Calif. lawmaker seeks ban on spanking

[one...two...tree 2,762]

ah yes, the wonderful little woman who has no kids will do her best to educate those with kids. that's like a 6 year old telling an adult how to drive......

i can speak from personal experience. had my parents been lax, i'd have been way out of control. as it was, the threat of my dad's belt kept me in line for a long time.

Of course, the 'if I had been treated differently I would have' syndrome. You may well have been afraid of the belt, but how can you possibly say that other forms of discipline would't have worked had they been tried?

discount it if you wish, i gives a

i know me and nothing else would have worked

Like you said, Chuckie, each parent has their own way of raising their kids. I prefer to learn all I can about parenting and apply that knowledge.

knock yourself out then. and good luck

I already have, Charles and I'm proud of my kid's social behavior. We were always complimented on how well behaved our kids were. I was no saint - I spanked them and sometimes did it out of anger and I was really good/bad at putting the fear of God in them (I learned that from my dad), but in spite of my parental mistakes I honestly believe it was how I role modelled to them that shaped how they behave socially.

or maybe that message sank in at an early age

What message was that? That they should fear and loathe me? Again, it's about role models. I believe children are resilient and tend to grow up as functional adults in spite of our parental mistakes. If you don't believe your Dad or Mom ever went overboard with disciplining you, then you, then that explains why you have such a romantic ideal of your parents and their style of punishment. I realized as I grew up that my parents weren't perfect and not everything they did was right, like smacking me in the face which is why I don't do that to my kids. That to me is the natural process of maturity.

that they should behave and do what they are told, steven. i know my parents went overboard sometimes and i got spanked for something i didn't do (thanks to my sister pinning it on me) and there were times i probably didn't get spanked enough. it all evened out. i'm not carrying some major grudge about it and i am very close to my dad still.

I'm close to my parents as well and I can tell you they both regret some of the things they did to us kids. Like I said, I think children will turn out alright in spite of their parent's mistakes. However, I think it's presumptious to conclude that because you turned out okay, that the times your parents went overboard was not only okay, but actually helped. That's what I call poisonous pedagogy. You've taken a simplistic approach to cause and effet and idealized it as the way children need to be punished.

It's no secret that Hitler's father was very harsh with him and Adolph idolized (psychosis) his father.

I want my kids to respect me as a decent human being, but I don't want them to idolize me. I also don't want them to blindly follow authority. Authority needs to be questioned and challenged. When they are small, of course they have to rely heavily on their parents for their safety and security, but the natural process of growing up is independence, not an obedience to authority.

Edited January 22, 2007 by Steven_and_Jinky

[Ban Hammer 14,283]

I'm close to my parents as well and I can tell you they both regret some of the things they did to us kids. Like I said, I think children will turn out alright in spite of their parent's mistakes. However, I think it's presumptious to conclude that because you turned out okay, that the times your parents went overboard was not only okay, but actually helped. That's what I call poisonous pedagogy. You've taken a simplistic approach to cause and effet and idealized it as the way children need to be punished.

It's no secret that Hitler's father was very harsh with him and Adolph idolized (psychosis) his father.

I want my kids to respect me as a decent human being, but I don't want them to idolize me. I also don't want them to blindly follow authority. Authority needs to be questioned and challenged. When they are small, of course they have to rely heavily on their parents for their safety and security, but the natural process of growing up is independence, not an obedience to authority.

to say that it's presumptous to conclude that i turned out ok is also presumptous, is it not? perhaps it's due to our backgrounds that we differ on this, and that's fine. i don't consider it to be simplistic in that misbehaving warrants punishment, even if corporal punishment. i didn't say that for every infraction the kid should be spanked, but i do reserve the right to do such when i deem necessary. i'm not running a democracy nor running for election as a parent with my kid.

i follow my dad's idea on raising kids. i'm the parent first and friend after. not the other way around. it sounds like you are a friend first and parent later. that could backfire down the road, but that's your business. i don't agree that authority needs to be questioned and challenged. if you feel that way, perhaps i'll see you on "cops" someday.

Edited January 22, 2007 by charlesandnessa

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm close to my parents as well and I can tell you they both regret some of the things they did to us kids. Like I said, I think children will turn out alright in spite of their parent's mistakes. However, I think it's presumptious to conclude that because you turned out okay, that the times your parents went overboard was not only okay, but actually helped. That's what I call poisonous pedagogy. You've taken a simplistic approach to cause and effet and idealized it as the way children need to be punished.

It's no secret that Hitler's father was very harsh with him and Adolph idolized (psychosis) his father.

