. And I am glad I did study alot that is what brought me to Islam. I think having different bleifs in people you love makes you more tolerant and respectfull to others.

I agree we all need to respect each other. And if I hated Christians I would not love my mom,father, brothers etc. However I do disagree with the statement that we as Muslims believe in a different God. Because we believe in God who created the world, we beleive he created Adam we beleive there was Abraham, Moses, Noah, we cant be Muslim if we dont beleive in Jesus . However we dont beleive him to be God or Son of God.

One other thing is that there are differences in Christian bellief as well because the Church I grew up in never said Jesus was God but he was God's Son. So that is confussing to me because we were never taught he was God. We were taught the Trinity wich is God, the Son, and the holy spirit .

Just some thoughts I wanted to share.

But I thought we were a "civilized" society.. I mean we "have" to go other countries to make them 'civilized".. hmmm maybe we should remember this story along with many many more that happen here before we try to pass judgement on others....

The title of this thread states it is for general chat for muslims or anyone interested in participating. The theme clearly states that this thread is for Muslim interests and that is the perspective of those who chose to participate. No where do I see that this thread invites challenges or discussion about the validity of Islam vs any other religion, nor do I get the impression from the majority of the thread participants that this is a direction they wish to pursue.

As a moderator I am suggesting that those who are interested in discussing the merits of one religious belief vs another - or none - start a separate thread to pursue that issue and leave the arguments off of this thread. I appreciate that the participants have been very patient during the preceding discussions, but believe they are right - this is not the thread for this type of discussion. Please do not continue it here. Start a new thread for that purpose if you wish to continue.

Thanks, its appreciated.

i'm just counting all the ways this can backfire on them........

The weasels in DC (Bush, Reid, Frist, Pelosi, et al) won't let it backfire on them. They will get exactly what they want.

Yes, they will. And people will forget about it all and vote them right back into office. Sad state of affairs.

I agree...

by the way Beautiful baby... so cute..

Here you go again, assuming all Muslims think as you do. They don't. I had coffee with a Muslim friend just recently and we found many areas that we agree on. Tolerance was one value... for ALL BELIEFS.

Try it sometime

Good for you..So take your own advice... be tollerant of what We as Muslims believe..And its funny because no body called you any names, no one tried to threaten you, or even judge you..We simply said if you want to discuss YOUR beleives start your own thread... Its very interesting how you dont get that..

So keen are you to angrily respond to any views different to yours that you just repeat the same stuff without reading my reply.

Which part of the thread's title "Muslims: Or anyone interested in participating" don't you get?

My comments started been about the insistence that Islam is for everyone and a my point (shared by many others) that is absolutely isn't. Is Christianity for everyone? Judaism? Tree Worshipping? Sun Gods? I haven't gone into deeper debate. Petty point scoring about whose faith is better/truer is better left to Christians and Muslims.

And your participating how????????????????????????? Anyway whatever ..I just think its funny how you enjoy it so much.. Anyway been there done all that.. came to Islam after alot of debate with the same things you are spouting.. so what do you want to say by comeing here?? thats what I wonder.. How angry you must be at Muslims.. after reading what you wrote.. Interesting....

Why don't you guys start a new thread titled 'Muslims: Only those in complete agreement with what we say may post"? To feel insulted because someone disagrees with some of the statements here is childish and immature thinking. What alarms me is that you want to exist in some kind of forum 'Islamic' bubble, when the world isn't like this. Not everyone agrees with your beliefs and comment was invited. That seems reasonable to me. I have been told by a Mulsim that I hate God. I am not in the least insulted, because I know it is not true. Also, people can think what they like. It doesn't harm me at all - as long as they don't try to interfere with my civil and legal rights. I have the courage of my convictions.

I am sick of hearing some Muslims bleat on about how hurt they are when someone makes the mildest of comments. Grow up. It's thinking like this that leads to idiots burning the American flag or rioting because a teacher names a teddy bear after a prophet. It is irrational and silly. Like God would be intimidated by even the fiercest critics. There are many tolerant, secular Muslims who are strong enough to see differences in opinions for what they are.

