NutMagnet

Protect yourself dude. Have you filed a report with your local Police Dept yet? Call 911

It's an excellent idea to file a report with the local police, but do NOT call 911 for this! Calling 911 is for life-threatening emergencies, and in fact you could get into unofficial or formal trouble for "abusing" the 911 line. Go down to the police station and see who is willing to take a report, or at least talk to you about the situation, and get a name, rank, & badge number. The police may not want to take a written report about anything that hasn't "happened" yet (accusations of abuse, etc.), but get it on record that you have at least spoken with someone specifically identifiable. Again, I'd call ICE first, for clarity and direction that could prove valuable and most efficient for you.

That's your opinion. I see it quite differently. OP has a domestic situation on his hands, it is time sensitive, there is a child involved. He has also been threatened by the Uncle. An emergency clearly exists.

Its Over.

Protect yourself dude. Have you filed a report with your local Police Dept yet? Call 911 and have them send someone out to your house, you'll then have 911 call records and an incident report on file with dates and times. Start that paper trail! Also strongly consider filing a restraining order on both girl and Uncle. The Police will help direct you with that and also with advice about your child. You know that she is coming back soon to make trouble. Very important that you let the cops know what's going on NOW before they break your door down with some warrant based on her delisunional claims.

Also contact the ICE hotline and tell them everything. Change ALL your locks, cancel joint accounts on anything you have toghether, bank, cel phones. Change your passwords.

With only a few weeks left on her 90 day visa, have you considered doing a disappearing act until the time elapses? Can you shack up with parents or a friend across town until this blows over? And, don't forget to change your locks, eh?

Good luck to you,

NM

Have you ever heard of a VAWA case being denied, either for alleged abuse or for Cancellation of Removal?

Why does she want to file for divorce, please explain in full detail

Found the following article on the subject...apparently it depends on where you live, and what the circumstances are.

still, it is so close to impossible may as well call it impossible.

no AOS means she has not been in the US very long or she has been and is currently out of status so rarely does anyone here on K-1 have the grounds to divorce before AOS and stay here legally. the purpose of her coming here is no longer valid basically so she simply books a ticket home.

the only way she can apply for AOS on her own is if she's an abused spouse. if she's able to prove this, she's eligible for AOS according to the VAWA provisions. this will take a lot of docs/reports proving the claim so just a claim without supporting evidence will not be enough.

What should you do if you bring a woman here on a K1 VISA and things don't work out. So you buy her a ticket back to her home country, but she just skips out of town and refuses the ticket. You never hear from her again and have no way to contact her.

Does the K1 VISA sponsor have any legal obligations? Does the K1 VISA sponsor have to report her to INS? ICE? What should he do? anything?

John

Johnny,

Sometimes you are the windshield and sometimes you are the bug.

Her immigration problems are not yours. If it fits, send a letter to your local USCIS field office stating the facts, in brief.

Go on with your life. If you take her back in ANY WAY you are a fool.

Has anyone gone through the interview with the petitioner right there with them and been denied? If so, can you state the reasons you were denied and what you did about it?

I will answer for my ex-wife in irrevocable absenteeism, YES. Reasons being her late registration Live Birth and lack of sufficient old ID's.

They kept her passport and she was given Form 221(g) "Wait until you hear from us." We did pay for Delbros courier delivery, so not a denial.

After phone calls to the IV Immigrant Visa Unit and a request for appeal was faxed to the embassy, a second interview was arranged 2 weeks later. Same story, lack of old ID's. She claimed that she lost her old memoirs from from moving around and also due to a house fire in the squatters, I saw the fire damage on the walls personally. Still on administrative review.

She contacted her elementary school principal who sent her transcripts to the Embassy, and I also followed up with a congressional inquiry.

Three months from initial interview, Delbros was walking down her street with her visa. I believe the US Embassy now uses a different delivery service than Delbros.

Just remember that the petition first has to be approved by the USCIS service center, then by the Dept of State, THEN it gets forwarded to the Embassy in Manila who's duty is to interview the candidate in person to review and verify the aforementioned. Any case that they put on administrative review is for good cause.

If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about.

Hi Every one,

is having engagement ring important at the time of interview? I met my fiancee but we didn't get each other engagement ring, is having it important.

Thanks

NO

In many countries, the wearing of jewelery in public invites theft and robbery. If it important to YOU, go out and pick up some cheap fake diamond gold plated ring for show. Your "real" ring will come later on.

NM

Bottomline for ALL pinay. Don't do K3s or CR-1 visas. do K1s. at least you won't have to worry about remarrying in PI.

Can you please explain why a Pinoy does not have to worry about remarrying in the RP with a previous K1?

Quotations for reference purposes welcome,

Thanks,

NM

The marriage of filipinos in the US are not recorded in PI and it's not necessary to get an annulment in PI.

Be a good idea to get divorced in the US tho.

I imagine a filipino could remarry a filipino in PI and not have to worry about what happened in the US as long as they don't return to the US.

Actually I was asking you for citations to support your statements.

