Update! More than 20 dead in Virginia Tech shootings

[Heracles 417]

Regardless of whether his country of origin has anything to do with the crime...you guys KNOW that people will make an issue of it....they'll say there's not enough mental screening of immigrants...and it will definitely affect people here and their own VJ's...I'm sure of it.

What is your point? Why would mental screening be a negative for potential immigrants??

Edited April 17, 2007 by Infidel

[Heracles 417]

Incidents like these indicate that much more research needs to be carried out on the causes and negative influences on society. As well as more funding needs to go into helping and treating people with mental issues.

You would think after 5,000 years we would have learned by now that proactive prevention is better than reactive responses, which usually come after a great loss..

Edited April 17, 2007 by Infidel

[DeadPoolX 9]

Regardless of whether his country of origin has anything to do with the crime...you guys KNOW that people will make an issue of it....they'll say there's not enough mental screening of immigrants...and it will definitely affect people here and their own VJ's...I'm sure of it.

What is your point? Why would mental screening be a negative for potential immigrants??

How exactly would you go about doing this? Would USCIS retain psychologists (there'd be no real need for psychiatrists as no medication would be getting prescribed) in their employ? If not, who would be qualified to decide whether or not a person is mentally unstable or stable?

Just what is "unstable" and what is "stable?" If you're a psychologist or psychiatrist, then you follow the DSM-IV-TR. If you're not, then it may come down to personal opinion, in which case, the situation may be heavily biased by the person holding the interview. After all, some laypersons view depression as an ailment of a mentally unbalanced person while others view it as something everyone has at some point in their lifetime.

Then what if the intended immigrant is taking prescribed medication? Would that hinder their progress? I am fully in-favor of psychiatric medication, when prescribed correctly. Many people require it. There's no shame in it. Unfortunately, not everyone feels the same way and there's still a social stigma attached to the idea that "you need medication for your problem." This is wrong, in my opinion, but if the interviewer was not a trained and licensed psychologist, then these viewpoints may enter into the equation.

I'm studying to become a licensed psychologist. I can tell you that it's a very in-depth and time consuming process to meet with someone and conduct therapy. Even if you're not performing full-fledged therapy (and more of an interview), the point is that it's exceedingly difficult to gauge a person's mental status based on a singular visit. Especially with something such as immigration -- the foreigner in question may have difficulty speaking English or they have different societal and cultural norms or prepare themselves for the psychologist, thereby acting different than their normal selves.

A number of psychologist tests wouldn't be reliable either. The general and specific tests all have the same problem: They're written in English. To someone who's first language isn't English, the test may present a score that misrepresents their mental status and that could have dire consequences for them.

So... I'm not exactly sure how the U.S. would interview and test intended immigrants from other countries -- at least those from non-English speaking countries. Canada, Australia and the United Kingdom would be okay, but many other nations may have problems, depending on the speaker's English proficiency. And since the U.S. doesn't have an official language, we can't demand that all intended immigrants know English beforehand. It'd be nice, but I'm sure organizations like the ACLU would be on that situation like "white on rice."

Anyway, I don't necessarily think screening for mental problems is a bad thing. I just don't know how we'd go about doing it properly. The immigration process is such a trying red-tape affair as it is, I'd hate to see more added to it that'd make things even more difficult and confusing.

[Heracles 417]

I totally understand what you are saying. I just believe there needs to be some sort of basic screening. Be it from the doctor in their country or at the embassy.

In all fairness the immigration process should not be a walk in the park, especially for marriage visa's considering that amount of fraud that goes on..

[Heracles 417]

What gives me a knot in my throat is the thought that these where kids and probably good people who where kllled.

What makes it worse is that another kid was able to calmly carry this out, as stated by witnesses. This is really shocking. Not only to America but to the rest of the developed world..

Edited April 17, 2007 by Infidel

[Robor007 0]

Regardless of whether his country of origin has anything to do with the crime...you guys KNOW that people will make an issue of it....they'll say there's not enough mental screening of immigrants...and it will definitely affect people here and their own VJ's...I'm sure of it.

If the Adam Walsh act had such a huge impact and that relaly had NOTHING to do with immigratio n- think what this will do

I agree 100% here. There is no doubt that the media will fan the flames of the immigration issue here and the sheeple will follow along like they always do. It's easier to say it wouldn't have happened if the immigrant wasn't here instead of pointing the finger at the real causes.

[Heracles 417]

I agree 100% here. There is no doubt that the media will fan the flames of the immigration issue here and the sheeple will follow along like they always do. It's easier to say it wouldn't have happened if the immigrant wasn't here instead of pointing the finger at the real causes.

The real issue I see is what the hell is an 'immigrant' doing with a handgun. That right should be reserved for citizens.

Even background checks are useless due to the person's limited history in the US..

[DeadPoolX 9]

The real issue I see is what the hell is an 'immigrant' doing with a handgun. That right should be reserved for citizens.

