Collapse in US lending standards has "central banks are scared out of their minds"

[Dan J 277]

And even then, you don't earn much more in a lead position over your average worker.

Really? I must have always been quite lucky then. Across various industries and companies. You just made my day. Thx.

I bet most of the people you started out at the bottom with are still there or in a similar job.

I beg to differ. I started out in one of those jobs (many of them really) and I did work my way up from the bottom. I picked apples, hoed fields, put up hay, flipped hamburgers and washed cars. Each job taught me something that I could use to step up in the world. They also kept me going while I worked my way through tech school. Now I couldn't do the same thing because of the illegals. They are willing to work for half of what I would make at the same job. I am essentially shut out of the starter jobs that Americans need when they try to get a start in life.

You can still do it, you just have to show a business that your worth more than someone else. If your only advantage over another worker is simply that you are a USC, your likely to be screwed. But if you can show that you have advantages or skills other workers don't have, then getting ahead is not very difficult and can definetly still be done today.

[Heracles 417]

How many low skilled jobs do that? Unless you improve your skills, you are going to stay were you are at. Some might get into lead or manager positions, but there are not positions like that for everyone. And even then, you don't earn much more in a lead position over your average worker. Depending on your situation, you may still be in poverty.

A job is a job. It is a hell of a lot better than no income. Clearly the 12,000,000+ illegal immigrants are taking somebody else's job otherwise they would not be here. Why do you think Canada and Aus have a points system for immigrants. Only if there is a shortage in xyz will someone be allowed to migrate to the country, in limited numbers, on a work visa.

Whereas illegal immigrants come here as they see fit. Someone has to pay for this. While the employers win, the poor in America lose.

[mawilson 2,133]

If your only advantage over another worker is simply that you are a USC, your likely to be screwed.

Well that's a big problem, isn't it? Given the choice between an illegal and a USC, it's the illegal

that's supposed to be "screwed", not the USC.

[Heracles 417]

That may have been true 50 years ago, when a low skilled manufacturing job could get you a middle class life. But things have changed. Without education, there are very few if any opportunities to get ahead. You can still do it, but you have to take more initiative to seek out better opportunities.

Not really. As I said before the average self employed tradesman in AUS earns between $65K to $130K, with no student debt. The problem in the US is that no American blue-collar worker has a chance when someone can hire an illegal immigrant for 1/10 the cost..

[Ban Hammer 14,571]

And even then, you don't earn much more in a lead position over your average worker.

Really? I must have always been quite lucky then. Across various industries and companies. You just made my day. Thx.

I bet most of the people you started out at the bottom with are still there or in a similar job.

I beg to differ. I started out in one of those jobs (many of them really) and I did work my way up from the bottom. I picked apples, hoed fields, put up hay, flipped hamburgers and washed cars. Each job taught me something that I could use to step up in the world. They also kept me going while I worked my way through tech school. Now I couldn't do the same thing because of the illegals. They are willing to work for half of what I would make at the same job. I am essentially shut out of the starter jobs that Americans need when they try to get a start in life.

You can still do it, you just have to show a business that your worth more than someone else. If your only advantage over another worker is simply that you are a USC, your likely to be screwed. But if you can show that you have advantages or skills other workers don't have, then getting ahead is not very difficult and can definetly still be done today.

you're still not getting it are you?

usc + minimum wage / competing illegal * half minimum wage = no job.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Good grief Boo-Yah, where do you get these ridiculous ideas about our "stagnant economy"

or "Australian brick layers making more than US managers"?

Let's see...

US GDP per capita: $44,000 vs Australia's $32,900

US GDP growth: 3.2% vs Australia's 3.8%

US Inflation: 2.4% vs Australia's 2.1%

US unemployment rate: 4.4% vs Australia's 4.3%

So far the numbers seem pretty similar, except:

US National Debt: 62% of GDP

Australia's National Debt: 90% of GDP

The economy has stagnated in comparison to the rest of the world. The only thing still keeping it afloat is companies who are operating abroad. This easy credit and property flipping gave the economy the illusion that all was well. Which is clearly not the case. i would recommend looking at the WSJ..

PS Brick layers downunder can make up to $1000 USD per day.. Due to a shortage of skilled blue-collar workers, most average a good $65K to $130k annually..

What countries are you basing that comparison on? I think you could say that about a lot of countries. The US isn't the only country to have outsourced the bulk of its manufacturing base to other countries - that seems pretty standard once you move towards a service sector economy.

[Dan J 277]

How many low skilled jobs do that? Unless you improve your skills, you are going to stay were you are at. Some might get into lead or manager positions, but there are not positions like that for everyone. And even then, you don't earn much more in a lead position over your average worker. Depending on your situation, you may still be in poverty.

A job is a job. It is a hell of a lot better than no income. Clearly the 12,000,000+ illegal immigrants are taking somebody else's job otherwise they would not be here. Why do you think Canada and Aus have a points system for immigrants. Only if there is a shortage in xyz will someone be allowed to migrate to the country, in limited numbers, on a work visa.