Filipino citizens when abroad are still under the Philippine Law. They are required to report vital statistics, including marriages to their nearest Consulate or Embassy. In the RP, the reporting is performed by the solemnizing officer who reports the marriage to the LCR who passes it along to the NSO. When outside the RP, it becomes the responsibility of the Pinoy to report it to their nearest consulate.

Report of Marriage:

http://www.philippineconsulate-sf.org/pdf/08reportofmrrg.pdf

In league with that requirement, the requirement of the Pinoy to amend their Philippine passport to her married name. This is required due to their new name and their new identity because of marriage. In most states, marriage and divorce allows you to change your name to anything you desire without a separate motion and pleading.

http://www.philippineconsulate-sf.org/pdf/...sport_amend.pdf

There is also a form for Delayed Registration of Marriages over one (1) year old which requires notarization, the other documents can be simply filled up by hand and sent to the consulate with return envelope and postage.

The Report Of Marriage will be on file with the NSO in a couple of months and can be obtained abroad via www.e-census.com.ph for about twenty bucks registered delivery to the US. It is the same Report of Marriage form you filed with the consulate, but now scanned on NSO security paper. This serves same as a Marriage Certificate.

This info updates the CENOMAR, CEMAR, or marriage index of the Pinoy, including the location of the foreign marriage and all previous marriages, and "most likely matches."

****"The marriage of filipinos in the US are not recorded in PI and it's not necessary to get an annulment in PI."

The "PI?" Republika ng Philipinas? or "RP"

Not automatically, however Filipinos are required to report their marriage to the nearest consulate under RP law. It will be duly recorded thence and available at the NSO.

So you are saying that marriages contracted in the USA by Filipinos which later terminate in divorce do not require an annulment in the Philippines? It depends on who petitioned for divorce.

Any Filipino married abroad is also married in the RP. REF: Art. 26 of E.O. 209 And if it is the Pinoy who is listed as the Petitioner on the divorce he/she is still unable to re-marry, but the foreign (American spouse) is free as a bird. The foreigner has to be the one to petition for divorce, and then the Pinoy must still file a judicial recognition of foreign divorce with the RTC.

So, for all those who are listening, don't be a hero and pay for your new Internet girl's divorce in the USA, the US Embassy, MNL is too smart for that sh#t and adhere to local Philippine laws regarding marriage and civil status.,

Do you think for one minute that the US Embassy is not going to abide by the local laws of the country of their station?

Philippine citizens can not seek, initiate, or petition for foreign divorce under Philippine law. The work around is for them to wait until they are granted citizenship and passport in a foreign country and disavow their patriotism to the RP, in which situation, they are no longer bound to the laws of their home country.

Some people are going to have the surprise of their life when they pick up their CENOMAR prior to their 2nd K1 interview and discover that their American ex-husband has filed a delayed registration of marriage. They thought that they could skip out on the Philippine annulment process because she failed to report her first marriage, and her CENOMAR was clear. Hhowever, the ex-husband did it for her.

To JimVaPhuong, you are correct, if she/he returns prior to the expiration of her K1 Visa and does not get married, she returns home as free as a bird, and can chalk it up to a traveling experience or whatever.

I now talk to my friend again,findout his husband dont realy care about fileing for divorce,and she got no money for anulment.Shes back in philippines,for 3 years now with expired k3 visa.what should she do? if she wants to go on with her life how can she do that? please anyone give your advice.Thanks in advance.

Mgtdg's original post is here: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...=215286&hl=

Your friend is back in her own country with family and friends. What she does and how she goes on with her life is up to her. Unfortunately, marrying again in the near future, or possibly being an OSW may give her some trouble.

Sooner or later, her husband will get a legal divorce for his own needs, but unfortunately here in the USA we do not have a centralized bureau like the NSO who keeps vital statistics records for the entire country, instead it is done at the local county level, and one would have to contact that county's Dept. of Health for those records. Without knowing where the eventual divorce took place, it may be close to impossible to track it.

Hopefully, she keeps in contact with some of her ex's family and they will let her know when her husband files for divorce, she can then get a registered and authenticated copy and then file for a Recognition of Foreign Divorce, a summary proceeding at the Regional Trial Court there in the RP.

She will not be able to initiate or Petition for a divorce herself because of Philippine law. Maybe she can find a kind attorney who can help her secure a legitimate annulment there.

Good luck to her.

NM

P.S. Annulments for "presumed dead" and "abandonment" may work for remaiirage in the RP, but its a guaranteed trip to Room 1206 at the US Embassy, MNL should her next petitioner be American.

Bottomline for ALL pinay. Don't do K3s or CR-1 visas. do K1s. at least you won't have to worry about remarrying in PI.

Can you please explain why a Pinoy does not have to worry about remarrying in the RP with a previous K1?

Quotations for reference purposes welcome,

Thanks,

NM

That may be true before "adjustment of status" but I do not believe it is so once the AOS has been approved and the 2 year conditional greencard has been issued.

It is based on fact, not opinion, been successfully done and is stated as such in the CFR. During the (2) two year conditional residence period and prior to the issuance of the (10) ten year green card you may withdraw and disavow your obligation to act as sponsor. This effectively kills the I-485 due to lack of sponsorship. She may be able to overcome your withdrawn support by other means, but with the K1, she can only adjust her status through her petitioner or via waiver filed on her own accord.