Even background checks are useless due to the person's limited history in the US..

Well, perhaps he didn't go into a gun store and purchase one legally. Maybe he bought one "off the street" or some other way. If this was the case, then there was no background check and no record of him buying the gun in the first place. There are lots of ways to get a gun other than legal means, which of course, many people tend to ignore.

[Caladan 19]

Virginia's gun laws are pretty relaxed, so it's possible he didn't need to show ID. (Besides, there's no way to make a law that just says 'immigrants must show ID'; *everyone* would have to.)

There's a lot we don't know yet, but they seemed to identify him from a receipt for a gun found in his bookbag.

[Scott & Lai 12]

I agree 100% here. There is no doubt that the media will fan the flames of the immigration issue here and the sheeple will follow along like they always do. It's easier to say it wouldn't have happened if the immigrant wasn't here instead of pointing the finger at the real causes.

The real issue I see is what the hell is an 'immigrant' doing with a handgun. That right should be reserved for citizens.

Even background checks are useless due to the person's limited history in the US..

He moved to the U.S. when he was nine, I believe, and he was 23 now. That makes 14 years' history in the U.S., not precisely limited.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I was slightly (un)surprised to hear on the radio this morning that the NRA is as opposed to increasing the time necessary for registration checks to be made before you buy a gun as it is to restricting gun ownership in general. It seems to me that if you're not going to restrict the availability of guns in America, the least you should do is have adequate checks to ensure that guns don't get into the hands of unsuitable people. As it is, it seems the NRA's position is akin to 'a free handgun in your breakfast cereal'. I wonder if it's sustainable.

[Caladan 19]

I agree 100% here. There is no doubt that the media will fan the flames of the immigration issue here and the sheeple will follow along like they always do. It's easier to say it wouldn't have happened if the immigrant wasn't here instead of pointing the finger at the real causes.

The real issue I see is what the hell is an 'immigrant' doing with a handgun. That right should be reserved for citizens.

Even background checks are useless due to the person's limited history in the US..

He moved to the U.S. when he was nine, I believe, and he was 23 now. That makes 14 years' history in the U.S., not precisely limited.

Plus, what the hell kind of screening would you do on a nine-year-old immigrant that would predict he would snap in his early 20s? This might be a mental health issue, but it's so *not* an immigrant issue.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Plus, what the hell kind of screening would you do on a nine-year-old immigrant that would predict he would snap in his early 20s? This might be a mental health issue, but it's so *not* an immigrant issue.

Agreed - similarly I would suggest (and perhaps some VJers who work in that field can confirm this) that diagnosing mental health issues is not as easy as getting your blood checked for communicable diseases. Not forgetting the fact that certain people are quite good at concealing their craziness (I can think of at least 2 people in my own life who have done this), its time-consuming because the diagnosis is made almost solely on patient observation over several clincal sessions, and I for one certainly wouldn't like to have my mental health written off by a government appointed doctor with 10 minutes to "review my case". In short, I don't think it would be very useful.

That said I think you are already required to disclose if you have been diagnosed with clinical depression, alcoholism or other such condition.

[Robor007 0]

Regardless of whether his country of origin has anything to do with the crime...you guys KNOW that people will make an issue of it....they'll say there's not enough mental screening of immigrants...and it will definitely affect people here and their own VJ's...I'm sure of it.

If the Adam Walsh act had such a huge impact and that relaly had NOTHING to do with immigratio n- think what this will do

I agree 100% here. There is no doubt that the media will fan the flames of the immigration issue here and the sheeple will follow along like they always do. It's easier to say it wouldn't have happened if the immigrant wasn't here instead of pointing the finger at the real causes.

I'm listening to the Jim Rome show right now. He just took a caller from a guy who - guess what...? Pointed the finger at 'letting all these foreigners in here'.

Rome dismissed it but you know that caller and his ignorant opinion are far from alone.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Regardless of whether his country of origin has anything to do with the crime...you guys KNOW that people will make an issue of it....they'll say there's not enough mental screening of immigrants...and it will definitely affect people here and their own VJ's...I'm sure of it.

If the Adam Walsh act had such a huge impact and that relaly had NOTHING to do with immigratio n- think what this will do

I agree 100% here. There is no doubt that the media will fan the flames of the immigration issue here and the sheeple will follow along like they always do. It's easier to say it wouldn't have happened if the immigrant wasn't here instead of pointing the finger at the real causes.

I'm listening to the Jim Rome show right now. He just took a caller from a guy who - guess what...? Pointed the finger at 'letting all these foreigners in here'.

Rome dismissed it but you know that caller and his ignorant opinion are far from alone.

Nice. Immigrants already have a bad rap - because the only exposure people have to immigration is the illegal kind. Its no surprise to me that immigrant is becoming a derogatory term - I've always been somewhat offended by the term "aliens" commonly used to describe immigrants. Has a very 'us and them' ring to it...