Bush compares Bin Laden to Hitler

[Veiled Princess 1]

Funny how Satan looks kinda like a monkey, really...

True dat!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

i really dont know what bush is doing

You're not alone. He doesn't either.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

The existence of the treaty wasn't the reason for the war, in fact the purpose of treaties is to lend legitimacy to a country's dealings with one another. So while the breaking of the treaty prompted military action, its existence was really irrelevant - except to say that without treaties people would be running around doing whatever they want. Depends on the treaty of course - you might cite the Versailles treaty as a significant trigger for WW2, but it was far from the sole cause and took the nazi's rise to power in the preceding decades (itself the result of increasing nationalism and resentment at the allies treatment of germany post WW1) which effectively bankrupted the country and caused, among other things, widespread unemployment.

disagreement:

- The existence of the treaty wasn't the reason for the war....

- So while the breaking of the treaty prompted military action....

maybe it's just me but i see a conflict there. granted the start of it was between just a few countries, but the treaties in force at the time drug other countries into the conflict. the statement of "without treaties people would be running around doing whatever they want" i believe did just the opposite - i think the treaties emboldened them to do just that.

agreement:

yes, one could argue that the "dictat" of versailles was a trigger, as it bred resentment amongst the germans. and yes the nazi party capitalized on that and other issues to get in power (omg, i'm agreeing with you about something, mark that on your calendar).

All of the countries involved in the war did join the war because of treaties. That is true. What is also true is that the treaties forged awkward alliances, but that's why they were in existence in the first place. The treaties were more a convenient excuse for all parties that the actual cause.

The treaties themselves, however, were forged to guarantee stability on a continent historically unstable, an instablility that had become even more volatile after the Vienna Congress mandated a system of nation-states which many countries saw as a threat to their sovereignty. Hence, the nineteenth century is a long progression of wars between European nations vieing for territorial control over slabs of land. In order to end the wars, the German chancellor Bismarck had constructed a network of alliances, which while still in place in 1914 had been significantly undermined by later politicians, thus turning the network into a war-trap.

In a way, WWI is the logical outcome of the nineteenth century and its heightened sensibilities for nationalisms. Every nation involved in the war regarded it, particularly at the beginning, not only as a matter of honor, but also as a war for their brand of civilization. That's why most of the urban populations in Europe were all for the war, regardless of nationality. By the time Germany invaded Belgium, the dice had already been cast. Every nation had mobilized its troops, and war had been declared before this point in time. In a way, it was more the mobilization of armies and deployment timetables that led to declarations of war. By the time Germany declared war on France, they had alreay declared war on Russia because of the mobilization of the Russian army which followed in the wake of Austria declaring war on Serbia. In a way, once this processed had started there was no way to end it.

For a much more detailed account of the causes of and reasons for the war, have a look at Niall Ferguson's "The Pity of War."

One last word on the Versailles Treaty, part of the problem from the German perspective was the issue of being faulted for the war and having to shoulder the blame not only by admitting it but by also being bound to reparations for more than half a century. This had an enormous impact on the radicalization and polarization of German society in the 1920s because it increased social pressures which were already pretty high due to the impact of the war on the global economy. One could speculate that had it not been for the stock market crash and the global depression following in its wake that the Nazis could have never gained power. So, the Versailles Treaty is not just another treaty causing war but it shows how closely politics and economics are intertwined.

[mmmbop1976 1]

here we go again.......

the only comparison that was being made is that lenin, hitler, and obl are all evil men that openly espoused their beliefs. it has nothing to do with whether they have similar ideaologies or similar goals. you bush bashers should stop being so cerebral in trying to promote your indefensible argument.

hitler invaded poland to take over a country, we invaded iraq and liberated a country.

jews were more than mistreated in germany, they were murdered, gased, put in concentration camps at the order of hitler. muslims in the usa do not face this. are they victims of hate crime? sure, but these are done by a few hateful idiots. bush has never advocated anything other than tolerance and respect for any persons peaceful religious belief.

you do not do your political cause any good trying to compare bush to hitler. but i guess it makes you feel better.

i

Funny how Satan looks kinda like a monkey, really...

True dat!

i was raised by a family of liberal democrats. when i would ask why we belonged to that party i was always told because the democratic party was the kind and compassionate party....didn't take me long to figure out......not so much

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

...