You are planning an exit strategy, the results of which will have a significant impact on your life. Please do the search for "withdraw and disavow I-864" and variants on Google and even here on VJ. Collect the data and consult with a qualified immigration attorney and protect yourself. Be prepared for all well intended agreements to go sour, divorce is war.

Best Wishes,

NM

With the K1 visa, if you divorce during her period of conditional residency, you may withdraw and disavow your obligation to act as sponsor under the I-864 Affidavit of Support. READ: Off the Hook for means tested benefits, any spousal maintenance or property division due to the marital termination will be handled through your local Family Court.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/janqtr/8cfr213a.2.htm (and elsewhere, search "withdraw and disavow i-864")

"In an adjustment of status case, once the sponsor, substitute

sponsor, joint sponsor, household member, or intending immigrant has

presented a signed Form I-864 or Form I-864A to an immigration officer

or immigration judge, the sponsor, substitute sponsor, joint sponsor, or

household member may disavow his or her agreement to act as sponsor,

substitute sponsor, joint sponsor, or household member only if he or she

does so in writing and submits the document to the immigration officer

or immigration judge before the decision on the adjustment application."

Good luck,

NM

They are next to Western Widget Warehouse.

Precisely!

thanks matt and bing..very nice experience there..u know my fiance and I are having confusing thoughts about this if this will help us get the approval after long torment months just to get the approval of the embassy...if this will help us get the famous pink slip, why slip the chance??

i hope there will be more posts as im weighing things really...glad u replied and thanks so much for ur time and effort to write ur experiences...

god bless

Having the USC at the interview is good evidence of ongoing relationship, whether or not he will be able to sit in at the interview is up to the CO. In any case, USC's presence will be noted and they will know he's waiting.

One case where the USC was allowed in the interview, the CO told the USC, "I will ask your fiancee questions and she will respond. Then I will ask you questions and you will respond. Do you both understand?"

Be aware of possible delays in processing and delivery of your visa. Buying an advance one-way air ticket back to the States so that you can both fly back together is a nerve-racking risk and not recommended as per the documents in your forthcoming embassy "packets" and the personal experiences of many here.

One good thing if your USC fiancee can make the trip is that he use his airline luggage allowance (typ. 2 X 35kg) to help bring the bulk of your belongings back to the States with him, or in the best of situations, fly back together so he can help you with your bags/boxes and navigation through airports and the longest airplane ride of your life.

Good luck!

NM

Pay more than you owe.

I'm thinkin' you're nuts to pay more than you owe!

Pepe,

If i would compare my husband's salary and our credit limit, we are not nuts on our present practice. I won't reveal our finances here.

I would be the one saying to you... you are nuts for not paying more than you owe.

Why do you have to pay off ABC Bank $10,000 when your loan balance is only $9,000? You are indeed crazy or your head is full of hot air! You have a problem expressing what you mean to say. I guess you meant to convey "pay more than the minimum required"!

Where is ABC Bank?

Like it or not, there is no reciprocity between the USA and Philippines that mandates the USC to pay child support to his illegitimate child in the Philippines.

:-)

I wish people will stop making presumptions on what transpired betwee the OP and the ex husband. Most of us are very lucky that we didn't encounter their problem. Who are we to judge them? So what if she found another USC to sponsor her in coming back here, its none of our business.Just thank your lucky stars that you have a smooth sailing visa process and pray for our fellow Filipina who deserves a second chance.

Yea well, I know its hard to hear what I am saying, but there is something very wrong here. Its easy to see if you look at the writing on the wall. One thing we should all be fighting against is fraud. Ihave found that eople are using this sight to enable the thinking of many filipinas to actually do fruad.

The timelines dont fit. She went back to the PHilippines and file for a spousal visa and had all the time to find a new fiance? All in the span of 14 months? Huh? Remember she had to commit or agree to the spousal visa> di ba? It takes time for that visa to be approved Huh?!!!!!!! What?!!!!! Something is wrong here?

And remember she has agreed on every occasion to sign the AOS first in the USA and then the spousal visa in the PH?! And now she want sign a K1 with another guy????!!!! It looks to me this person id doing everything in her power to get back to USA. And she will do whatever it takes to do so.

And we will see a 2ndvictim again with this thing.

Another post with a person who found out they married the wrong person.

The K1 process is not McDonalds. Its for sincere people who love each other, and want o be with each other for life.

Nahhhhhhhhh!!! I smell malansa....

Ok. The i-130 is in the topic now., and everyone here knows my story anywyz, i might as well, include my timeline. for everyone.. especially to merryann's....

<snip>

Aug. 19 2009-- Today., I sent a cancellation letter to the NVC of my i-130 petition becoz again,My ex wont do it..

any questions and confusions about my timeline, feel free to ask..

OK, I will ask.

You diagnosed Mr. Spiteful as being Bi-Polar/Manic Depressive by watching a TV show?

