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National Visa Center and USCIS

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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Philippines
Timeline

Yeah, I know, thats why I say "may have been" :-)

Neil

I even had an RFE otherwise it may have approved 10 days earlier!

You have no way of knowing that.

K 1

I-129F Sent----------------March 27, 07

I-129F NOA1---------------April 7, 07

I-129F RFE(s)--------------August 7, 07

RFE Reply(s)---------------August 23, 07

I-129F NOA2---------------August 28, 07

NVC Received--------------October 1, 07

NVC Left--------------------October 5, 07

Consulate Received-------October 9, 07

Packet 4 Received---------October 24, 07

Early Medical---------------Nov 14 and 15, 07

CFO seminar---------------afternoon of Nov 14, 07

Interview Date-------------November 27, 07 APPROVED!

Visa pick up ---------------December 4, 07

POE-------------------------Minneapolis, December 8, 07

Married -------------------- December 28, 2007

AOS

Sent AOS package----------------------Feb 15, 08

Package Received------------------------Feb 19, 08

Check Cashed----------------------------Feb 28, 08

NOA1 AOS/EAD---------------------------Feb 25, 08

Biometrics---------------------------------Mar 11, 08

Case transferred to CSC-----------------Mar 13, 08

AOS Touches------------------------------Mar 11, 13, 16, 22, 24, 25, 08

EAD Card Production Ordered-----------April 28, 08

EAD card production ordered AGAIN----May 1, 08

EAD email approval-------------------May 5, 08

EAD card in mail---------------------------May 5, 08

Start of My first job in USA---------------May 12, 2008

AOS touch----------------------------May 7,8,9,12,13,15,19, 08

Card production ordered------------June 10, 2008

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I just finished a conference conversation with the National Visa Center, Congressman Pomeroy from the State of North Dakota, and myself concerning the I-797 Notice of Action form mailed to Visa petitioners. According to the National Visa Center, this notice of action stating the same thing you will see on the USCIS website or that is emailed to you is not important and will not stop the process of the K1-Fiance` Visa. For those of you who are worried or upset that you have not received this NOA2, you need not worry. This NOA2 is not needed to move forward in the process of obtaining a Visa for your fiance`.

As to notifications, as long as when you check the status of your individual application using the receipt number that USCIS has given you from the 1st NOA, you have nothing to worry about. So the idea that NOA2 is a cruical and critical step is false. Do not be discouraged if you never receive this NOA2, your application is still moving forward! The only time you will need to worry is if they inform you via email or the USCIS website that your petition is disapproved.

If you need further guidance, feel free to contact me!

Thanks,

Neil

You need to worry if you loose your NOA2, it is required for AOS and costs a bundle to get replaced

usa_fl_sm_nwm.gifphilippines_fl_md_clr.gif

United States & Republic of the Philippines

"Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid." John Wayne

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Filed: AOS (apr) Country: Iran
Timeline

I Totaly agree with you dude!

#######!

It states that you will need verification of approval. When you go to the USCIS website, you can print the status by using a button called a Printer Friendly Status... this as I have been informed by the National Visa Center is acceptable and will be acceptable replacement for a NOA2 that has never been received!

As for those who do not have an updated status, call the USCIS directly or wait for them to update their website. It is your choice, I prefer to make calls and get action rather than sit on my duff!

Neil

My point was that some (many?) people get no status update online. This means that if they never get a NOA2, they cannot know that they have been approved. Admittedly, most people without an update appear to have received a hard copy I-797, but certainly no e-mail (kinda unlikely without the online status update).

This puts us in a position of having to call USCIS every %^&* day to see what's up. Great. And even then some folks there just look at their screens and say sorry, no update; be patient etc.

In the meantime, the petition may already be approved, on its way to NVC or on its way to the embassy. All without us having heard a peep. Not cool.

I mean, how many errors can there be: no NOA1s mailed out, no NOA2s, no online updates, arbitrary touches etc etc.

:blink:

06/12/07----sending The package to NSC

06/15/07---- Received at NSC

06/25/07---- TOUCHED

07/02/07---- TOUCHED and it conformed they received my Mail on 06/25/07 at CSC!

07/20/07---- TOUCHED and a lady said it still Pending..