Whereas illegal immigrants come here as they see fit. Someone has to pay for this. While the employers win, the poor in America lose.

There is no shortage of jobs. In fact we have been adding jobs at a quite high rate. If someone doesn't have a job, there is probably a good reason for it.

[Dan J 277]

And even then, you don't earn much more in a lead position over your average worker.

Really? I must have always been quite lucky then. Across various industries and companies. You just made my day. Thx.

I bet most of the people you started out at the bottom with are still there or in a similar job.

I beg to differ. I started out in one of those jobs (many of them really) and I did work my way up from the bottom. I picked apples, hoed fields, put up hay, flipped hamburgers and washed cars. Each job taught me something that I could use to step up in the world. They also kept me going while I worked my way through tech school. Now I couldn't do the same thing because of the illegals. They are willing to work for half of what I would make at the same job. I am essentially shut out of the starter jobs that Americans need when they try to get a start in life.

You can still do it, you just have to show a business that your worth more than someone else. If your only advantage over another worker is simply that you are a USC, your likely to be screwed. But if you can show that you have advantages or skills other workers don't have, then getting ahead is not very difficult and can definetly still be done today.

you're still not getting it are you?

usc + minimum wage / competing illegal * half minimum wage = no job.

No, its like this, higher paid worker and lower paid worker. They are both as productive, which one would you hire?

If you want to justify being paid more, you need to show that you are worth more.

[Heracles 417]

If your only advantage over another worker is simply that you are a USC, your likely to be screwed.

Well that's a big problem, isn't it? Given the choice between an illegal and a USC, it's the illegal

that's supposed to be "screwed", not the USC.

Exaaaaaaactly. The employer should not have a choice. With the current situation it is the American who loses as they are simply not hired in favor for the illegal immigrant. Any company caught employing illegal immigrants should be heavily fined and publicly shamed as they screwing over Americans for their own gain. Screwing over fellow Americans, for a profit, is NOT what this country was founded on.

Edited August 21, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Ban Hammer 14,571]

If someone doesn't have a job, there is probably a good reason for it.

such as?

[mawilson 2,133]

If someone doesn't have a job, there is probably a good reason for it.

such as?

Illegals?

[Heracles 417]

Given that these days you need a degree to meet the minimum requirements for most (if not all) professional jobs, if you don't have that / can't afford it you're going to have real problems.

so again i have to wonder. if a kid wants to go to college yet can't get one of these low skill jobs to save money while on summer vacation, what then is he or she to do?

Plenty of kids I went to school with still worked construction or painting houses in summers to get themselves partially through school. The biggest problem with the low-wage-to-save-for-college plan is the rising cost of college, not the inability to find summer work. When my dad went to college it was possible to come up with tuition and living expense in a summer's work. That's $45,000 a year at some schools now. So summer work tends to be more book money.

I would love to see the U.S. re-establish its manufacturing base.

Try doing that now... Not an option anymore with illegal immigrants..

[Dan J 277]

That may have been true 50 years ago, when a low skilled manufacturing job could get you a middle class life. But things have changed. Without education, there are very few if any opportunities to get ahead. You can still do it, but you have to take more initiative to seek out better opportunities.

Not really. As I said before the average self employed tradesman in AUS earns between $65K to $130K, with no student debt. The problem in the US is that no American blue-collar worker has a chance when someone can hire an illegal immigrant for 1/10 the cost..

Have you looked at being a plumber recently? You can still earn pretty good money doing that.

[Ban Hammer 14,571]

And even then, you don't earn much more in a lead position over your average worker.

Really? I must have always been quite lucky then. Across various industries and companies. You just made my day. Thx.

I bet most of the people you started out at the bottom with are still there or in a similar job.

I beg to differ. I started out in one of those jobs (many of them really) and I did work my way up from the bottom. I picked apples, hoed fields, put up hay, flipped hamburgers and washed cars. Each job taught me something that I could use to step up in the world. They also kept me going while I worked my way through tech school. Now I couldn't do the same thing because of the illegals. They are willing to work for half of what I would make at the same job. I am essentially shut out of the starter jobs that Americans need when they try to get a start in life.

You can still do it, you just have to show a business that your worth more than someone else. If your only advantage over another worker is simply that you are a USC, your likely to be screwed. But if you can show that you have advantages or skills other workers don't have, then getting ahead is not very difficult and can definetly still be done today.

you're still not getting it are you?

usc + minimum wage / competing illegal * half minimum wage = no job.

No, its like this, higher paid worker and lower paid worker. They are both as productive, which one would you hire?

If you want to justify being paid more, you need to show that you are worth more.

obviously the legal choice, but such escapes you apparently.

a usc shouldn't have to justify why they should be paid the minimum wage over an illegal anyways. that's not brain surgery.

[Dan J 277]

If someone doesn't have a job, there is probably a good reason for it.

such as?

Illegals?

Or they don't want to do the jobs that are available. Have disabilities that limit the kind of jobs they can do. Have trouble holding down a job. No initiative to take education seriously or try to get ahead.