You obtained a Legal Separation from Mr. Spiteful in the State of Minnesota? You hired an attorney and both of you signed the agreement and it was recognized by the court? In what state was it really filed in, and given your profile of Mr. Spiteful, it would seem that he would have been uncooperative in doing that. It also conflicts with your timeline and short presence in the USA.

You are attempting to cancel USCIS Form I-130 Petition for Alien Relative? I thought you were the alien spouse and Filipino citizen beneficiary? You are getting bad advice, his petition is not for you to cancel. At best you are creating a paper trail of documents to contribute to the validity of your marriage.

Your story is loosing credibility. We are trying to help and provide support to you here. Half-truths are still lies, if you expect honest answers, you need to provide honest details so the forum can help you with your questions.

Your chronicle of alleged domestic abuse is truly saddening. The police in the USA are over zealous in their recognition and suspicions of abuse, moreover police officers are personally liable for NOT taking action when called out on a domestic where elements of abuse are present.

Yet, after their visits to your home, you make no mention of his arrest, or better yet, of Mr. Spiteful being arrested, hog-tied, gang raped or otherwise driven out of town and fed to the coyotes.

While still married, Mr Spiteful came to visit you in the Philippines for five months to work on your marriage and relationship. According to your timeline Mr. Ray, who you had been acquainted with with since May 2008 was also visiting you there during that same time!

One or both of these men were not given the truth. Could it be that you are driven by drama and wanted them to meet each other for your own amusement? Ooooooh, the excitement of two grown men fighting over you.

In every relationship breakup there is an angel and a devil. When the other party is queried, somehow the protagonist and antagonist positions are reversed. The truth is somewhere in between.

Thanks for sharing your stories

Your friend,

NM

HOW ABOUT A PERSON WHOS IS MARRIED HERE INT HE PHIL. WENT TO THE U.S DIDNT FILE A DIVORCE DECREE TO A FIL. SPOUSE HERE IN THE PHIL BUT STILL MARRIED A USC...? WHAT ABOUT THAT CASE...? ...

So a married Filipino goes to the USA and gets married again to a USA citizen? And is still married in the RP? Both of them?

That's called bigamy. 6-12 years in the RP monkey house and also a felony in most parts of the USA.

yes that the situation... married here went to us and married a usc there hehehehehehe... but i thought bigamy is teritorrial....? can someone give me learning about this matter here....

This is a reply to happyme.

By "territorial" do you mean that the person your are referring to can only be tried and convicted of bigamy within the Philippnies?

Departing the Philippines does not change the marital status of the person. Without dissolution or annulment, that person is still married under Philippine law even when traveling abroad. A parallel marriage contracted in the USA under these circumstances is considered automatically void, without the necessity of a formal divorce decree and proceedings.

Bigamy is a crime in the USA and the person is subject to the laws of the state where the void marriage was contracted regardless of their nationality (with the possible exception of specific religious considerations).

The other Filipino spouse who was left in the Philippines can petition for the extradition of their bigamous spouse back to the Philippines to face charges. This would be via an order by the Philippine Supreme Court and sent through diplomatic channels to the US Department of State who would arrest him/her and put him on a airplane and send him/her back to face court in the Philippines.

A petition for abandonment can only result in a legal separation and will not grant capacity to remarry. A filing for annulment due to presumptive death is possible after (4) years if there is good reason to believe that the spouse is dead. NOT RECOMMENDED FOR IMMIGRATION PURPOSES! I personally know of three presumptive death annulment cases who were denied visas by the US Embassy Manila's Fraud Prevention Unit.

Presumptive death annulments would appear to work OK for the purpose of re-marrying of another local Philippine national. Ask your Philippine attorney.

HOW ABOUT A PERSON WHOS IS MARRIED HERE INT HE PHIL. WENT TO THE U.S DIDNT FILE A DIVORCE DECREE TO A FIL. SPOUSE HERE IN THE PHIL BUT STILL MARRIED A USC...? WHAT ABOUT THAT CASE...? ...

So a married Filipino goes to the USA and gets married again to a USA citizen? And is still married in the RP? Both of them?

That's called bigamy. 6-12 years in the RP monkey house and also a felony in most parts of the USA.

NutMagnet, that provision applies only if the marriage occurred in the Philippines. The thing is, nydvo's marriage was solemnized in the US, under US laws. Their marriage certificate was issued by US authorities. Can you tell us how in the world can they file for annulment in the Philippines for a marriage that occurred in the US. What would be the basis, a US marriage contract? No Philippine court has jurisdiction over a marriage that occured in the US. No Philippine court can order that a US marriage be declared null and void.

If you can show us the law that specifically says that marriage between a Filipino citizen and a foreign national that was celebrated abroad can be subject to annulment in the Philippines, that would be good.

Ray and nydvo, three lawyers already gave you advice, you're in good hands.

NutMagnet, that provision applies only if the marriage occurred in the Philippines. The thing is, nydvo's marriage was solemnized in the US, under US laws. Their marriage certificate was issued by US authorities. Can you tell us how in the world can they file for annulment in the Philippines for a marriage that occurred in the US. What would be the basis, a US marriage contract? No Philippine court has jurisdiction over a marriage that occured in the US. No Philippine court can order that a US marriage be declared null and void.