08/06/07---- TOUCHED

08/29/07 OMG I am just keep TOUCHING... :lol:

09/26/07 TOUCHED CSC ... Nothing yet :(

09/28/07 sending a fax to congressman at 00:06 A.M.

10/31/07 JUST Called CSC TODAY, my Case Is under Officer reviewing... RIGHT ONNNNNN

11/05/07 RFE!!!! AFTER ABOUT 4 MONTH RFE? WHAT FOR? WHY SO LATE? #######

11/26/07 Approved WooHooo

11/30/07 NO2 hardcopy has been received yo yo

12/10/07 Transferred to NVC as of today 12/17/07. NVC telephone line is a hack of busy!

12/14/07 NV received the case

12/18/07 called and conformed the nvc case number and case have been send to ankara u.s. embassy

01/17/08 Received Appointment Letter Damn slow while they send it thro USPS

02/10/09 Approval Letter. ouiiiiii

02/20/09 Recived The Permanent Resident card

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Hello my friend,

How are you? i just wanna share it with you about my timeline....and i have a good news i've got a letter from national NVC informing us our MANILA CASE NUMBER MNL2007XXXXX.

Timeline:

April 28,2007---------------------my fiancee filed the I-129F and sent.

April 30,2007----------------------Delivered to USCIS.

May 04,2007---------------------- USCIS recieved our petition and have the case number WAC07XXXXXXXX.

August 29,2007-------------------We recieved mail from portfolio that our petition is approved.

September 09,2007--------------My fiancee recieved hard copy of NOA2 that our petition is approved.

September 24,2007---------------NVC recieved our case fiLE

September 27,2007- -------------we recieved our manila case number MNL2007XXXXXX from NVC.

Hope this info can help you....thank you my friend God bless you

Johna

I just finished a conference conversation with the National Visa Center, Congressman Pomeroy from the State of North Dakota, and myself concerning the I-797 Notice of Action form mailed to Visa petitioners. According to the National Visa Center, this notice of action stating the same thing you will see on the USCIS website or that is emailed to you is not important and will not stop the process of the K1-Fiance` Visa. For those of you who are worried or upset that you have not received this NOA2, you need not worry. This NOA2 is not needed to move forward in the process of obtaining a Visa for your fiance`.

As to notifications, as long as when you check the status of your individual application using the receipt number that USCIS has given you from the 1st NOA, you have nothing to worry about. So the idea that NOA2 is a cruical and critical step is false. Do not be discouraged if you never receive this NOA2, your application is still moving forward! The only time you will need to worry is if they inform you via email or the USCIS website that your petition is disapproved.

If you need further guidance, feel free to contact me!

Thanks,

Neil

To my fellow kababayan.. If you look at my signature below or my timeline, you can pretty much have an idea what I am going through. I sent my application back in March and got a NOA1 in April. Not quite so sure when to start counting the days (from mailing or from NOA1 date). Anyways, if we are goint to start counting back in April this October will be my 6th month of waiting. Even with a RFE I've had I believe I am still overdue. I called yesterday because it's been more than 30 days since the case has resumed and still no NOA2 yet. The person I talked with yesterday was a nice gentleman and told me that my case is being reviewed by the officer and that I should hear something soon. But I am aware that with USCIS, soon can mean months instead of days, although I am trying to be positive and hoping for it before this month is over. As far as I know, NVC can only receive your case if the petition has been approved, but I am also aware that some never got their NOA2 email or hardcopy that made it to NVC which means that they have been approved or else NVC wouldn't have it in the first place.

I think some cases, not all, just happened to be in these mess or errors of USCIS' system. If everything flows perfectly as it should, everyone would have a smooth journey as follows..

After sending the application>>>>CHECK CASHED/CLEARED>>>>NOA1>>>>NOA2>>>>NVC>>>>Consulate/Embassy of the beneficiary>>>Packet 3 and 4 (medical and interview)>>>>VISA (if approved during the interview)...and follow other laws and regulations of the beneficiary's country before leaving..some countries the beneficiary needs to attend some conference or so before they can leave the country (like the Philippines).

