BaBamSam

So you have existential concerns regarding threads on a message board.

To not spook you with big words or delve into further existential discussions: I was expressing my feelings as to how ridiculous this topic is.

What was the word supposed to be?

Well you could always reread it, as I corrected it, but it was intended to be "existing".

exiting?

Oh you pointed out a typo. Clearly your argument is completely validated now.

How is this thread even existing? I think this takes the cake for least rational comparison and least intelligent argument I've seen on this forum.

Looks like the rest of us December filers will be waiting still. Womp. At least we're in good company.

I don't particularly care about the drug testing bit (it's probably a waste of time and money - just like in Florida - but I don't have emotions towards it). The part that concerns me is holding children accountable and how that could easily backfire. Children from low-income families don't have the same access to medical care, so they get sick more. They might have to help take care of siblings, which distracts them. They don't get the same quality diet or lifestyle that other children get, which can cause a lot of stress on children and has been attributed to lower performance scores. These children already have enough responsibility in many cases - how's it going to be if they get mono or the flu and their family begrudges them for making them lose their money?

I understand the motive behind it - get kids in school, etc. - but what is it doing to actually solve the poverty/unemployment/welfare problems that run much much deeper?

I would advise asking your questions to the UK-specific forum as London is a totally unique embassy to go through. Sponsorship through London on the K-1 has more options than other embassies.

Congrats! Late by even CA standards. Have pleasant dreams tonight!

A week after my NOA1, which was April 8, 2013, I got an update that said "alien registration number changed". What does that mean?

It's normal to get one about a week or so after your NOA1 - doesn't mean anything regarding NOA2 or anything. I got that message on Dec. 31, and my NOA1 was Dec. 21st.

Other than an avatar/username/words on a screen - I don't know you, so how would I be able to assess your moral character?

However, as an adult if you condone/enable underage drinking then I would say your moral character is lacking.

Sure, most of use have have broken the rules and had transgressions of the law at one time or another; some more severe perhaps than others. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't make it acceptable. And violation of a federal law is certainly of a greater magnitude than violating a local civil ordinance.

The fact of the matter is that people who are willing to lie for personal gain, to flaunt the law are very likely to lie again for person gain and to disregard the law in the future because they've demonstrated a lack of respect which is a characteristic. Did you just describe every member of our government?[/b]

I'm not saying that minor infractions should be held against someone for the rest of their lives. A candidate for immigration needs to be assessed in totality in terms of what they bring and the circumstances by which they find themselves immigrating. But willful violation of the law shouldn't be blindly tolerated - all other considerations being equal, preference should be given to those who have demonstrated respect for the laws of the country they wish to live in.

Yes I went to school. Eight years after high school. Never cheated. Didn't need to. I had a good friend who was kicked out of an incredible graduate program in his third year because he was caught cheating - he was (still is) my friend, but without a doubt he deserved what he got.

Again, just because it happens doesn't mean that it is acceptable or right. That's where kids get the understanding that its not only okay, but acceptable, to break the rules to get ahead ... and for some this escalates into more violent means to an end.

I take it you wouldn't buy into civil disobedience. Laws can be challenged, have been challenged, and are still be challenged. I believe that people who blindly obey governments without questioning anything ever are a bit dangerous to the future of society, personally. Challenging society facilitates change and growth. When we become complacent and overtly obedient, we hurt ourselves.

I actually fully support lowering the drinking age to 18. So I guess this qualifies as condoning and you can send me directly to hell. I will not pass GO. I will not collect $200.

I didn't suggest you cheated. I personally didn't either, but I also wouldn't make such a leap to suggest that cheating on a test equates to violence on any scale.

We are always going to disagree with this because I don't believe that someone entering a country illegally is a dramatic red mark on their moral character card. As you said, you don't know these people any better than you know me - so how can you judge their character?

You don't need to be a dangerous killer to be a criminal. Think Bernie Madoff - not a killer, not violent, in fact he was a very likable dude - yet his crimes had a disastrous impact on hundreds/thousands of people.

Other than hyperbole, I don't see where illegal aliens are put into the same category as dangerous killers (unless of course the illegal alien is also a dangerous killer).

