Minneapolis Muslim Cashiers refuse to scan pork products

[Caladan 19]

I wonder how many people outraged by the Muslim cashiers support pharmacists' conscience laws, where a pharmacist can decide not to sell a woman her legally prescribed birth control pills because it conflicts with his alleged religious beliefs. If you support the latter, you pretty much have to be on board with the former.

I support neither; if you're not willing to do the job, and there's no easy or generally recognized way for the place to accomodate your beliefs (i.e., if you veil or wear a yarmulke, they shouldn't be able to fire you for a uniform violation), the company should be able to fire you. They don't *have* to, of course, and that sort of distinction is hard to parse out, but that's what courts are for.

The snark in me also wants to point out that you won't find a whole lot of kosher butchers offering pork.

On the other hand, the handwringing about how now radical Islam strikes at the HEART and it's LIBERALS' fault because now they've gone after the bacon is cracking me up. Send for the Spartans, it's time for the last stand --- not the bacon!! It's my constitutional right to eat pork and it's being undermined!!!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I wonder how many people outraged by the Muslim cashiers support pharmacists' conscience laws, where a pharmacist can decide not to sell a woman her legally prescribed birth control pills because it conflicts with his alleged religious beliefs. If you support the latter, you pretty much have to be on board with the former.

That's what makes me think that there is some 'selective outrage' going on here.

I support neither; if you're not willing to do the job, and there's no easy or generally recognized way for the place to accomodate your beliefs (i.e., if you veil or wear a yarmulke, they shouldn't be able to fire you for a uniform violation), the company should be able to fire you. They don't *have* to, of course, and that sort of distinction is hard to parse out, but that's what courts are for.

Agreed - no retail store can or should jeorpardise its own sales to cater specifically to certain employees. This shouldn't even be an issue about 'freedom of religion', the company should (and likely does) deal with this as it sees fit. It's not like "cashier" is a high retention job...

[Fandango 1,440]

I think it's the same thing. I am not really sure how I feel about the morning after pill, but if you are a pharmacist, you must be able to fulfil your job absent of your personal beliefs.

It's the same thing, and it's bullsh!t.

I wanna get a job and then say it's against my beliefs to actually DO anything.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

I support neither; if you're not willing to do the job, and there's no easy or generally recognized way for the place to accomodate your beliefs (i.e., if you veil or wear a yarmulke, they shouldn't be able to fire you for a uniform violation), the company should be able to fire you. They don't *have* to, of course, and that sort of distinction is hard to parse out, but that's what courts are for.

Agreed - no retail store can or should jeorpardise its own sales to cater specifically to certain employees. This shouldn't even be an issue about 'freedom of religion', the company should (and likely does) deal with this as it sees fit. It's not like "cashier" is a high retention job...

Indeed it looks on the way to becoming an ALMOST-NO-retention job--as I mentioned earlier (notwithstanding customers' cluelessness in operating them), many stores are going in for self-scanners.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I support neither; if you're not willing to do the job, and there's no easy or generally recognized way for the place to accomodate your beliefs (i.e., if you veil or wear a yarmulke, they shouldn't be able to fire you for a uniform violation), the company should be able to fire you. They don't *have* to, of course, and that sort of distinction is hard to parse out, but that's what courts are for.

Agreed - no retail store can or should jeorpardise its own sales to cater specifically to certain employees. This shouldn't even be an issue about 'freedom of religion', the company should (and likely does) deal with this as it sees fit. It's not like "cashier" is a high retention job...

Indeed it looks on the way to becoming an ALMOST-NO-retention job--as I mentioned earlier (notwithstanding customers' cluelessness in operating them), many stores are going in for self-scanners.

I hate those things - its bad enough that they seize up when you're using them (and the 'supervisor' is of course nowhere around to fix it), but large number of customers seem unable to operate the simplest menu screen. Or you get those idiots who pay cash from a penny jar.

[Caladan 19]

Also, re-reading the article. What a tempest in a teapot. It cost the person buying the meat maybe all of ten seconds? Still were able to purchase the pork? Seriously, the newspaper needs to find a real social problem. I can't imagine this would have popped up in the news if the cashier had been a little old Jewish man. ("Isn't it nice how seriously he takes his faith, sweetie?") This case isn't a problem for the freedom of religion, but that's because it's not really a problem at all.

And incrementalism is how America works, people. You say it in scary tones -- they're changing our culture! That's what the culture does, man, it changes. Today is St. Patrick's Day, and all over Protestant-work-ethic America, including my little former Congregationalist town, there are parades and people dressing in green and honoring the one-thirty-second bit of Irish in them and it surely hasn't lead to the fall of the American republic.

