Legal Gun Owners Can Deter Crime, Says Detroit Police Chief

[JohnR! 5,495]

I am glad to see the cars vs guns argument again. It had been awhile.

Cars are the red herring of choice in the gun debate, when all other arguments fail.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Because both cause a large amount of deaths. Just think... if we were all Amish, there would be VERY FEW carriage deaths, and no gun deaths by homicide (still have gun suicides to contend with though).

Cars are for driving. Guns are for hunting and shooting targets. It's not the cars' nor the guns' fault that they are used wrongly by the human in control.

But, the key difference is, do cars cause death on purpose? I mean, if you're going to use that as an argument, when was the last time someone used a car to mow down folks in a killing spree? Does it happen? On occasion. Like the affluenza kid, that was a DUI nightmare, but I don't think he woke up that morning and said, let me go and kill 4 people in my car.

We live in a society that idolizes guns, to the point that it's considered cool to go out in a blaze of glory. A car is easier to get, yet why don't more people use them to commit mass homicides?

[JohnR! 5,495]

But, the key difference is, do cars cause death on purpose? I mean, if you're going to use that as an argument, when was the last time someone used a car to mow down folks in a killing spree? Does it happen? On occasion. Like the affluenza kid, that was a DUI nightmare, but I don't think he woke up that morning and said, let me go and kill 4 people in my car.

We live in a society that idolizes guns, to the point that it's considered cool to go out in a blaze of glory. A car is easier to get, yet why don't more people use them to commit mass homicides?

Introducing cars in the debate is just a red herring. It is nothing but a diversion because in reality you can discuss the gun issue in America within its own context, without resorting to sophomoric comparisons. It is no different than the argument many children make when attempting to compare themselves with their parents.

If I were looking for a red herring I would go with cigarettes. They kill much more than guns and are far more readily available than cars.

Perhaps the other poster was referring to the infamous auto killing spree from years ago....

Edited January 6, 2014 by Gegel

[Penny Lane 8,159]

So cars have been covered. It's just a matter of time before people start talking about knives and baseball bats. Or hands and feet!

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Introducing cars in the debate is just a red herring. It is nothing but a diversion because in reality you can discuss the gun issue in America within its own context, without resorting to sophomoric comparisons. It is no different than the argument many children make when attempting to compare themselves with their parents.

If I were looking for a red herring I would go with cigarettes. They kill much more than guns and are far more readily available than cars.

I was thinking the same thing about cigarettes, but you can't use them in a killing spree.

What most folks don't want to talk about is the sheer thrill of using a gun to kill people. Personally, I'm more scared of the folks here who dream of pulling a gun on someone on a whim.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Introducing cars in the debate is just a red herring. It is nothing but a diversion because in reality you can discuss the gun issue in America within its own context, without resorting to sophomoric comparisons. It is no different than the argument many children make when attempting to compare themselves with their parents.

If I were looking for a red herring I would go with cigarettes. They kill much more than guns and are far more readily available than cars.

Perhaps the other poster was referring to the infamous auto killing spree from years ago....

Show me

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

But, the key difference is, do cars cause death on purpose?

Nope. And neither do guns. It's the lunatic within that does the bad deed.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Nope. And neither do guns. It's the lunatic within that does the bad deed.

The difference between guns and cars is that people don't jump in their car to kill a bunch of people on purpose. They grab their gun.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Nope. And neither do guns. It's the lunatic within that does the bad deed.

A car's main purpose is transportation. If some random dude on the street walks up and pulls out some car keys in a crowded area, chances are, nothing will happen. A gun's main purpose is to shoot. Take the same scenario and see what happens if a guy walks into a crowded area and pulls out an AR-15. What do you think the reaction will be?

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Why defend that?

Why argue either way? It's simply a statistic that no one here can do anything about except argue. Which is pretty much the reason CEHST exists.

The US is in the middle of the pack for gun homicides per capita for the whole world. What do you your posts here hope to accomplish? Neither you nor I can lower that rate at all, all we can do is raise it. But neither of us have. I'd say we are doing what we can to keep the numbers as low as they are.

How many guns do you own?

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

We're talking about two different things here. Instead of arguing with you, let me try this a different way:

Start with a police force that gives a damn. You know, one that actually patrols the neighborhood and stops crime. I've been to ESL more than once and I swear it's the same dude I've seen every time I drive through there. You'd think it's just him in the entire city. This is why crime there is off the chart. One of my sailors was robbed there at gunpoint. I took him to the police station there, that one cop was there and tried to take his report. His attitude was so bad, we didn't even finish the paperwork, I had to drag him out of there before we both got locked up.

Get the street crews back so they can clean up the mess. We've been hit with one of the worse snow storms in the last 30 years. Yet, you can always tell what neighborhoods get the service. In the "decent" part of town, the road crews are out there 24/7 clearing the streets. If you live in an "urban" area, not a chance. My aunt stays close to downtown STL, I took her home from our family dinner before Christmas. My wife asked why some streets were clear and others look like #######, even though they're only a block in between. My aunt looked at me and said, why don't you explain it to her?

There is more to it that Gov programs. The poison that plagues any poor community is rooted so deeply, it takes more than an idea and some tough talk to get through it.

I see the crime problem in ESL is the fault of the police.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I see the crime problem in ESL is the fault of the police.

It's a factor of things, lack of police force is one of them.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

A car's main purpose is transportation. If some random dude on the street walks up and pulls out some car keys in a crowded area, chances are, nothing will happen. A gun's main purpose is to shoot. Take the same scenario and see what happens if a guy walks into a crowded area and pulls out an AR-15. What do you think the reaction will be?

Reaction doesn't matter at all to the topic at hand, but I'd imagine folks would watch closely, take cover, or prepare to pull their own.

Since you seem to think gun ownership is what is causing the problem, what's your preferred COA?

Edited January 6, 2014 by DavenRoxy

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Trouble is, your "strong" argument against guns because of the 30K+ deaths is MOSTLY suicide.

Total gun deaths vs. total vehicular deaths. Homicides, suicides and accidents on both sides of the equation. That is a fair comparison. But if we wanted to look at just parts of the stats, then let's do that. Say we look at homicides only. What would guess be? Are more homicides committed with a firearm or with a vehicle? Right, homicides committed with a firearm far outnumber homicides committed with a vehicle. Not surprising, really.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Why argue either way? It's simply a statistic that no one here can do anything about except argue. Which is pretty much the reason CEHST exists.

The US is in the middle of the pack for gun homicides per capita for the whole world. What do you your posts here hope to accomplish? Neither you nor I can lower that rate at all, all we can do is raise it. But neither of us have. I'd say we are doing what we can to keep the numbers as low as they are.

How many guns do you own?

We could as a whole, stop with our love affair with guns. It's easier to get a gun than it is to get a driver's license. Why do we have to have car insurance, have our medicine regulated, yet if you talk about gun registration, it's a problem?