I want my kids to respect me as a decent human being, but I don't want them to idolize me. I also don't want them to blindly follow authority. Authority needs to be questioned and challenged. When they are small, of course they have to rely heavily on their parents for their safety and security, but the natural process of growing up is independence, not an obedience to authority.

to say that it's presumptous to conclude that i turned out ok is also presumptous, is it not? perhaps it's due to our backgrounds that we differ on this, and that's fine. i don't consider it to be simplistic in that misbehaving warrants punishment, even if corporal punishment. i didn't say that for every infraction the kid should be spanked, but i do reserve the right to do such when i deem necessary. i'm not running a democracy nor running for election as a parent with my kid.

i follow my dad's idea on raising kids. i'm the parent first and friend after. not the other way around. it sounds like you are a friend first and parent later. that could backfire down the road, but that's your business. i don't agree that authority needs to be questioned and challenged. if you feel that way, perhaps i'll see you on "cops" someday.

Not at all. In fact, I think it's bad to try to be a friend first to your child - they aren't your emotional, physical, or intellectual equal - to ignore that reality is doing a disservice to your child. I also believe that in certain circumstances, spanking is appropriate - but it has it's limits and it is debatable as to how effective it is on a child after they reach a certain age. Perhaps you were exaggerating when you boasted the idea of giving a good azz whooping, but any satisfaction a parent gets out of physically punishing their kids is flat out wrong - it's retaliation. That's where we see it differently. You think punishment is some kind of payment system - you wronged me and now I get to wrong you. I believe the primary purpose of punishment is to teach children there are negative consequences when they do something wrong, not as an act of vengence.

[Ban Hammer 14,283]

I'm close to my parents as well and I can tell you they both regret some of the things they did to us kids. Like I said, I think children will turn out alright in spite of their parent's mistakes. However, I think it's presumptious to conclude that because you turned out okay, that the times your parents went overboard was not only okay, but actually helped. That's what I call poisonous pedagogy. You've taken a simplistic approach to cause and effet and idealized it as the way children need to be punished.

It's no secret that Hitler's father was very harsh with him and Adolph idolized (psychosis) his father.

I want my kids to respect me as a decent human being, but I don't want them to idolize me. I also don't want them to blindly follow authority. Authority needs to be questioned and challenged. When they are small, of course they have to rely heavily on their parents for their safety and security, but the natural process of growing up is independence, not an obedience to authority.

to say that it's presumptous to conclude that i turned out ok is also presumptous, is it not? perhaps it's due to our backgrounds that we differ on this, and that's fine. i don't consider it to be simplistic in that misbehaving warrants punishment, even if corporal punishment. i didn't say that for every infraction the kid should be spanked, but i do reserve the right to do such when i deem necessary. i'm not running a democracy nor running for election as a parent with my kid.

i follow my dad's idea on raising kids. i'm the parent first and friend after. not the other way around. it sounds like you are a friend first and parent later. that could backfire down the road, but that's your business. i don't agree that authority needs to be questioned and challenged. if you feel that way, perhaps i'll see you on "cops" someday.

Not at all. In fact, I think it's bad to try to be a friend first to your child - they aren't your emotional, physical, or intellectual equal - to ignore that reality is doing a disservice to your child. I also believe that in certain circumstances, spanking is appropriate - but it has it's limits and it is debatable as to how effective it is on a child after they reach a certain age. Perhaps you were exaggerating when you boasted the idea of giving a good azz whooping, but any satisfaction a parent gets out of physically punishing their kids is flat out wrong - it's retaliation. That's where we see it differently. You think punishment is some kind of payment system - you wronged me and now I get to wrong you. I believe the primary purpose of punishment is to teach children there are negative consequences when they do something wrong, not as an act of vengence.

that's all your choice of interpretation, steven. maybe that's where you made your mistake

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm close to my parents as well and I can tell you they both regret some of the things they did to us kids. Like I said, I think children will turn out alright in spite of their parent's mistakes. However, I think it's presumptious to conclude that because you turned out okay, that the times your parents went overboard was not only okay, but actually helped. That's what I call poisonous pedagogy. You've taken a simplistic approach to cause and effet and idealized it as the way children need to be punished.

It's no secret that Hitler's father was very harsh with him and Adolph idolized (psychosis) his father.

I want my kids to respect me as a decent human being, but I don't want them to idolize me. I also don't want them to blindly follow authority. Authority needs to be questioned and challenged. When they are small, of course they have to rely heavily on their parents for their safety and security, but the natural process of growing up is independence, not an obedience to authority.

to say that it's presumptous to conclude that i turned out ok is also presumptous, is it not? perhaps it's due to our backgrounds that we differ on this, and that's fine. i don't consider it to be simplistic in that misbehaving warrants punishment, even if corporal punishment. i didn't say that for every infraction the kid should be spanked, but i do reserve the right to do such when i deem necessary. i'm not running a democracy nor running for election as a parent with my kid.

i follow my dad's idea on raising kids. i'm the parent first and friend after. not the other way around. it sounds like you are a friend first and parent later. that could backfire down the road, but that's your business. i don't agree that authority needs to be questioned and challenged. if you feel that way, perhaps i'll see you on "cops" someday.