I dont mind talking to people about Islam or even their own religions but it has to be done from my side and theirs with respect for each other and what their believes are i felt that coming in here and starting this was like me going to someones church and start telling why i felt their religion was wrong or what was wrong with their religion.

You just don't get it, do you? There are many people in the world today who are not religious, yet respect your right to believe what you like and live as you like. You assume everyone is religious. People on this thread make wide sweeping statements, as though the whole world thinks and believes as you do. Failing to recognise that this is a flaw doesn't help Islam.

Hmmm... interesting ... Beleive whatever you choose... go and start a thread for that. But I find it interesting how you choose to come on here and spout your thinking. Who cares.. beleive what you will but as we stated before this is not the place for it. Start your own thread..And by the way I dont see you respecting our right to have our own thread for Muslims.. thats kind of ironic now isnt it..

"im trying really hard to keep my temper.

it is ok to come and talk about Islam or to ask questions but bashing it? come on u dont see us go to any thread about Christians and bash them do u?

as a Muslim i respect the rights of others for what ever religion they practice, i do not go on their threads and be critical of their way of practicing their religion plz use some respect when coming to a thread where the main topic is about Islam, as we respect others on their religious threads

sara"

"u dont see us go to any thread about Christians and bash them do u?"

This thread is about Muslims, isn't it?

I wouldn't lose my temper simply because people express different beliefs. I welcome everyone's opinions. Until Muslims learn to live with the fact that many people don't respect the content of their faith, yet respect their right to believe as they wish and be treated equally, there will always be clashes when such discussions arise. You can't force people to believe in what appears crazy to them. Well, you can, if you are unfortunate enough to live in countries dominated by religious zealots, dogma and doctrine. Say what you like about Christianity. I couldn't care less. Neither could most Christians, as they have learned the advantages of living in secular societies and criticism is rarely seen as a threat to their faith.

Many Muslims are taught in Egypt that secularism is a dirty word, despite Egypt's lies about being a secular country. If people make comments about "Islam being for everyone", expect disagreement. It isn't for everyone. Neither is Christianity or Judaism or the other mainstream religions. Either deal with this ... and the real world. or live in a bubble of babble.

i guess u missed the point

sara

I guess you missed the answer.

did u come to stir the pot or is there a real issue that u would like to talk about?

sara

I think she came here to stir the pot.

The thing is, Ahmeds girl, you need to start your own thread about ur theorys of God, Islam, Judaism, Christianity etc.. Because it really does not matter to me what you believe, thats your choice. Since we have a brian to think you think how you choose. But the POINT here is that this is a thread about Islam. Where MUSLIMS can come and share different things with each other. If you want to spout your theorys please start another thread. But comeing in here and stirring the pot , well it seems you enjoy that.

u guys know that i dont post much on here, but i was having problems understanding why someone that had JUST joined vj felt the need to come and post these kinds of things, for me Islam is my life, and i found it insulting that someone could or would come on a thread that is about Islam and stir up so much mess. I dont mind talking to people about Islam or even their own religions but it has to be done from my side and theirs with respect for each other and what their believes are i felt that coming in here and starting this was like me going to someones church and start telling why i felt their religion was wrong or what was wrong with their religion.

there are a lot of new Muslims on this thread that are trying to find their way, this stuff she is doing in no way helps them.

sara

"im trying really hard to keep my temper.

it is ok to come and talk about Islam or to ask questions but bashing it? come on u dont see us go to any thread about Christians and bash them do u?

as a Muslim i respect the rights of others for what ever religion they practice, i do not go on their threads and be critical of their way of practicing their religion plz use some respect when coming to a thread where the main topic is about Islam, as we respect others on their religious threads

sara"

"u dont see us go to any thread about Christians and bash them do u?"

This thread is about Muslims, isn't it?

I wouldn't lose my temper simply because people express different beliefs. I welcome everyone's opinions. Until Muslims learn to live with the fact that many people don't respect the content of their faith, yet respect their right to believe as they wish and be treated equally, there will always be clashes when such discussions arise. You can't force people to believe in what appears crazy to them. Well, you can, if you are unfortunate enough to live in countries dominated by religious zealots, dogma and doctrine. Say what you like about Christianity. I couldn't care less. Neither could most Christians, as they have learned the advantages of living in secular societies and criticism is rarely seen as a threat to their faith.

