Islam: a Plan for World Domination?

[Peikko 1,575]

dearie, í spent 20 years in the military. i'm quite aware of military planning, execution and the multitude of restrictions placed upon operations along with the consideration of legal aspects with such, unlike you who have nothing but experience as an armchair general.

Then you should be very conversant with those occaisions when military expediency overtakes the needs of civilian populations...or are your experiences purely on the home front?

[smoke20 0]

someone shoots at our soldiers=a valid target. you not debating anything your justifing action of cowardly terrorist. IQ of a Geico caveman & emotional rage of a 2 year old

Sure - I can see that. You're in a crowded market place and some shots go off - I can bet you'd know right away who fired it and from where.

i may not know where it came from immediatley, but i sure as hell would find out. i wouldn't say "aahh shucks i guess if they're gonna hide behind a kid i can't return fire".

How would you find out?

any means nessesary

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

and you base that on what?

If you lose your temper just because you don't agree with someone else's opinion, you aren't going to last very long. Temper and engaging in warfare don't go well together, despite what the films might imply.

it's obvious i spent more time cleaning my fingernails while deployed overseas than you spent in the military. people lose their temper all the time in the military. i'd much rather have someone beside me who can get angry than someone who shows no emotion in a firefight.

ok so break it down for me, chief - is rambo real or not

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

and you base that on what?

If you lose your temper just because you don't agree with someone else's opinion, you aren't going to last very long. Temper and engaging in warfare don't go well together, despite what the films might imply.

it's obvious i spent more time cleaning my fingernails while deployed overseas than you spent in the military. people lose their temper all the time in the military. i'd much rather have someone beside me who can get angry than someone who shows no emotion in a firefight.

ok so break it down for me, chief - is rambo real or not

Hoo-Ah!

[Dan J 277]

and you're cutting the post he was reponding to to fit your need. if the pussies run & hide where children are or shoot from behind a child is no different. chicken sh!t coward is chicken sh!t coward.

& a fuckin azzhole argueing on the cowards behalf is an idiot.

Your emoticons are showing. Seriously, can you really not see that both sides in conflict do things that would be totally unacceptable in times of peace? Or are you really that convinced that somehow the US is always absolutely right and that to fight against a US soldier is fundamentally wrong unless you do it in such a way as to ensure you die, and in so doing secure some kind of honour?

I accept that there are differences in intent between different cultures and nations when it comes to conflict, but I am very hesitant to say that the West is always right. We also know and have proof that Western military have made, do make and probably will continue to make decisions that directly result in civilian death because there is some military expediency that makes this an acceptable in times of conflict.

It's disingenous to label the enemy 'evil and cowardly' but I do understand why some people feel the need to do this.

####### can you not see that using people as shields does happen everyday! yes my emotions are showing & my anger is also. how can you people keep defending this cowards? & say "i'm just showing the other side"

Assuming they are using human shields, humans are not very good at stopping bullets, especially with some of the weapons the military uses. Considering they are out matched technology wise and training wise to American soldiers. How do you propose they fight? Are they wrong to use any advantage they can get?

If you are looking for a fair fight, then they need to get the training and technology that the US soldiers have. Then you can have your fair fight. But thats obviously not going to happen. These people are not part of any international laws or rules, they don't really fight on the behalf of a state. They are going to use whatever advantage they can get to even the odds. Making it harder to for US soldiers to find them or target them is their advantage. And it works in two ways. One its harder for them to be located, caught or killed. Two, if a US solider accidentally harms a civilian in the process, it turns more of the population against the US soldiers.

Just like our soldiers believe they are fight a just cause. So do those that we are fighting against.

Whats right and whats wrong in the war, its a matter of perspective. How much are you going to be liking the US occupation when they drop a bomb that kills half your family? How do soldiers feel when a roadside bomb takes out a squad? Both are really cowardly in a sense. But both sides are making use of the tools they have at their disposal. Iraqi insurgents Don't have planes to drop bombs on US soldiers. They find other ways to get back at them.

Well how many of the insurgent's tactics, you mention, are acceptable under the Geneva convention???

What double standards we have here. If an insurgent was to use a freakin flame thrower to burn people in a market place people would be ow well. YET, if American soldiers used the same tactic on the insurgents and not civilians, Forgetaboutit!!! NYT and every other wanker US hating website would be on to it like a freaking hawk.. I guess you don't see what is wrong with that..

How many terrorist groups signed the Geneva convention?

We signed it, and misused it with creative labeling.

Correct. Therefore in a war where the Geneva convention does not apply to one side, it should also not apply to the other. So if the US nukes a town we know the insurgents are hiding, then ###### happens right... Since as you said, they have their guerrilla tactics, we have our technology and should be allowed to use it.

Just because the other side isn't part of it, doesn't release us from our responsibilities under the Geneva convention.

But because we are a state, and part of international law, our actions within those laws can affect our relationships with other countries. We take out the nukes? there will be hell to pay. Not only that, you will basically destroy relationships with any Arab country, which will cut us off for significant supplies of oil. An action that would have costs beyond the battlefield.