Edited September 7, 2006 by ET-US2004

[Marc and Olga 0]

here we go again.......

the only comparison that was being made is that lenin, hitler, and obl are all evil men that openly espoused their beliefs. it has nothing to do with whether they have similar ideaologies or similar goals. you bush bashers should stop being so cerebral in trying to promote your indefensible argument.

hitler invaded poland to take over a country, we invaded iraq and liberated a country.

jews were more than mistreated in germany, they were murdered, gased, put in concentration camps at the order of hitler. muslims in the usa do not face this. are they victims of hate crime? sure, but these are done by a few hateful idiots. bush has never advocated anything other than tolerance and respect for any persons peaceful religious belief.

you do not do your political cause any good trying to compare bush to hitler. but i guess it makes you feel better.

i

Funny how Satan looks kinda like a monkey, really...

True dat!

i was raised by a family of liberal democrats. when i would ask why we belonged to that party i was always told because the democratic party was the kind and compassionate party....didn't take me long to figure out......not so much

while not on the scale of hitler but...(to quote Steven)

* At least 45 detainees died in U.S. custody due to suspected or confirmed criminal homicides.[1] At least eight people were tortured to death. At least 98 detainees have died while in U.S. custody in Iraq or Afghanistan;[2]

* At least 69 of the detainees died at locations other than Abu Ghraib;[3]

* At least 51 detainees have died in U.S. custody since Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld was informed of the abuses at Abu Ghraib on January 16, 2004;[4]

* 12 deaths have led to punishments of U.S. personnel;[5]

* 0 CIA personnel have been charged with wrongdoing in connection with alleged involvement in at least 5 deaths;[6]

* As of November 2005, over 83,000 people have been held in U.S. custody, and about 30,000 of those were entered “into the system,” and assigned internment serial numbers in Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, and Afghanistan;[7]

* There have been nearly 600 criminal investigations into allegations of detainee abuse; each investigation tends to include more than one U.S. soldier, more than one instance of abuse, and more than one victim. Allegations against 250 Soldiers have been addressed in courts-martial, non-judicial punishments, and other adverse administrative punishments. The highest ranking military member judicially punished in connection with the death of a detainee is Marine Major Clarke Paulus, who was found guilty of maltreatment and dereliction of duty and dismissed from the service.[8]

* Reportedly 100-150 individuals have been rendered from U.S. custody to a foreign country known to torture prisoners, including to Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Pakistan;[9]

* There are 6 main acknowledged U.S. detention facilities worldwide--3 in Iraq, 2 in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay;[10]

* There are approximately 25 transient facilities - field prisons designed to house detainees only for a short period until they can be released or transferred to a more permanent facility-in Afghanistan and Iraq;[11]

* There are believed to be at least 11 ‘secret’ detention locations used since September 2001. They are/were CIA facilities in Afghanistan, Guantanamo, Poland, Romania, and Jordan, detention facilities in Alizai, Kohat and Peshawar in Pakistan, a facility on the U.S. Naval Base on the island of Diego-Garcia, and detentions of prisoners on U.S. ships, particularly the USS Peleliu and USS Bataan.[12]

* Over 15,000 people are currently in U.S. detention in just Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay. As of February 16, 2006, in Iraq, there were 14,389 detainees in U.S. custody; as of December 2005, the U.S. was holding approximately 500 detainees in Afghanistan; as of February 10, 2006 there are approximately 490 detainees held at Guantanamo Bay and one enemy combatants held in the U.S.;[13]

* 36 prisoners are believed to be held in unknown locations;[14]

* At least 376 foreign fighters detained in Iraq to whom the Administration has asserted the Geneva Conventions do not apply;[15]

* There were up to 100 ghost detainees in Iraq;[16]

* The U.S. transferred at least one dozen prisoners out of Iraq for further interrogation in violation of the Geneva Conventions;[17]

* 8 percent of 517 Guantanamo detainees were considered al Qaeda fighters by the U.S. Government. Of the remaining detainees, 40% have no definitive connection to al Qaeda or Taliban.[18]

* 5 percent of the 517 detainees held at Guantanamo were captured by the United States and the majority of those currently in custody were turned over by other parties during a time when the United States was offering large sums for captured prisoners.[19]

* At least 267 detainees have been released from Guantanamo Bay since January 2002. 187 were released out right, and 80 were transferred to their home countries for continued detention;[20]

* 38 detainees at Guantanamo determined not to be enemy combatants pursuant to CSRT and at least 23 detainees subsequently released; 558 CSRTS conducted in total[21]

* As of February 9, 2006, the military had completed its first round of Administrative Review Board (ARB) hearings, resulting in 463 board recommendations of which Deputy Secretary of Defense Gordon R. England, the Designated Civilian Official for ARBs decided to allow 14 releases (3 percent), 120 transfers (26 percent) and to continue to detain 329 individuals (71 percent);[22]

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/us_law/etn...c/factsheet.htm

seems to me we ARE doing our fair share of mistreatment...