Not at all. In fact, I think it's bad to try to be a friend first to your child - they aren't your emotional, physical, or intellectual equal - to ignore that reality is doing a disservice to your child. I also believe that in certain circumstances, spanking is appropriate - but it has it's limits and it is debatable as to how effective it is on a child after they reach a certain age. Perhaps you were exaggerating when you boasted the idea of giving a good azz whooping, but any satisfaction a parent gets out of physically punishing their kids is flat out wrong - it's retaliation. That's where we see it differently. You think punishment is some kind of payment system - you wronged me and now I get to wrong you. I believe the primary purpose of punishment is to teach children there are negative consequences when they do something wrong, not as an act of vengence.

that's all your choice of interpretation, steven. maybe that's where you made your mistake

But when it comes to Nessa, are you the sadist or the masochist?

[Ban Hammer 14,283]

I'm close to my parents as well and I can tell you they both regret some of the things they did to us kids. Like I said, I think children will turn out alright in spite of their parent's mistakes. However, I think it's presumptious to conclude that because you turned out okay, that the times your parents went overboard was not only okay, but actually helped. That's what I call poisonous pedagogy. You've taken a simplistic approach to cause and effet and idealized it as the way children need to be punished.

It's no secret that Hitler's father was very harsh with him and Adolph idolized (psychosis) his father.

I want my kids to respect me as a decent human being, but I don't want them to idolize me. I also don't want them to blindly follow authority. Authority needs to be questioned and challenged. When they are small, of course they have to rely heavily on their parents for their safety and security, but the natural process of growing up is independence, not an obedience to authority.

to say that it's presumptous to conclude that i turned out ok is also presumptous, is it not? perhaps it's due to our backgrounds that we differ on this, and that's fine. i don't consider it to be simplistic in that misbehaving warrants punishment, even if corporal punishment. i didn't say that for every infraction the kid should be spanked, but i do reserve the right to do such when i deem necessary. i'm not running a democracy nor running for election as a parent with my kid.

i follow my dad's idea on raising kids. i'm the parent first and friend after. not the other way around. it sounds like you are a friend first and parent later. that could backfire down the road, but that's your business. i don't agree that authority needs to be questioned and challenged. if you feel that way, perhaps i'll see you on "cops" someday.

Not at all. In fact, I think it's bad to try to be a friend first to your child - they aren't your emotional, physical, or intellectual equal - to ignore that reality is doing a disservice to your child. I also believe that in certain circumstances, spanking is appropriate - but it has it's limits and it is debatable as to how effective it is on a child after they reach a certain age. Perhaps you were exaggerating when you boasted the idea of giving a good azz whooping, but any satisfaction a parent gets out of physically punishing their kids is flat out wrong - it's retaliation. That's where we see it differently. You think punishment is some kind of payment system - you wronged me and now I get to wrong you. I believe the primary purpose of punishment is to teach children there are negative consequences when they do something wrong, not as an act of vengence.

that's all your choice of interpretation, steven. maybe that's where you made your mistake

But when it comes to Nessa, are you the sadist or the masochist?

more presumption, steven?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm close to my parents as well and I can tell you they both regret some of the things they did to us kids. Like I said, I think children will turn out alright in spite of their parent's mistakes. However, I think it's presumptious to conclude that because you turned out okay, that the times your parents went overboard was not only okay, but actually helped. That's what I call poisonous pedagogy. You've taken a simplistic approach to cause and effet and idealized it as the way children need to be punished.

It's no secret that Hitler's father was very harsh with him and Adolph idolized (psychosis) his father.

I want my kids to respect me as a decent human being, but I don't want them to idolize me. I also don't want them to blindly follow authority. Authority needs to be questioned and challenged. When they are small, of course they have to rely heavily on their parents for their safety and security, but the natural process of growing up is independence, not an obedience to authority.

to say that it's presumptous to conclude that i turned out ok is also presumptous, is it not? perhaps it's due to our backgrounds that we differ on this, and that's fine. i don't consider it to be simplistic in that misbehaving warrants punishment, even if corporal punishment. i didn't say that for every infraction the kid should be spanked, but i do reserve the right to do such when i deem necessary. i'm not running a democracy nor running for election as a parent with my kid.

i follow my dad's idea on raising kids. i'm the parent first and friend after. not the other way around. it sounds like you are a friend first and parent later. that could backfire down the road, but that's your business. i don't agree that authority needs to be questioned and challenged. if you feel that way, perhaps i'll see you on "cops" someday.