[Together4ever 1]

Also, re-reading the article. What a tempest in a teapot. It cost the person buying the meat maybe all of ten seconds? Still were able to purchase the pork? Seriously, the newspaper needs to find a real social problem. I can't imagine this would have popped up in the news if the cashier had been a little old Jewish man. ("Isn't it nice how seriously he takes his faith, sweetie?") This case isn't a problem for the freedom of religion, but that's because it's not really a problem at all.

And incrementalism is how America works, people. You say it in scary tones -- they're changing our culture! That's what the culture does, man, it changes. Today is St. Patrick's Day, and all over Protestant-work-ethic America, including my little former Congregationalist town, there are parades and people dressing in green and honoring the one-thirty-second bit of Irish in them and it surely hasn't lead to the fall of the American republic.

Very well stated. Thank you.

[peezey 0]

So if ME countries were to be accommodating of Christians everyone would change their mind on this matter?

No, that is their business how they run their country. This is America. We decide how we run things here. We are very tolerant of other cultures here. We allow anyone to live however they want. However it isn't right for the majority to give up our culture because of a minority that doesn't like it. If a Muslim wants to open a store and not sell pork or booze no one is going to go into that store and insist that they sell it.

in that "we" happen to be millions of Muslims, by the way. Real, live, American Muslims.

Thats right, you are part of the "we" I was talking about. You are free to live your life the way you want to. If you don't want to shop in a non-halal store then no one is forcing you. If you don't want to touch something you consider unclean then that is your right. But if you go to work in the check out lane of a shop-n-save then you have to expect to check out hot dogs and ham. It's your choice. But it's also my choice to buy these things if I want to without worrying about the check out person not wanting to serve me. This is America. Whether you like it or not the vast majority of people here eat pork and drink alcohol. This is what it means to live in America. It's something you have to accept and expect.

Who are you speaking to here? I'm not muslim. There's some old saying about assuming.....

And if eating pork and drinking alcohol is what it "means" to you to live in America, I'm embarrassed for you.

[peezey 0]

Gary - you support the free market right? What makes you think that this won't "work itself out" like the healthcare system?

What left field did that come from?

Ok, I will explain this so even you will understand. If the government stays out of it then yes it will work itself out. The Muslims will start their own stores to cater to the ones that want to buy halal foods. Then we get what we want and they get what they want. The free market wins. But if the government sticks it's nose into things we will end up with halal and non-halal lanes at the supermarket.

It has already shown that it works. Ever seen a Kosher store? The Jewish people started them to fill a need without imposing their customs onto us. That is what the Muslims should do. Thats the free market in action. Understand?

You don't get out much, do you? There are no kosher stores where I live but there is half an aisle of kosher goods at every large grocery store in CA. I'm quite certain this is the same for most chain stores in the US. Does this impose on you? I hardly think so since you didn't even know it exists!

[doodlebug 3]

from wendys website:

Barbecue Nuggets Sauce

High Fructose Corn Syrup, Tomato Paste, Water, Distilled Vinegar, Molasses, Salt, Modified Food Starch, Torula Yeast, Natural Smoke Flavor, Spices, Onion, Sodium Benzoate (preservative), Garlic Powder.

it might not be healthy for you, but is any of this haram?

seriously, im asking... i dont know

alcohol is haram, so my guess would be the vinegar. Like I said in my previous post though, the chicken nuggets from Wendy's are probably haram too so it was kind of a mute point by the guy.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Also, re-reading the article. What a tempest in a teapot. It cost the person buying the meat maybe all of ten seconds? Still were able to purchase the pork? Seriously, the newspaper needs to find a real social problem. I can't imagine this would have popped up in the news if the cashier had been a little old Jewish man. ("Isn't it nice how seriously he takes his faith, sweetie?") This case isn't a problem for the freedom of religion, but that's because it's not really a problem at all.

And incrementalism is how America works, people. You say it in scary tones -- they're changing our culture! That's what the culture does, man, it changes. Today is St. Patrick's Day, and all over Protestant-work-ethic America, including my little former Congregationalist town, there are parades and people dressing in green and honoring the one-thirty-second bit of Irish in them and it surely hasn't lead to the fall of the American republic.

Incrementalism is fine as long as there is a benefit (or doesn't hurt) to society. When you have incrementalism that involves a religion that tramples woman's rights that's a bad thing IMHO.