AOS/EAD

o5-29-08--SENT THE AOS PACKAGE TO USCIS

o5-31-08--Item was delivered at 5:35 AM in CHICAGO, IL 60680.

o6-04-08--USCIS recieved the AOS and EAD package

o6-10-08--AOS and EAD NOA date

o6-14-08--Recieved a AOS and EAD notice for Biometric on June 24, 2008

o6-24-08--AOS and EAD Biometrics done today! @ 9:00 a.m in West Palm Fl.

o6-24-08--AOS and EAD touch!

o6-25-08--AOS and EAD touch!

o7-08-08--AOS case transfered to CSC

o7-11-08--AOS case pending at CSC

o8-07-08--EAD Card Production Ordered today!CRIS

o8-14-08--AOS touched

o8-15-08--Email from CRIS Welcoming for a new resident in the USA

o8-15-08--Email from CRIS EAD notice approval

o8-15-08--EAD card arrived in the mail, EAD was approved in 70 days.

o8-18-08--Received hard copy of WELCOME LETTER as a new resident in the USA

o8-25-08--GREEN CARD Card Production Ordered

o8-29-08--AOS Approved! without Interview

o9-02-08--Received GREEN CARD with out INTERVIEW, with out RFE.

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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Philippines
Timeline
Hello my friend,

How are you? i just wanna share it with you about my timeline....and i have a good news i've got a letter from national NVC informing us our MANILA CASE NUMBER MNL2007XXXXX.

Timeline:

April 28,2007---------------------my fiancee filed the I-129F and sent.

April 30,2007----------------------Delivered to USCIS.

May 04,2007---------------------- USCIS recieved our petition and have the case number WAC07XXXXXXXX.

August 29,2007-------------------We recieved mail from portfolio that our petition is approved.

September 09,2007--------------My fiancee recieved hard copy of NOA2 that our petition is approved.

September 24,2007---------------NVC recieved our case fiLE

September 27,2007- -------------we recieved our manila case number MNL2007XXXXXX from NVC.

Hope this info can help you....thank you my friend God bless you

Johna

Thanks Johna for sharing your timeline.. You are almost finished.. wish I had the same journey as you did.. God bless

I just finished a conference conversation with the National Visa Center, Congressman Pomeroy from the State of North Dakota, and myself concerning the I-797 Notice of Action form mailed to Visa petitioners. According to the National Visa Center, this notice of action stating the same thing you will see on the USCIS website or that is emailed to you is not important and will not stop the process of the K1-Fiance` Visa. For those of you who are worried or upset that you have not received this NOA2, you need not worry. This NOA2 is not needed to move forward in the process of obtaining a Visa for your fiance`.

As to notifications, as long as when you check the status of your individual application using the receipt number that USCIS has given you from the 1st NOA, you have nothing to worry about. So the idea that NOA2 is a cruical and critical step is false. Do not be discouraged if you never receive this NOA2, your application is still moving forward! The only time you will need to worry is if they inform you via email or the USCIS website that your petition is disapproved.

If you need further guidance, feel free to contact me!

Thanks,

Neil

To my fellow kababayan.. If you look at my signature below or my timeline, you can pretty much have an idea what I am going through. I sent my application back in March and got a NOA1 in April. Not quite so sure when to start counting the days (from mailing or from NOA1 date). Anyways, if we are goint to start counting back in April this October will be my 6th month of waiting. Even with a RFE I've had I believe I am still overdue. I called yesterday because it's been more than 30 days since the case has resumed and still no NOA2 yet. The person I talked with yesterday was a nice gentleman and told me that my case is being reviewed by the officer and that I should hear something soon. But I am aware that with USCIS, soon can mean months instead of days, although I am trying to be positive and hoping for it before this month is over. As far as I know, NVC can only receive your case if the petition has been approved, but I am also aware that some never got their NOA2 email or hardcopy that made it to NVC which means that they have been approved or else NVC wouldn't have it in the first place.

I think some cases, not all, just happened to be in these mess or errors of USCIS' system. If everything flows perfectly as it should, everyone would have a smooth journey as follows..

After sending the application>>>>CHECK CASHED/CLEARED>>>>NOA1>>>>NOA2>>>>NVC>>>>Consulate/Embassy of the beneficiary>>>Packet 3 and 4 (medical and interview)>>>>VISA (if approved during the interview)...and follow other laws and regulations of the beneficiary's country before leaving..some countries the beneficiary needs to attend some conference or so before they can leave the country (like the Philippines).