Never said it wasn't illegal, but I was attempting to highlight that there are various degrees of criminality.

Whether my comment is logical or not is in the eye of the beholder, but, if you ask me, living life in a practical way leads to living a boring life.

Living life and political reform are not the same thing in regards to practicality, thankfully.

A - I agree that our current immigration system is not functioning well for many people, from many countries. Not just Mexico.

B - I actually never said anything about voting - but thanks for agreeing with me

C - If you go back and look at the context of the argument I was making, you might see that I was extending the irrationality of wanting "amnesty for all" and "open borders" by highlighting the illogical flaws in an already illogical argument...so I guess according to that logic, congrats on picking up on the illogical nature of the argument

A. I'd be surprised if you were on this site and didn't.

B. You mentioned wanting the "Latin American vote", which relates to voting. And I agree that is driving the political reform.

C. I've been following this thread, so I'm aware of your argument and had elected not to comment on the illogical jump you made earlier, but then it continued. I don't think that the initial argument you commented on was illogical. Impractical and idealogical, yes, but not illogical.

Ah yes, a heart wrenching individual story. It's is hard to argue against. However, no one prevented your friend from returning to Mexico to see his parents....simply the fact (I assume) that he is illegal. So that "torn apart from family" bit doesn't tug at my heartstrings....because in reality it was self-imposed. I prefer the story of my friend from Vietnam whose mother is dying of cancer, but as of yet, they have been unable to get a Visa to bring her to the U.S. And since airport entry is her ONLY option, she well die, far away from her only son. What are we doing for their cause? The ones trying to do it legally...but separated by vast, impassible oceans as opposed to land.

And while Mexico is a large country, I'm pretty sure the "good chunk of money" pales to those of someone from some remote central African country...hence the fact that illegal Mexicans vastly outnumber illegal Congolese. And even if I'm wrong about the cost (it may well be hugely expensive for Mexicans) - the point is, other countries don't even have the option to enter illegally.

I certainly agree people like your student shouldn't be treated as murderous criminals. But the facts are, there IS a legal system, and your student chose to disregard it. So do I think he "deserves" citizenship? No. Does this mean I hate him and I'm racist against Mexicans? No. Do I think he should go through the same process as other legal immigrants? Yes. Do I hope people like you friend/student become citizens one day? Sure. But, please don't neglect the millions of people in horrific circumstances, who, unlike your student, don't have the option to cross illegally. Don't they "deserve" the same chance at citizenship that you want for your friend?

Alas, their plight is brushed under the rug because we all know full well, were it not for the new focus on "the Latin American" vote, most Americans wouldn't care three straws about immigration reform. So, heart-wrenching stories aside, "amnesty" only applies to some, and I frankly think that's not okay. Nor do I think certain people "deserve" citizenship more than others.

Your argument about geography is so unwarranted. Geography can't be changed. To argue using it is just...weak. And non-sensical. If everyone suffering can't have something, than no one suffering should have it according to your logic.

There is a legal system for Mexicans who want to come to America, yes, but how effective is it? Oh, it's not. People on lists for decades from Mexico - if they can get on the lists at all.

The only thing I've agreed with you thus far on is the voting issue - and I half-agree.

Well, that brings me to another topic: immigrant communities. In Southern FL, we have tons of immigrant enclaves where people absolutely don't integrate and don't learn a word of English. Several of my ESL students have been here for 5, 15 and in this case, 25 years and they're still in the beginning English. This particular student (and some others) lived most of their years in the US in Miami, where Spanish is pretty much the defacto first language.

But I gotta tell you, when they get into class, they are so eager to learn English. In their intake interviews, many of them will actually request a teacher who doesn't know Spanish so they learn more.

I don't know what we can do to help people integrate better. There's an argument to be made that people who are here legally are more likely to seek out services, such as English classes and hang out with a more diverse group of people. But it seems that people who immigrate legally also tend to separate themselves into their little groups and not integrate. So I don't know what the answer is.

Do you think it could be a generational thing? It wasn't too long ago we had German and Italian neighborhoods that didn't speak English and it took a generation or two to integrate everyone. Here in LA we have a huge legal/illegal hispanic and spanish-speaking culture. From my observations, younger generations are more capable and willing to integrate.