Any significant action in violation of international law on our part will have repercussions all across the middle east, and likely the world.

[Peikko 1,575]

I'll take the unemotional person every time. He's probably crazy, but he'll probably not shoot the 2 year old instead of the guerilla.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

any means nessesary

No 'specific' ideas then.

[Ban Hammer 14,273]

dearie, í spent 20 years in the military. i'm quite aware of military planning, execution and the multitude of restrictions placed upon operations along with the consideration of legal aspects with such, unlike you who have nothing but experience as an armchair general.

Then you should be very conversant with those occaisions when military expediency overtakes the needs of civilian populations...or are your experiences purely on the home front?

you either have alzheimer's or you've not read much, i stated earlier i was in what is called the first gulf war. saw both northern and southern iraq for 6 months each. nice try with the remf comment.

and no, there is no occasion where military expediancy overtakes the needs of civilian populations as such can result in a trial at the hague. do you really think for one instant any commander would bless off on such a plan?

and you base that on what?

If you lose your temper just because you don't agree with someone else's opinion, you aren't going to last very long. Temper and engaging in warfare don't go well together, despite what the films might imply.

it's obvious i spent more time cleaning my fingernails while deployed overseas than you spent in the military. people lose their temper all the time in the military. i'd much rather have someone beside me who can get angry than someone who shows no emotion in a firefight.

ok so break it down for me, chief - is rambo real or not

fake.......real special ops guys make rambo look like a boy scout.

[Heracles 417]

As you said you hate war. Whereas I am not afraid to fight what I stand for. Many of you fail to realize or accept most nations where built and secured through means of war and not by blogs or forums.

Some great rhetoric and some failure to understand what I say, but no attempt to construct any form of argument, which leaves us where exactly?

Likewise your argument is stock standard left wing rhetoric. War is bad and wrong. No sh!t.. but is also inevitable unless you have your head in the sand. You know like-minded people had the same attitude in WWII. Hence why 50,000,000+ people ended up dead..

Many on the left also fail to accept Bin Laden's own quote, "We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.".. So whether you accept war and violence or not, others will bring it to your door step. The worst thing a nation can do is sit there, like a naive idiot, and take it. Much like being a victim of bullying. Until someone fights back the bully will never ever stop.

Edited September 13, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Ban Hammer 14,273]

I'll take the unemotional person every time. He's probably crazy, but he'll probably not shoot the 2 year old instead of the guerilla.

and just how do you know that if "...he's probably crazy"" eh?

[smoke20 0]

I'll take the unemotional person every time. He's probably crazy, but he'll probably not shoot the 2 year old instead of the guerilla.

if he's holding the 2 year old & shooting at me. its his fault the 2 year old is on his hands. and no i'm not crazy, i'm not wuzzie apologist either.BTW: why don't you start directiong comments about me to me.

Edited September 13, 2007 by smoke20

[Peikko 1,575]

I am sure there are a lot of dead civilians who are very glad to hear that.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As you said you hate war. Whereas I am not afraid to fight what I stand for. Many of you fail to realize or accept most nations where built and secured through means of war and not by blogs or forums.

Some great rhetoric and some failure to understand what I say, but no attempt to construct any form of argument, which leaves us where exactly?

Likewise your argument is stock standard left wing rhetoric. War is bad and wrong. No sh!t.. but is also inevitable unless you have your head in the sand. You know like-minded people had the same attitude in WWII. Hence why 50,000,000+ people ended up dead..

Many on the left also fail to accept Bin Laden's own quote, "We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.".. So whether you accept war and violence or not, others will bring it to your door step. The worst thing a nation can do is sit there like an idiot and take it. Much like being a victim of bullying. Until someone fights back the bully will never ever stop.

Actually all that was being pointed out was that people assume that the enemy always fight 'dirty' while the military fight 'clean'. Given the complexity of urban warfare (a person doesn't need to be a military genius to have at least some grasp of the incredible chaos of an urban battlefield) its not clear how such a determination can be made that doesn't rely on self-righteous ideological assumptions.

[smoke20 0]

I am sure there are a lot of dead civilians who are very glad to hear that.

i'm sure a lot of our service men & woman would be thrilled to know you think of them as crazy barbarians. especially since they are fighting a war to keep your azz safe & free to bash them on an internet message board.

[Peikko 1,575]

Likewise your argument is stock standard left wing rhetoric. War is bad and wrong. No sh!t.. but is also inevitable unless you have your head in the sand. You know like-minded people had the same attitude in WWII. Hence why 50,000,000+ people ended up dead..

Many on the left also fail to accept Bin Laden's own quote, "We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.".. So whether you accept war and violence or not, others will bring it to your door step. The worst thing a nation can do is sit there, like a naive idiot, and take it. Much like being a victim of bullying. Until someone fights back the bully will never ever stop.

Which would work if there was an agressor in the first place...but I seem to remember the reason we went into Iraq was to look for WMD's...or prevent Israel from starting a war (which is a theory I need to research more). Either way, it's hard to argue that the US was a victim of anything. Mind you, war is inevitable and all that...