No one is forcing them to work there. They are 'at-will' employees.

[peezey 0]

I don't care if the ones making the stink are Muslim, Jewish or Druids. If the area you live in has a settled way of doing things and a minority is insisting that the majority change to accommodate them then it's wrong. I again point to the stink about religious displays at holidays. 90% of the people have no problem with them but because of the 10% my kids can't sing "Silent Night" at the school Christmas play. How is that fair? That kind of discrimination I have experienced. And I see this as the beginning of a new set of discriminations. Sounding off about it now may fend it off.

"A settled way of doing things"? Do you live in some Pleasantville that hasn't changed, ever? I don't know anyone who does, not even the smallest town far removed from cities. Or is it just certain things you think should remain settled? This, I'd guess, is more the answer for you. Since your arguments are baseless and don't match historical evidence of change in this country.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Incrementalism is fine as long as there is a benefit (or doesn't hurt) to society. When you have incrementalism that involves a religion that tramples woman's rights that's a bad thing IMHO.

No one is forcing them to work there. They are 'at-will' employees.

Its a far cry from refusing to handle certain products at a supermarket (resulting in no noticeable delay to the customer) and trampling women's rights. It's the "at will" part of the contract (much as I don't agree with the "at will" clause) that will probably sort this out. They're not refusing service point blank like those Somali tax-drivers..

[peezey 0]

I wonder how many people outraged by the Muslim cashiers support pharmacists' conscience laws, where a pharmacist can decide not to sell a woman her legally prescribed birth control pills because it conflicts with his alleged religious beliefs. If you support the latter, you pretty much have to be on board with the former.

That's what makes me think that there is some 'selective outrage' going on here.

I support neither; if you're not willing to do the job, and there's no easy or generally recognized way for the place to accomodate your beliefs (i.e., if you veil or wear a yarmulke, they shouldn't be able to fire you for a uniform violation), the company should be able to fire you. They don't *have* to, of course, and that sort of distinction is hard to parse out, but that's what courts are for.

Agreed - no retail store can or should jeorpardise its own sales to cater specifically to certain employees. This shouldn't even be an issue about 'freedom of religion', the company should (and likely does) deal with this as it sees fit. It's not like "cashier" is a high retention job...

This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. First, the woman was acting ridiculously. However, it happened, and she didn't get fired and the store wants to accommodate her. Why is this news? I've worked in customer service. You know how many cashiers see people they don't want to serve based on how they look just leave their stations and get the manager to check the customer out? ####### like this happens all the time and it doesn't make the news.

This is most certainly selective outrage, no matter how many times people use the term "druid" thinking that means something.

[Caladan 19]

Also, re-reading the article. What a tempest in a teapot. It cost the person buying the meat maybe all of ten seconds? Still were able to purchase the pork? Seriously, the newspaper needs to find a real social problem. I can't imagine this would have popped up in the news if the cashier had been a little old Jewish man. ("Isn't it nice how seriously he takes his faith, sweetie?") This case isn't a problem for the freedom of religion, but that's because it's not really a problem at all.

And incrementalism is how America works, people. You say it in scary tones -- they're changing our culture! That's what the culture does, man, it changes. Today is St. Patrick's Day, and all over Protestant-work-ethic America, including my little former Congregationalist town, there are parades and people dressing in green and honoring the one-thirty-second bit of Irish in them and it surely hasn't lead to the fall of the American republic.

Incrementalism is fine as long as there is a benefit (or doesn't hurt) to society. When you have incrementalism that involves a religion that tramples woman's rights that's a bad thing IMHO.

No one is forcing them to work there. They are 'at-will' employees.

Nope, and no one on this entire thread has said that the store couldn't fire them for not performing their duty. I think the store can fire them; I also think this is really not a big deal, given that I've had longer delays because the cashier can't tell an eggplant from an artichoke.

(More incrementalism fun: the McDonald's Filet-O-Fish sandwich. It was invented to attract the Catholic market - not eating meat on Fridays. It's an attack on the American institution -- the hamburger!)

I guess all I'm sayihg if the biggest thing I have to worry about with regard to importing a new culture is that some of them don't like handling pork, but obey the laws, are respectful citizens, and the like, I'm not too worried. And I'd rather society not be ninnies and run newspaper articles about the horror of middle America needing to wait 10 seconds at the cashier's, because I can't think of a better way to foster resentment in a small immigrant community than by people freaking out.

In terms of trampling women's rights, I'm far more worried about the American rightwing, which actually has power and influence, than I am a small Muslim minority.