Senate resuscitates immigration bill

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

And in a lot of cases, no one ever asks for ID or receives a 1099, because the employer wants it under the table and the employee doesn't care. So no theft has occurred, and you're going to have a hell of a time proving tax evasion with work done in cash with no paperwork.

Just have them demonstrate how they sustained themselves in the US. Must have lived from something. Have them demonstrate what the source of income was, from where, how much, how that sufficed to sustain oneself and how it was taxed. It'd sure be fun to watch...

On what grounds?

On the grounds that they are looking for a benefit from this government. They're not entitled to be here nor are they entitled to be documented and legalized. The government gets to make the rules under which they might qualify. Let's not forget that. Don't like it? Don't apply and go home. I remember having had to reveal all kinds of personal and financial information - including my income sources and related tax filings - to the government to get my spouse here. And I am a citizen of this country. If the government can require this from me when I apply for a benefit (immigrate my spouse), surely the government can ask the same from an alien that is looking to petition the government for a right to remain here.

[mawilson 2,133]

Do you extend that to people who came here illegally 25 years ago, and now have a legal USC family whom they are dependent on?

erekose,

When you build your life like a house of cards, you shouldn't be surprised when it eventually falls down.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Point is they had my GC on file - together with the expiry date. Granted its a needle in a haystack for HR - but seems to me a company should be aware of limitations on working eligibility and the potential liability they could face for not checking.

If I present my passport for evidence of employment eligibility, the employer will not ask me to present it again after the expiry date. Same goes for Permanent Residents. I think that's odd, too, but it's still what the requirement is or is not.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Wait, if they're not supposed to ask, how are they supposed to know that he's a permanent resident?

They have a copy of his GC. He said as much. They're not tracking expiration dates on GC just as they don't track expiration dates on DL's, US passports or whatever renewable document you present to prove your employment eligibility.

[mawilson 2,133]

My company doesn't seem too concerned to follow up on these things - I didn't submit my I-751 NOA until after my GC had expired. No one asked me to provide it.

No-one needs to ask. I tend to think they're not supposed to ask. You're not referred to as a "permanent" resident for no reason.

They are not even *allowed* to ask, as per SSA regulations:

In case of no match:

• DO NOT ask employees on the no-match list to bring in their Social Security card or other
  immigration-related documents. Immigration law requires employers to check new hires to ensure that
  they have work authorization, and to fill out an INS Form I-9. Employees may show employers any
  document listed on the INS I-9 form to comply with this requirement. Once this is done, employers are not
  permitted to re-check an employee’s immigration documents, as this can constitute unlawful discrimination.
  

[Caladan 19]

And in a lot of cases, no one ever asks for ID or receives a 1099, because the employer wants it under the table and the employee doesn't care. So no theft has occurred, and you're going to have a hell of a time proving tax evasion with work done in cash with no paperwork.

Just have them demonstrate how they sustained themselves in the US. Must have lived from something. Have them demonstrate what the source of income was, from where, how much, how that sufficed to sustain oneself and how it was taxed. It'd sure be fun to watch...

On what grounds?

On the grounds that they are looking for a benefit from this government. They're not entitled to be here nor are they entitled to be documented and legalized. The government gets to make the rules under which they might qualify. Let's not forget that. Don't like it? Don't apply and go home. I remember having had to reveal all kinds of personal and financial information - including my income sources and related tax filings - to the government to get my spouse here. And I am a citizen of this country. If the government can require this from me when I apply for a benefit (immigrate my spouse), surely the government can ask the same from an alien that is looking to petition the government for a right to remain here.

Someone who is illegal is not petitioning for a benefit. If they do, they have to demonstrate income like everyone else. But absent that, if someone says, "I don't believe you can afford that apartment on a grad student's salary, you must be working under the table, prove you're not working illegally" I'm pretty sure I'm within my rights to ask for a warrant or to tell the cops to go to hell.

And you cannot will into existence documentation that does not exist, so you're not going to be able to catch them on tad fraud if neither the employer nor the employee have kept records.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

My company doesn't seem too concerned to follow up on these things - I didn't submit my I-751 NOA until after my GC had expired. No one asked me to provide it.

No-one needs to ask. I tend to think they're not supposed to ask. You're not referred to as a "permanent" resident for no reason.

They are not even *allowed* to ask, as per SSA regulations:

In case of no match:

• DO NOT ask employees on the no-match list to bring in their Social Security card or other
  immigration-related documents. Immigration law requires employers to check new hires to ensure that
  they have work authorization, and to fill out an INS Form I-9. Employees may show employers any
  document listed on the INS I-9 form to comply with this requirement. Once this is done, employers are not
  permitted to re-check an employee’s immigration documents, as this can constitute unlawful discrimination.
  

Doesn't that cause the employer some liability issues though?

[mawilson 2,133]

My company doesn't seem too concerned to follow up on these things - I didn't submit my I-751 NOA until after my GC had expired. No one asked me to provide it.

No-one needs to ask. I tend to think they're not supposed to ask. You're not referred to as a "permanent" resident for no reason.

They are not even *allowed* to ask, as per SSA regulations:

In case of no match:

• DO NOT ask employees on the no-match list to bring in their Social Security card or other
  immigration-related documents. Immigration law requires employers to check new hires to ensure that
  they have work authorization, and to fill out an INS Form I-9. Employees may show employers any
  document listed on the INS I-9 form to comply with this requirement. Once this is done, employers are not
  permitted to re-check an employee’s immigration documents, as this can constitute unlawful discrimination.
  