If you can show us the law that specifically says that marriage between a Filipino citizen and a foreign national that was celebrated abroad can be subject to annulment in the Philippines, that would be good.

Ray and nydvo, three lawyers already gave you advice, you're in good hands.

I believe that you are Filipino and through no fault of your own have a difficult time understanding all about divorce, the same as us Yanks not understanding why not in the Philippines? Its a cultural difference and takes time to understand. I hope I can help sort it out for you.

Q:Can you tell us how in the world can they file for annulment in the Philippines for a marriage that occurred in the US. What would be the basis, a US marriage contract? No Philippine court has jurisdiction over a marriage that occured in the US. No Philippine court can order that a US marriage be declared null and void.

It would not be subject to annulment, it would simply be dissolved if initiated by the foreigner spouse overseas. No need for further annulment. But to make it legal after that, a summary process recognizing the foreign divorce needs to be filed in Philippine court to amend the Filipino's marriage documents and cenomar, this can also be done through foreign embassies.

If you are referring to the situation with Nydvo is it simple but the process is long and complicated. First off, you would think, How could anybody know in the Philippines that she was married and divorced in the USA, she says there is no NSO marriage index on her? The files, documents, fingerprints, audio/video of her previous interview on her ex-husband's petition will be waiting for her at the US Embassy.

Just because the mariage is not registered with the NSO, does not mean that a marriage does not exist. In her situation, a foreign report of marriage was never filed in the Philippines and she has a clear cenomar. Here is a quote for you on this:

http://attyatwork.com/annulment-divorce-le...stions-answers/

What if no marriage certificate could be found?

Justice Sempio-Dy, in the “Handbook of on the Family Code of the Philippines” (p. 26, 1997 reprint), says: “The marriage certificate is not an essential or formal requisite of marriage without which the marriage will be void. An oral marriage is, therefore, valid, and failure of a party to sign the marriage certificate or the omission of the solemnizing officer to send a copy of the marriage certificate to the proper local civil registrar, does not invalidate the marriage. Also the mere fact that no record of marriage can be found, does not invalidate the marriage provided all the requisites for its validity are present."

THE BASIS: In Nydvo's short marriage, they did apply for Adjustment of Status after they were married, and so they sent in their marriage certificate, and both birth certificates to the US Immigration for processing. The Immigration processed those papers and issued her an A# similar to an SSS number. This is the nukber she will use on her upcoming petition as well.

NYdvo left the country before the AOS process was complete, still legally married to Mr. Spiteful.

If the foreign divorce was initiated, filed, or petitioned by the foreigner spouse, then it will be recognized in the Philippines, no further annulment necessary, but you would need to file for a recognition of a foreign divorce with the Philippines court.

NYDVO's problem is that her new boyfriend gave her the money to initiate, file, or petition for her divorce. That doesn't work because it has to be the FOREIGNER spouse to initiate, file, or petition for divorce in order for it to be recognized in the Philippines. All it does is able the foreign spouse to re-marry while the Filipino spouse is still married under RP law. So make sure your foreign husband files the papers...not you, diba?

And that goes back to the theory that Filipino citizens abroad are bound by the laws of their home country when abroad. The Family Code of the RP was amended for consideration of those Filipinos who's' spouses divorced them.

(No Philippine court has jurisdiction over a marriage that occured in the US.

How about 'recognized' instead of 'jurisdiction'? There is not much in the way or reciprocacy between the USA and the RP, many laws still in place from the military base days.

The late Cory Aquino on

17 July 1987: Executive Order No. 227 was signed into law, amending Article 36 of the Family Code, among others. Article 26 now reads:

ART. 26. All marriages solemnized outside the Philippines in accordance with the laws in force in the country where they were solemnized, and valid there as such, shall also be valid in this country, except those prohibited under Articles 35(1), (4), (5) and (6), 36, 37 and 38.

Where a marriage between a Filipino citizen and a foreigner is validly celebrated and a divorce is thereafter validly obtained abroad by the alien spouse capacitating him or her to remarry, the Filipino spouse shall have capacity to remarry under Philippine law.

and here: http://jlp-law.com/blog/judicial-recogniti...divorce-decree/

No Philippine court can order that a US marriage be declared null and void. )

No court ordering necessary when the foreigner divorces the Filipino outside the Philippines. If the Filipino divorces the foreigner, there is no recognition of dissolution in the Philippines, ever, only via annulment.

At times, lawyers are a necessary evil, finding one who really knows his field of practice is like a haystack needle. As busuinessmen, they are out to make money on their client's misfortunes. Leeches!

Tale of Immigration Lawyers

Immigration Lawyers do it with taste.

Immigration Lawyers do it with high self-esteem.

Immigration Lawyers do it to get to the trial.

Immigration Lawyers do it for justice's sake.

Immigration Lawyers do it for however long there is money behind the deal.

Immigration Lawyers do it for as long as it's legal.

Immigration Lawyers' Club

A group of crooks decided to break in to a lawyers' club. The old Immigration Lawyers fought for their life and their money. The crooks were happy to leave the place intact and escape the fight.