Many Muslims are taught in Egypt that secularism is a dirty word, despite Egypt's lies about being a secular country. If people make comments about "Islam being for everyone", expect disagreement. It isn't for everyone. Neither is Christianity or Judaism or the other mainstream religions. Either deal with this ... and the real world. or live in a bubble of babble.

i guess u missed the point

sara

I guess you missed the answer.

did u come to stir the pot or is there a real issue that u would like to talk about?

sara

I think she came here to stir the pot.

The thing is, Ahmeds girl, you need to start your own thread about ur theorys of God, Islam, Judaism, Christianity etc.. Because it really does not matter to me what you believe, thats your choice. Since we have a brian to think you think how you choose. But the POINT here is that this is a thread about Islam. Where MUSLIMS can come and share different things with each other. If you want to spout your theorys please start another thread. But comeing in here and stirring the pot , well it seems you enjoy that.

Why have a "God" at all except to elevate yourself as God in your own mind, since that is where your "God" originates?

Is 'your' God even original? Islam simply borrowed from Christianity, which borrowed from Judaism... which was heavily influenced by ancient Egypt. Mankind has always sought an explanation for why we are here. I don't need religious rules and dogma to tell me what is right and wrong. You do. Of course, 'your' God is different from the God worshipped outside the Abrahamic religions, so all of those must be wrong, mustn't they? All of those who have completely different spiritual beliefs (or none) are less worthy in the eyes of 'your' God, are they? That seems sane to you? I am not an atheist, but they don't need to find God to be decent human beings, in my view. Religious people often try to assign any views that are not mainstream as less worthy and make lamentable statements like " A "God" of your own is certainly a made up "God". You don't get that 'your' God is entirely made up in the eyes many. God created our minds... and the ability to use them, in my opinion. Having lots of followers is no guarantee that a faith is the 'true one'... as the fall of the ancient Greek and Egyptian Gods demonstrates. There is no proof of 'God'... so individual beliefs are as valid as mainstream beliefs.

Religion is a by-product of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?

Arthur C. Clarke

I dont quite understand why you want to post on here. It is titled Muslim and it is for Muslims to talk. Clearly you dont believe in anything so why not start a thread for that. If you want dont want to beleive than dont . But you choose to come on this thread and post your contempt for those who do beleive.

Congratulations I am very happy for you.. such a long wait . these are the times we will remember that moment we know they are coming.

I have a question. I'm not Muslim. I don't know any converts personally so I figured that I would throw it out here. For all of you who converted, was it hard for you to adopt a whole new way of thinking about religion, especially after being raised Christians? How did you just stop believing everything that had been instilled on you? Was it hard to change your way of thinking and especially your views on Jesus?

BTW, I'm not bringing this up to stir the pot. I just genuinely would like to know how others feel.

Well I was raised in a strong Christian family. We were non denominational and my father and brothers where very invloved in ministry as well as my mom was a teacher. I was a teacher for Sunday school for many years. The one thing that gave me pause was that when the Bible was discussed it was done with taking of each scriputure and delving so deep into those words. The funny thing is when I went to Christian college as well I learned the truth of how each book of the New Testament was discovered, translated from this language to that language to English . How they were put together to be called The Holy Bible.. it made me question..

When I did become Muslim it was hard at first to profess Jesus as not being Son of God and in prayer to not ever say "in Jesus Name" all this was so second hand for me. But when I discovered how the prayer was in Islam and I realized how beautifull it was I was praying directly to God. Also the fact that I already new about all the prophets before, like Abraham (Ibrahim), Moses (Musa), Noah (Nuah) so this was not so hard . Also as I slowly learned how imprt ant and respected Jesus (Isa) is in Isalm, in the Quran I realized who he really was.

The same morals I learned as a Christian are the same in Islam, the same Charity, kindness etc is the same. The big difference to me is that in Islam there are even more guide lines for living our life. And all of them make sense.

The things installed in me are almost the same except that I now know Jesus true idetnity. And I now eat beef bacon.. And there are even more miracles from Allah than I realized. And I know that there are other aspects of my life that could have been better if I had known all this before.