I-129F

Sent I-129F on March 19, 2007

NOA1 on April 12, 2007

Touched on August 8, 2007 (RFE NOTICE)

August 13, 2007 received RFE

August 13, 2007 sent RFE

Touched August 22: RFE received and case resumed

Touched October 2, 2007 (NOTICE OF APPROVAL)

THANK YOU THANK YOU JESUS!

November 13, 2007: NVC reiceved our case

November 14, 2007: MNL Case #

November 15, 2007: Sent to MNLA

November 20, 2007: Case arrive in USEM

November 24, 2007: Got medical and interview dates

November 29, 2007: She received packet 4

December 27, 2007: Medical

January 2, 2008: Went back for MMR & Results

January 2, 2008: Passed Medical!! THANK YOU GOD!

January 2, 2008: Sent documents via Fedex

January 5, 2008: Fiancee received documents

January 9, 2008: Interview! APPROVED! THANK YOU JESUS!

January 10, 2008: Received a call from USEM

January 11, 2008: Pick up Visa at 9AM

January 11, 2008: CFO (COMPLETED)

February 5, 2008: Me arriving in Philippines

February 12, 2008: TOGETHER FOREVER!

February 12, 2008: Arrival in the USA

April 12, 2008: WEDDING!

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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Philippines
Timeline

Yes, you are correct, you do need the NOA2 for the Adjustment of Status, but for visa processing, you do not need this document. And yes, you are correct in saying it costs a bundle, in fact, the actual cost is $355 to file for a duplicate... that is what bundle prices are these days!

Neil

I just finished a conference conversation with the National Visa Center, Congressman Pomeroy from the State of North Dakota, and myself concerning the I-797 Notice of Action form mailed to Visa petitioners. According to the National Visa Center, this notice of action stating the same thing you will see on the USCIS website or that is emailed to you is not important and will not stop the process of the K1-Fiance` Visa. For those of you who are worried or upset that you have not received this NOA2, you need not worry. This NOA2 is not needed to move forward in the process of obtaining a Visa for your fiance`.

As to notifications, as long as when you check the status of your individual application using the receipt number that USCIS has given you from the 1st NOA, you have nothing to worry about. So the idea that NOA2 is a cruical and critical step is false. Do not be discouraged if you never receive this NOA2, your application is still moving forward! The only time you will need to worry is if they inform you via email or the USCIS website that your petition is disapproved.

If you need further guidance, feel free to contact me!

Thanks,

Neil

You need to worry if you loose your NOA2, it is required for AOS and costs a bundle to get replaced

K 1

I-129F Sent----------------March 27, 07

I-129F NOA1---------------April 7, 07

I-129F RFE(s)--------------August 7, 07

RFE Reply(s)---------------August 23, 07

I-129F NOA2---------------August 28, 07

NVC Received--------------October 1, 07

NVC Left--------------------October 5, 07

Consulate Received-------October 9, 07

Packet 4 Received---------October 24, 07

Early Medical---------------Nov 14 and 15, 07

CFO seminar---------------afternoon of Nov 14, 07

Interview Date-------------November 27, 07 APPROVED!

Visa pick up ---------------December 4, 07

POE-------------------------Minneapolis, December 8, 07

Married -------------------- December 28, 2007

AOS

Sent AOS package----------------------Feb 15, 08

Package Received------------------------Feb 19, 08

Check Cashed----------------------------Feb 28, 08

NOA1 AOS/EAD---------------------------Feb 25, 08

Biometrics---------------------------------Mar 11, 08

Case transferred to CSC-----------------Mar 13, 08

AOS Touches------------------------------Mar 11, 13, 16, 22, 24, 25, 08

EAD Card Production Ordered-----------April 28, 08

EAD card production ordered AGAIN----May 1, 08

EAD email approval-------------------May 5, 08

EAD card in mail---------------------------May 5, 08

Start of My first job in USA---------------May 12, 2008

AOS touch----------------------------May 7,8,9,12,13,15,19, 08

Card production ordered------------June 10, 2008

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  • 1 month later...
I just finished a conference conversation with the National Visa Center, Congressman Pomeroy from the State of North Dakota, and myself concerning the I-797 Notice of Action form mailed to Visa petitioners. According to the National Visa Center, this notice of action stating the same thing you will see on the USCIS website or that is emailed to you is not important and will not stop the process of the K1-Fiance` Visa. For those of you who are worried or upset that you have not received this NOA2, you need not worry. This NOA2 is not needed to move forward in the process of obtaining a Visa for your fiance`.