"We're not that bad off," one of the thieves commented. "We have $35 between the lot of us."

The eldest thief screamed in desperation, "We had $1,000 when we went in the club!"

Mr. NutMagnet,

I am not sounding like an angry man who swallowed a bitter pill. I would love to reply to your points one by one again, but it is tiring. I would like you to answer this for me... How can a marriage be annuled if it never existed? Now before you copy and paste again all the Philippine laws and codes again, this is the very question that a lawyer in the Philippines asked my fiance when she went just this morning again to inquire about this issue. Again, a lawyer in the US and a lawyer again in the Philippines explained all this to her and I but you seem to be annoyed or mad by this. It is not required to report a marriage taking place in the US to the Philippines. There is no legal requirement to do so. It is recognized only if the marriage is reported. Read the Philippine laws again. I think I remember that it needs to be reported within a certain amount of time. So again, keep refering to "Mr. Spiteful" and what he should or shouldn't have done. The fact again is, and this was confirmed by 3 lawyers, the marriage wasn't reported and there is no marriage to annul. She has a CENOMAR stating she is single and that there is no marriages on record. She just recently received another one stating this. There is just more point I want to bring up to you....We also contacted an official in the LCR, Local Civil Registry, office and asked about this situation. Her response was the same. If we hire a lawyer to do this "annulment" as you and a few others seem so sure we have to do....it cannot be done because there is no record of a marriage to annul. There has to be a record of marriage in order for an annulment to happen.

Now, if 3 lawyers confirm this and the registry office themselves confirm this, I would think we are ok, and you should be too, NutMagnet.

Mr Ray,

There are things that only experience and hard knocks can teach. Its not my job to school you, or anyone on this board or elsewhere. But I will share with you some thoughts and you may have your pleasure in rationalizing their applicability.

My friend, you are in pursuit of a life changing experience, a marriage, and also to a foreign woman who's people and culture are vastly different than is known here in the USA. A challenging, long distance relationship replete with enough emotions to fill a truck. Many things you are hearing from abroad are not making sense as you relate them to your own personal experiences, but you have the faith, trust, and determination to accomplish your goals; a very noble stance.

I'll keep the chop & paste to a minimum and address your questions and throw in a little commentary to boot.

Q: "How can a marriage be annulled if it never existed?"

A: Apparently because those responsible failed to report it in the Philippines. You stated that you paid for her divorce in the USA, if it never existed, what was the point? As previously quoted, "Also the mere fact that no record of marriage can be found, does not invalidate the marriage provided all the requisites for its validity are present." And that would be the existence of the Pinay's USA marriage and divorce document. The USCIS will get a local copy if necessary.

"It is not required to report a marriage taking place in the US to the Philippines. There is no legal requirement to do so. It is recognized only if the marriage is reported. Read the Philippine laws again. I think I remember that it needs to be reported within a certain amount of time."

Not by US law, but by Philippine Law. The Pinay Citizen (in this case) is the one responsible for following the laws of her own country even when abroad, same as you are bound to USA laws when out of the USA. Having reviewed the "Family Code of the Philippines" "The Handbook of the Family Code of the Philippines" and "Primer of Civil Registration" registration of marriage is to be accomplished with the LCR within 15 days. Foreign reports of marriage within one year. There are form filled affidavits available and accepted for all late civil registrations.

My friend, you are getting misinformation from Filipino attorneys and government office clerks. Its Filipino way to tell you what you want to hear to avoid a confrontation or out of embarrassment of their own ignorance. Try calling the Philippine Consulates and Embassies here in the USA for a better chance of the truth, and if in doubt, read their websites they explain all.

You situation is unique as the majority of Filipinos lack the financial capacity to legally initiate and petition for divorce and apart from that they are unable to do so by Philippine law. How most accomplish it is by acquiring citizenship in another country and renouncing their Philippine citizenship by never renewing their passports. Later they can file a 13A and regain their Philippine citizenship, however the statutes are not clear whether a divorce occurring during that time would be recognized under Philippine law.

For your reading: http://jlp-law.com/blog/divorce-annulment-philippines/ and http://jlp-law.com/blog/judicial-recogniti...divorce-decree/

The laws on foreign divorce are very clear, in time you will learn to accept the way that they are.

Good night,

NM

x x x I know all the family law articles as I did research myself to find out about this matter and it even states there that the marriage outside the Philippines still needs to be reported to the Philippine government for it to be valid. Yes, a marriage outside the Philippines is valid and recognized in the Philippines... as long as it is reported.

Marriages outside the Philippines are recognized and valid even if not reported to the Philippine embassy. Art. 26 of Family Code does not require its citizens to report the marriage in order for it to be valid. The report is only for purposes of registration and recording and as requisite for passport renewal or to avail of the Philippine embassy's services.

"ART. 26. All marriages solemnized outside the Philippines in accordance with the laws in force in the country where they were solemnized, and valid there as such, shall also be valid in this country, except those prohibited under Articles 35(1), (4), (5) and (6), 36, 37 and 38."

In response to the few people who are saying the marriage still needs to be annuled: What technically is being annuled? There is no marriage recorded to be annuled. Both immigration lawyers confirmed this to me.