If everybody discounts ideological thinking, we'll never end up with an ideal society

Yes. I think it's important, from a policy and practicality standpoint, to take small steps rather than ones that cause too much chaos too fast, but if we maintain that ideal is impossible, then it will be. Self-fulfilling prophecy and all.

I'm very willing to admit that the majority of Americans disagree with me, and I know that my opinion is nowhere near mainstream.

But, if you knew me, you would know that I have lead a really unique life, been many places, and done many things, and that my opinion isn't just being pulled out of my butt. As someone who had a nearly-impossible dream, and was able to achieve it, I want for all of humanity to have the freedom to live life in the way they see it best for them, and if that is going to America, I don't want to stand in their way -- I want to welcome them with open arms.

I see no difference between Americans and non-Americans, and I respect all of their wishes equally.

I respect your opinion because it comes from a genuine concern for humanity on a whole. I disagree with entirely open borders as that would lead to economical and political problems (not to mention, safety issues), and we would need some way to regulate everything. But the system is set up right now to not let people in. As we all know, getting a visa is difficult in this country - more so than just about any other (and we don't have the best welfare/state systems in the world, actually). I just can't understand how some others can't understand the very human problem of immigration -legal and illegal - and address it focusing on humanity within and beyond our borders. Instead we criminalize it as if these people are all dangerous killers.

Bangladeshi's do not wear turbans.

...they can if they're Sikh or any other religion that utilizes one. Not saying this man was, but just pointing out that they can (and some do) wear turbans.

I think I got a little jaded by the gun arguments. Hopefully it was sarcasm.

I'm going to try and believe it's sarcasm for my sanity's sake.

Cus that's what they should have to do. What a dumb thing to say

Wait...he wasn't being sarcastic? I assumed something so horrible could only be sarcastic - hence my even more sarcastic response.

I'm all for increased immigration and making it easier to immigrate, especially for people that can contribute to the growth of our economy and way of life.

My issue with illegal immigrants is that they were either willing to break the law to get here or break the law to stay here. When someone is willing to break a law I begin to wonder what other laws they are willing to break? Willing to lie about being here legally, what about lying on your taxes or willing to sell your vote on a jury? Willing to encourage their children to cheat in school so that they have a better chance of acceptance into a great school. Their moral character comes into question. With the large numbers of people who desire to come to this country, I think we can be selective in those with the best moral character and best opportunity to make a difference here.

And a good number of US Corporations are no longer 'based' here ...

When I was 15 I broke the law by staying outside after 10:00pm, our town's curfew for anyone under age 16. I also drank underage in college. How badly have I damaged my moral character? Next thing you know I'll be dealing drugs to the local children.

And did you go to school? Cheating was as rampant as the hormones in most I've seen or heard of.

I'm not using that argument at all. All I'm saying is that it's easy for someone from a visa waiver country, or Canada who doesn't even have the visa waiver to say "no big deal." Then to chalk up their lack of family visits due to money problems. Not having the financial means to visit family is a personal problem. Not restricted in anyway by the government.

On the flip side of that, imagine being in a situation where you have the VWP or are in Canada so you have no one telling you "no", but you can't do it because you don't have the money for it. Then you don't have something else to blame the hardship on - it's all on you and your shortcomings. Both cases are hard, that's all I'm saying. Don't discount someone else's experience.

Right, it won't. Not as long as we have a government of the corporations, by the corporations and for the corporations.

Hey. Corporations are people too.

Money constraints are a personal problem. I would've liked for my wife to visit, but a tourist visa is pretty much out of the question for someone with an I-130 pending, or in most cases for that matter.

The "I have it worse than you" argument is getting a bit tiring. This situation isn't ideal for anyone. Personal constraints are just as valid as legal constraints when they restrict visits. It's not a competition to see who the system screwed the hardest.

I wasn't bitter until I see proposals like Amnesty. Now I am. They should fix the legal immigration system first before they even talk about the illegal immigration problem.

Whilst I would like to agree with that, the illegal immigration problem raises more political and economical concerns. And they don't have to be exclusive - revamping legal processes could assist in solving some of the illegal immigration problems and concerns.