As to notifications, as long as when you check the status of your individual application using the receipt number that USCIS has given you from the 1st NOA, you have nothing to worry about. So the idea that NOA2 is a cruical and critical step is false. Do not be discouraged if you never receive this NOA2, your application is still moving forward! The only time you will need to worry is if they inform you via email or the USCIS website that your petition is disapproved.

If you need further guidance, feel free to contact me!

Thanks,

Neil

Whoever says you can't love someone online is a fool. I love you DUKE !!!

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I just finished a conference conversation with the National Visa Center, Congressman Pomeroy from the State of North Dakota, and myself concerning the I-797 Notice of Action form mailed to Visa petitioners. According to the National Visa Center, this notice of action stating the same thing you will see on the USCIS website or that is emailed to you is not important and will not stop the process of the K1-Fiance` Visa. For those of you who are worried or upset that you have not received this NOA2, you need not worry. This NOA2 is not needed to move forward in the process of obtaining a Visa for your fiance`.

As to notifications, as long as when you check the status of your individual application using the receipt number that USCIS has given you from the 1st NOA, you have nothing to worry about. So the idea that NOA2 is a cruical and critical step is false. Do not be discouraged if you never receive this NOA2, your application is still moving forward! The only time you will need to worry is if they inform you via email or the USCIS website that your petition is disapproved.

If you need further guidance, feel free to contact me!

Thanks,

Neil

Whoever says you can't love someone online is a fool. I love you DUKE !!!

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I just finished a conference conversation with the National Visa Center, Congressman Pomeroy from the State of North Dakota, and myself concerning the I-797 Notice of Action form mailed to Visa petitioners. According to the National Visa Center, this notice of action stating the same thing you will see on the USCIS website or that is emailed to you is not important and will not stop the process of the K1-Fiance` Visa. For those of you who are worried or upset that you have not received this NOA2, you need not worry. This NOA2 is not needed to move forward in the process of obtaining a Visa for your fiance`.

As to notifications, as long as when you check the status of your individual application using the receipt number that USCIS has given you from the 1st NOA, you have nothing to worry about. So the idea that NOA2 is a cruical and critical step is false. Do not be discouraged if you never receive this NOA2, your application is still moving forward! The only time you will need to worry is if they inform you via email or the USCIS website that your petition is disapproved.

If you need further guidance, feel free to contact me!

Thanks,

Neil

Hi ! My fiancee received the NOA2 last Oct 12 and just 3 days ago he called the NVC to check if they receive our case. The guy told him that it's not yet with them. Just today, he inquired again and the lady told him that still they haven't got it and try calling back at the end of Nov. She further stated that sometimes it would take 90 days before they could receive it. This makes us upset.

Whoever says you can't love someone online is a fool. I love you DUKE !!!

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Hi ! My fiancee received the NOA2 last Oct 12 and just 3 days ago he called the NVC to check if they receive our case. The guy told him that it's not yet with them. Just today, he inquired again and the lady told him that still they haven't got it and try calling back at the end of Nov. She further stated that sometimes it would take 90 days before they could receive it. This makes us upset.

Because of mail contractors issues, CSC are now sending these NOA2 out to NVC in batches. Once a large crate is filled up then it will be sent out. Recently, the average wait is between 3-5 weeks. Not exactly the answer you'd like to hear, but this is a fact that we all have to deal with. :(

05/07/2007 : I-129F Sent

05/29/2007 : NOA1

09/28/2007 : NOA2 (144 days from filing date)

11/02/2007 : NVC Received Case (35 days from NOA2)

11/06/2007 : NVC Sent Case to HCM Consulate

11/16/2007 : HCMC Received Case

11/17/2007 : HCMC Sent Packet 3

11/20/2007 : HCMC Received Packet 3

12/10/2007 : HCMC Called Fiancee (Packet 4 Sent + Interview Date)

12/18/2007 : Packet 4 Received

01/02/2008 : Medical Appointment

01/09/2008 : Interview passed!