Not at all. In fact, I think it's bad to try to be a friend first to your child - they aren't your emotional, physical, or intellectual equal - to ignore that reality is doing a disservice to your child. I also believe that in certain circumstances, spanking is appropriate - but it has it's limits and it is debatable as to how effective it is on a child after they reach a certain age. Perhaps you were exaggerating when you boasted the idea of giving a good azz whooping, but any satisfaction a parent gets out of physically punishing their kids is flat out wrong - it's retaliation. That's where we see it differently. You think punishment is some kind of payment system - you wronged me and now I get to wrong you. I believe the primary purpose of punishment is to teach children there are negative consequences when they do something wrong, not as an act of vengence.

that's all your choice of interpretation, steven. maybe that's where you made your mistake

But when it comes to Nessa, are you the sadist or the masochist?

more presumption, steven?

I'm teasing, Charles. But seriously...are you the spanker or the receiver?

[Ban Hammer 14,283]

I'm close to my parents as well and I can tell you they both regret some of the things they did to us kids. Like I said, I think children will turn out alright in spite of their parent's mistakes. However, I think it's presumptious to conclude that because you turned out okay, that the times your parents went overboard was not only okay, but actually helped. That's what I call poisonous pedagogy. You've taken a simplistic approach to cause and effet and idealized it as the way children need to be punished.

It's no secret that Hitler's father was very harsh with him and Adolph idolized (psychosis) his father.

I want my kids to respect me as a decent human being, but I don't want them to idolize me. I also don't want them to blindly follow authority. Authority needs to be questioned and challenged. When they are small, of course they have to rely heavily on their parents for their safety and security, but the natural process of growing up is independence, not an obedience to authority.

to say that it's presumptous to conclude that i turned out ok is also presumptous, is it not? perhaps it's due to our backgrounds that we differ on this, and that's fine. i don't consider it to be simplistic in that misbehaving warrants punishment, even if corporal punishment. i didn't say that for every infraction the kid should be spanked, but i do reserve the right to do such when i deem necessary. i'm not running a democracy nor running for election as a parent with my kid.

i follow my dad's idea on raising kids. i'm the parent first and friend after. not the other way around. it sounds like you are a friend first and parent later. that could backfire down the road, but that's your business. i don't agree that authority needs to be questioned and challenged. if you feel that way, perhaps i'll see you on "cops" someday.

Not at all. In fact, I think it's bad to try to be a friend first to your child - they aren't your emotional, physical, or intellectual equal - to ignore that reality is doing a disservice to your child. I also believe that in certain circumstances, spanking is appropriate - but it has it's limits and it is debatable as to how effective it is on a child after they reach a certain age. Perhaps you were exaggerating when you boasted the idea of giving a good azz whooping, but any satisfaction a parent gets out of physically punishing their kids is flat out wrong - it's retaliation. That's where we see it differently. You think punishment is some kind of payment system - you wronged me and now I get to wrong you. I believe the primary purpose of punishment is to teach children there are negative consequences when they do something wrong, not as an act of vengence.

that's all your choice of interpretation, steven. maybe that's where you made your mistake

But when it comes to Nessa, are you the sadist or the masochist?

more presumption, steven?

I'm teasing, Charles. But seriously...are you the spanker or the receiver?

you're still presuming such occurs

[Heracles 417]

I think a lot of parents are the one's who need the spanking. Kids are usually a product of their up bringing.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Hard to see how any legislation of that kind would be enforceable in a practical way - What will happen is that you'll get a lot of people informing on each other (kids informing on their parents) and the courts time wasted with cases based on hear-say.

Can't see it doing much to stop the real abusers from abusing their children - and lets face it, most of they stuff they do is illegal anyway).

IMO there's nothing wrong with smacking so long as the parent doesn't rely on it, to the exclusion of any other form of discipline. I think a lot of parents are lazy, in the sense that they rely on physical force to avoid the admittedly more challenging task of engaging with their kids. Consequently, I'm suspicious of people whose first instinct is that problems can be resolved with their fists.

While I would never say I was abused by my parents, looking back I'm certainly aware that I was the focus of a lot of the frustrations resulting from my mother's mental illness and my parents deteriorating (and poisonous) marriage. The effect of that, and my dad's attempt at authoritarian discipline I believe did more harm than good. I never felt comfortable to talk to him, and certainly not with my mother (due to the aforementioned mental illness). I'm still in contact with them today, but the relationship certainly isn't a close one, nor can I see it ever becoming so. I find myself at the age of 28, not knowing a whole lot about my parents - and mores the pity, not having much of a desire to find out.

[eric&gen 0]

I guess spanking the monkey will also soon be baned.

Edited January 23, 2007 by eric&gen

[Lizzy 0]

I wonder if Schwarzenegger's kids, after punishment, ever turned around, looked at him and said....

"I'll be bahck".....

LOL!! This made me giggle...