Doesn't that cause the employer some liability issues though?

None - if the employer can prove they checked the documents at the time of hire.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

And in a lot of cases, no one ever asks for ID or receives a 1099, because the employer wants it under the table and the employee doesn't care. So no theft has occurred, and you're going to have a hell of a time proving tax evasion with work done in cash with no paperwork.

Just have them demonstrate how they sustained themselves in the US. Must have lived from something. Have them demonstrate what the source of income was, from where, how much, how that sufficed to sustain oneself and how it was taxed. It'd sure be fun to watch...

On what grounds?

On the grounds that they are looking for a benefit from this government. They're not entitled to be here nor are they entitled to be documented and legalized. The government gets to make the rules under which they might qualify. Let's not forget that. Don't like it? Don't apply and go home. I remember having had to reveal all kinds of personal and financial information - including my income sources and related tax filings - to the government to get my spouse here. And I am a citizen of this country. If the government can require this from me when I apply for a benefit (immigrate my spouse), surely the government can ask the same from an alien that is looking to petition the government for a right to remain here.

Someone who is illegal is not petitioning for a benefit.

If they want to legalize their status they are. That is what I am talking about.

I am not interested in knocking on someone's door just for shits and giggles.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

My company doesn't seem too concerned to follow up on these things - I didn't submit my I-751 NOA until after my GC had expired. No one asked me to provide it.

No-one needs to ask. I tend to think they're not supposed to ask. You're not referred to as a "permanent" resident for no reason.

They are not even *allowed* to ask, as per SSA regulations:

In case of no match:

• DO NOT ask employees on the no-match list to bring in their Social Security card or other
  immigration-related documents. Immigration law requires employers to check new hires to ensure that
  they have work authorization, and to fill out an INS Form I-9. Employees may show employers any
  document listed on the INS I-9 form to comply with this requirement. Once this is done, employers are not
  permitted to re-check an employee’s immigration documents, as this can constitute unlawful discrimination.
  

Doesn't that cause the employer some liability issues though?

None - if the employer can prove they checked the documents at the time of hire.

Right.

“GREEN CARDS”

The terms Resident Alien Card, Permanent Resident Card, Alien Registration Receipt Card, and Form I-551 all refer to documentation issued to an alien who has been granted permanent residence in the U.S.. Once granted, this status is permanent. However, the document that an alien carries as proof of this status may expire. Starting with the “pink” version of the Resident Alien Card (the “white” version does not bear an expiration date), and including the new technology Permanent Resident Cards, these documents are valid for either two years (conditional residents) or ten years (permanent residents). When these cards expire, the alien cardholders must obtain new cards. An expired card cannot be used to satisfy Form I-9 requirements for new employment. Expiration dates do not affect current employment, since employers are neither required nor permitted to re-verify the employment authorization of aliens who have presented one of these cards to satisfy I-9 requirements (this is true for conditional residents as well as permanent residents).

USCIS

[udlike2no2 0]

Come on wake up this has nothing to do with illegal aliens they have known this for years; it’s all about money and big business period. This is amnesty for the business that have been breaking the law for years. If it is passed the business get a pass on what they have been doing. What really pisses me of is that they know where many of the illegal aliens are and do nothing about it but if you are in the system like all of us VJ’s and you over stay a visa someone would get that list and try to uphold the law and deport them. The ones that they know that are not in the system they don’t want to be bothered with. They tried to get do away with SS a few years back and now I think they found a way to do it with this bill trying to back door us all. Now they want to call the illegal aliens (undocumented workers) so lets call the drug dealers (Un-licensed Pharmacists). Heard that one and just loved it. It is all about big business and money and they can care less about you, me and the illegal aliens. BTW the 5,000 all sounds good right but they will never do anything about getting it just like they are not doing anything about the business letting them work. If you believe this know wonder it is so easy for them to push bills like this all the time and we deserve what we get.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Wow! I just finished reading from my last post. I derived one thing in this thread and that is when someones point of view is getting tore up and proven wrong. They turn to accusations,deflecting blame,changing the subject.

By the way ET niice job you must be exhausted. Steve bailed and went to start a new thread on law

[udlike2no2 0]

OMG, I just got a great idea instead of all us VJ’s waiting for your loved ones to get there visa’s and all the sad story’s of people waiting for them to come. You should just have them go to Mexico witch like you say is so poor that they need to come to the US to work that I am sure there borders are so much easer to get in to than our. Have them come across our borders hide out or even work. You will be together and no more sad lonely story’s to read in JV because loved ones would be together. Than just wait till they pass the law and you will save all the fees that USINS has tripled. Now all you amnesty lovers can have amnesty in the name of love. Please give me a break guys this is more entertainment than I can stand!!!!!!!!!!

Edited June 28, 2007 by udlike2no2

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Wow! I just finished reading from my last post. I derived one thing in this thread and that is when someones point of view is getting tore up and proven wrong. They turn to accusations,deflecting blame,changing the subject.

You'd be the authority on that, I think (looks at C&M's post history)

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Wow! I just finished reading from my last post. I derived one thing in this thread and that is when someones point of view is getting tore up and proven wrong. They turn to accusations,deflecting blame,changing the subject.

You'd be the authority on that, I think (looks at C&M's post history)

Your obsessed Erekose!