01/29/2008 : Visa Received

02/02/2008 : POE @ SFO

Favorite Links:

K1 Process Flowchart

Vietnam Visa Seekers

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Filed: AOS (pnd) Country: Japan
Timeline
As for the email updates, I have my case and requested email upates, and that is how I determined that my petition was approved... through their email notification of statuses which you can elect to receive if you sign up for this! It is FREE, so why not right?

Neil

I'm one of those who signed up for email notifications when I first sent in my I-129f and never received one. I received my NOA2 (by snail mail) on 10/22, with an approval date of 10/18. I called CSC to check on my status as to why NVC didn't have my case yet and mentioned the fact that the website was still not updated to reflect an approval. The next day, they finally updated the website, and as of today, I've still never received an email. So free or not (which it is, of course) some people never get an email or a website update. Unfortunately, it doesn't always run the way they say it will.

As of today, 4 weeks later, NVC says they have not received my case and CSC says it was sent out on 11/6. Others that were sent out on that date have their new case numbers and are on their way to the respective embassies. So, great :( now I have to wait for 90 days before they will run a search on it.

K-1 Timeline:

May 31, 2007 - Mailed I-129F to Nebraska

Oct. 22, 2007 - NOA2 Hard Copy received!! No email/website update.

Nov. 16, 2007 - Paperwork found & received by NVC!

Jan. 7, 2008 - Finally got the interview date

Jan. 28, 2008 - Interview!! Approved!!!

Feb. 12, 2008 - Arrives in USA!!!

Feb. 18, 2008 - Wedding Day!!!!!!

Feb. 19, 2008 - Apply for SSN

AOS Timeline:

Mar. 12, 2008 - Packet mailed (AOS, EAD, & AP)

Mar. 12, 2008 - Husband's SSN arrives

Mar. 14, 2008 - AOS pkt was delivered at 7:52 AM & signed for by V BUSTAMANTE.

Mar. 18, 2008 - Check cashed!!

Mar. 21, 2008 - NOA's for AOS, EAD & I-131!! (Dated 3-18-08)

Mar. 31, 2008 - Can finally see AP & EAD online!!

Apr. 10, 2008 - Biometrics finished! Can finally see AOS online & EAD touch!

May 12, 2008 - Email: AP approved!!

May 14, 2008 - Email: EAD approved!!

May 16, 2008 - EAD card & AP in hand!!

Sept 19, 2008 - Interview letter - Oct. 24th - Seattle??

Oct. 21, 2008 - A Touch..WOW!! The interviewer must've put it on his/her desk!

Oct. 24, 2008 - Interview..now back to waiting!

Nov 13, 2008 - Approved! Card Production Ordered...finally!!

Nov 24, 2008 - Card arrives!!!!

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I agree with you, status updates on the USCIS website is sometimes rare, but if it is so rare that nothing is heard, then I think my first inclination would be to make a call! If the call to the USCIS does not resolve or answer your questions, that is when I would make a call to your Congressman! Belive me, as I have found out today, this is definitely one way to get answers, and get them quickly!

As for the email updates, I have my case and requested email upates, and that is how I determined that my petition was approved... through their email notification of statuses which you can elect to receive if you sign up for this! It is FREE, so why not right?

Neil

It states that you will need verification of approval. When you go to the USCIS website, you can print the status by using a button called a Printer Friendly Status... this as I have been informed by the National Visa Center is acceptable and will be acceptable replacement for a NOA2 that has never been received!

As for those who do not have an updated status, call the USCIS directly or wait for them to update their website. It is your choice, I prefer to make calls and get action rather than sit on my duff!

Neil

My point was that some (many?) people get no status update online. This means that if they never get a NOA2, they cannot know that they have been approved. Admittedly, most people without an update appear to have received a hard copy I-797, but certainly no e-mail (kinda unlikely without the online status update).

This puts us in a position of having to call USCIS every %^&* day to see what's up. Great. And even then some folks there just look at their screens and say sorry, no update; be patient etc.

In the meantime, the petition may already be approved, on its way to NVC or on its way to the embassy. All without us having heard a peep. Not cool.

I mean, how many errors can there be: no NOA1s mailed out, no NOA2s, no online updates, arbitrary touches etc etc.

:blink:

I never received any e-mail from Vermont. The only way I know my petition was approved is by logging on to their site every day, few times per day. Although many people vrom VJ might do that, I don't think that's the case with general public applying for K1's, so for many not getting hard copy is a big deal.

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