My thoughts, exactly. I'm not a lawyer but I'm thinking that even if NSO has a record of the US marriage certificate, the Philippines has no jurisdiction over a marriage that was solemnized outside its territory. A Philippine court cannot order a US court to annul a marriage that was celebrated in the US.

Assuming also that the marriage was reported and NSO has a copy, the US embassy will see a US marriage certificate that has been terminated by a decree issued by a US court. There is no way the US embassy will not recognize a divorce decree that was issued by its own judicial system.

It would be a different matter altogether if Nydvo's marriage occurred in the Philippines. Her divorce will not be recognized since she, a Filipino citizen, initiated it.

The way I see it, nydvo is free to marry and her US divorce will be recognized by the US embassy.

But then again, I'm not a lawyer.

You left out the relative part of Family Code Art. 26, which was amended in E.O. 227 Section 1.

"Art. 26. All marriage solemnized outside the Philippines in accordance with the laws in force in the country where they were solemnized, and valid there as such, shall also be valid in this country, except those prohibited under Articles 35(1), (4), (5) and (6), 36, 37 and 38.

Where a marriage between a Filipino citizen and a foreigner is validly celebrated and a divorce is thereafter validly obtained abroad by the alien spouse capacitating him or her to remarry, the Filipino spouses shall have capacity to remarry under Philippine law."

Hello all,

My name is Ray. I am the fiance of nydvo. I have been reading all the responses here to our situation. Let me just say that obviously anyone can reply, but I would appreciate the comments to be civil. Yes this applies to NutMagnet. What gives you the right to attack and judge someone on this forum? If you dont like someones post here or the situation it is refering to..that is fine. Just keep the attacks to yourself.

I am not going to repeat the facts of our situation here. It was posted a few times. The main fact here that everyone seems to be missing is that the US marriage was never reported to the Philippine government. I have talked with an immigration lawyer here in the US and in the Philippines and they both said the same thing. No reported marriage means no marriage. I know all the family law articles as I did research myself to find out about this matter and it even states there that the marriage outside the Philippines still needs to be reported to the Philippine government for it to be valid. Yes, a marriage outside the Philippines is valid and recognized in the Philippines... as long as it is reported.

In response to the few people who are saying the marriage still needs to be annuled: What technically is being annuled? There is no marriage recorded to be annuled. Both immigration lawyers confirmed this to me. This is not my fiance being sneaky or commiting any fraud as some of you have suggested. Is it lucky? Of course. But as NutMagnet thinks, the so called "poor american ex-husband victim" should have known better also and reported the marriage right after. If anyone is to blame here for anything it is him. If you all only knew more of the story involved here with the ex-husband, maybe some of the negative comments and attacks would go away.

Dont be so quick to judge when you dont know all the facts.

My fiance didn't overstay her first K-1 visa. Yes, the AOS was filed but they never went to the interview as she was already out of the US. There was an attempt to make the marriage work with her then husband and the spousal visa was filed, but after a few months it was clear it wasn't going to work out. The spousal visa was approved but at that point they were already talking about divorce. The husband said he was going to file for divorce numerous times and he never did. Two sets of divorce papers were sent to my fiance for her signature but he never filed. He flat out admitted to me that he wont file papers. At that point, I hired a lawyer here in the US to do the divorce. Why should my fiance be strung along by her now ex-husband, who admitted he just wanted to cause trouble for her? If anyone here committed fraud and was deceitful it was the ex-husband. My fiance should not be attacked for wanting to be free of him and for doing what she needs to do to accomplish this. So if being aggressive in wanting to be divorced from an abusive, controlling husband makes her guilty.. well then NutMagnet, She and I are both guilty....and when two immigration lawyers from both countries confirm to us that we are free and clear to pursue our goals, that is all the justification we need.

I dont know what else to say..... :-)

Mr. Ray,

You are coming off like an angry man who just realized that you paid an lawyer to set your fiancee's 'Spiteful" ex husband free with no benefit to yourself and MA Nydvo. Your argument and out-lashing would be better heard by the lawyers who unfortunately ripped and misled both you and Nydvo.

Nydvo came to this forum asking for help already knowing the answer and looking for a a crafty workaround. You can personally attack me all you want, but please be mindful that I was not the only one who gave your fiancee' the proper answer to her question, the reality of which, seems to be a bitter pill for you to swallow.

What she needed, and still does need is an annulment in the Philippines to give her the legal capacity to marry. Whether the marriage has been reported to the National Statistics Office or not does not in itself certify the legal civil status of your fiancee.' Nor should you be banking on the notion that since Mr. Spiteful did not report the marriage that it is not recognized in the RP. I believe your fiancee' is a Filipino citizen and that it is her responsibility to follow the laws of her country and civil registration procedures. She is equally, if not more so, responsible for registering her marriage with the NSO, this was covered in her CFO seminar.

Justice Sempio-Dy, in the “Handbook of on the Family Code of the Philippines” (p. 26, 1997 reprint), says: “The marriage certificate is not an essential or formal requisite of marriage without which the marriage will be void. An oral marriage is, therefore, valid, and failure of a party to sign the marriage certificate or the omission of the solemnizing officer to send a copy of the marriage certificate to the proper local civil registrar, does not invalidate the marriage. Also the mere fact that no record of marriage can be found, does not invalidate the marriage provided all the requisites for its validity are present."

Her USA marriage documents are sufficient to substantiate said requisites.

You say that an application for Adjustment of Status was filed in her previous marriage to Mr. Spiteful. That would have included a copy of the marriage certificate and her birth certificate a suggested here, http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;page=k1k3aos The USCIS has issued her an Alien Registration number which along with previous marriages are to be listed on her Form I-129F Application for Alien Fiancee'. All details concerning her previous marriage to Spiteful will be referenced during processing of her petition.

The USCIS & US Embassy will be the party to adjudicate any visa applications filed by you on behalf of your fiancee', NOT the Philippine NSO. Rest assured that the CO's at the Embassy are familiar with Philippine civil law and will recognize that, even that she was divorced in the USA, that she remains married under Philippine law. Do you think that they are going to give a Finacee' Visa to a married woman?

I am not attacking you or Nydvo. She asked the question, we replied with our personal experience, facts, laws and quotations from such credible sources as the Family Law of the Philippines, the US Embassy in San Francisco California and case law by a Supreme Court Justice in the RP.

While the claims of abuse by Nydvo in her previous marriage are truly unfortunate, think of the forthcoming problems that she is likely to occur by most probably being denied a visa, or later deported due to not following the rules. The USCIS will catch it sooner or later. I like to sleep at night and would not want that hanging over my own head.

I would encourage you to do the proper thing and help your fiancee' obtain an annulment giving her the legal capacity to marry prior to petitioning her for a family based visa.

Respectfully,

NM

we hired a lawyer to do the AOS., and i really didnt know what happened to that application.. when i was still there., all i can remember was meeting the lawyer and signed some papers.. after that., never heard anything... my exhusband didnt even say anything about it..

I am really expecting for tougher questions....fingers crossed here.. and lots of prayers..

Thank u sooo much for the infos and the support..

Don't depend the US Embassy Manila to assist you in circumventing Philippine law. You seem to be looking for a fast and clever way out of getting a proper annulment.

For a K1 visa you must have the legal capacity to marry. You say that you filed for, and were granted a foreign divorce which you know is not recognized under Philippine law, and you think you can sneak by because, so far, your CENOMAR is clean.

You stated that your ex-husband is "Spiteful" and that also you filed for AOS. What will your ex husband say when Immigration knocks his door and asks him where you are? Also why you have not completed your AOS because they will think you went TNT.

If you are serious about your new boyfriend and are indeed serious about having a family, and not just coming to the USA for Immigration benefits. Then you need to be honest with him and tell him that you are not ready and that you need to get a honest and full annulment before wasting time and money on your plan of fraud.

Is there any wonder why Manila is one of the top 3 high fraud Embassies?

In defense of the OP...she is in the Philippines right now so I am sure the Immigration wont be looking for her since she definitely has a departure record when she left the USA. Why waste money and time to proceed with the AOS when the marriage was not working? If she did , now that would be fraud since the lifting of condition would be based on marriage and there is no more marriage to speak of.

The OP was honest enough to leave the USA and not become a TNT as you implied which is very honorable of her since there are thousands of Filipino TNT's in the USA. She could have opted to stay here illegaly but she didn't.

If the first marriage didnt work, should she be punished for it? At least she was truthful and didnt stay married just to stay here in the USA. Now, thats not fraud at all.

Everybody deserve a second chance, even the OP.

Since she states that AOS was applied for in 2007, the money and time was already spent. Poor USA ex-husband victim.

Everybody deserves a 2nd chance. The OP made a huge mistake by filing for divorce in the USA. Because of that, her divorce will never be recognized under Philippine law. All she did was give freedom to her ex-husband at no benefit to her whatsoever.

Which brings up some questions.

How does a Filipina who is living in the RP obtain or afford the cost of a divorce in the USA? Under Philippine law she is unable to do so as divorce is illegal? I guess that nullifies the USA divorce and she remains married to her ex-husband as she is bound to the laws of her own country when acting abroad.

I smell rotten palingke fish, diba?

I am too lazy to try and read everything Are you now living in the U.S. and if so, what is your immigration status? If you have a 10-year card you shouldn't have any problems but if you are still in conditional status you will have that issue to overcome.

Let me help ya out...

i went to the US 2007 thru K1 visa..

but i left the US after 6 months.. werent able to do the AOS..

And apparently is considering another K-1...

If the USC files for the divorce you will have no problems re-marrying under Filipino law. If you make false statements on any of the USCIS forms and they find out you can be banned for life. I would recommend you do things correctly so If the USC isn't going to divorce you, you will need to do this on your own which would require an annulment in the Philippines, whether the government knows or not. My two cents worth

He did not. she did, therefore ineligible without annulment. They always think that they are smarter than the average bear. In this situation, she is screwed. Help convince her to do things the proper way. It is because of shenanigans like this that defame her country and make it more difficult for the honest couple to unite.