Edited September 7, 2006 by Marc and Olga

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

here we go again.......

the only comparison that was being made is that lenin, hitler, and obl are all evil men that openly espoused their beliefs. it has nothing to do with whether they have similar ideaologies or similar goals. you bush bashers should stop being so cerebral in trying to promote your indefensible argument.

hitler invaded poland to take over a country, we invaded iraq and liberated a country.

jews were more than mistreated in germany, they were murdered, gased, put in concentration camps at the order of hitler. muslims in the usa do not face this. are they victims of hate crime? sure, but these are done by a few hateful idiots. bush has never advocated anything other than tolerance and respect for any persons peaceful religious belief.

Are you suggesting that we can assume Bush's meaning as opposed to the words he actually used?

[Fischkoepfin 1]

here we go again.......

the only comparison that was being made is that lenin, hitler, and obl are all evil men that openly espoused their beliefs. it has nothing to do with whether they have similar ideaologies or similar goals. you bush bashers should stop being so cerebral in trying to promote your indefensible argument.

hitler invaded poland to take over a country, we invaded iraq and liberated a country.

jews were more than mistreated in germany, they were murdered, gased, put in concentration camps at the order of hitler. muslims in the usa do not face this. are they victims of hate crime? sure, but these are done by a few hateful idiots. bush has never advocated anything other than tolerance and respect for any persons peaceful religious belief.

you do not do your political cause any good trying to compare bush to hitler. but i guess it makes you feel better.

i

If Bush makes a comparison that is historically inaccurate he is doing so not to point out parallels but to play on people's historical fears because he - or at least his speech writers know - that most people will not catch him.

By the way, and this is not meant as a comparison of Bush and Hitler, Hitler claimed to "liberate" Poland, and some other countries as well. Which shows that language if twisted the right way can say one thing and mean another.

Also, as to your comparison with the Holocaust, Hitler needed a few years (9 to be exact) before he had marginalized Jews enough to kill them on a grand scale. Currently Muslims are being marginalized in the US, which should give us a pause, even if so far they are only targeted "by a few hateful idiots." Bush and his crusader rhetoric do not help in this situation.

I can't remember anyone comparing Bush to Hitler (at least not in this thread), and I do think it's an ineffective comparison. Pointing out parallels, however, be it in terms of policies or legislation and the like, is jsut an expression of concern for the well-being of the nation.

[Veiled Princess 1]

i was raised by a family of liberal democrats. when i would ask why we belonged to that party i was always told because the democratic party was the kind and compassionate party....didn't take me long to figure out......not so much

Are you implying that I am a liberal democrat? I'm do not affiliate with any party

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

i was raised by a family of liberal democrats. when i would ask why we belonged to that party i was always told because the democratic party was the kind and compassionate party....didn't take me long to figure out......not so much

Are you implying that I am a liberal democrat? I'm do not affiliate with any party

Neither do I. I think it's assumed for anyone who doesn't like Bush

[mmmbop1976 1]

Darn, I thought I would be able to come here and say if ANYONE was like Hitler, he should look in the mirror.

this looks like comparing bush to hitler to me???? did u read this thread? it was on the 1st page, not hard to find

[Veiled Princess 1]

i was raised by a family of liberal democrats. when i would ask why we belonged to that party i was always told because the democratic party was the kind and compassionate party....didn't take me long to figure out......not so much

Are you implying that I am a liberal democrat? I'm do not affiliate with any party

Neither do I. I think it's assumed for anyone who doesn't like Bush

Hmmm wonder what they say about me then??? I don't like ANY politician

[mmmbop1976 1]

i was raised by a family of liberal democrats. when i would ask why we belonged to that party i was always told because the democratic party was the kind and compassionate party....didn't take me long to figure out......not so much

Are you implying that I am a liberal democrat? I'm do not affiliate with any party

Neither do I. I think it's assumed for anyone who doesn't like Bush

i didn't name names...but i see enough of it on the news....nancy pelosi, hillary clinton, many other liberal democrats that seem to have some parallel views to some views many people on this thread have espoused on other threads......and they don't seem very kind or compassionate...unless you are willing to agree with them and submit to their power.....

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

i was raised by a family of liberal democrats. when i would ask why we belonged to that party i was always told because the democratic party was the kind and compassionate party....didn't take me long to figure out......not so much

Are you implying that I am a liberal democrat? I'm do not affiliate with any party

Neither do I. I think it's assumed for anyone who doesn't like Bush

i didn't name names...but i see enough of it on the news....nancy pelosi, hillary clinton, many other liberal democrats that seem to have some parallel views to some views many people on this thread have espoused on other threads......and they don't seem very kind or compassionate...unless you are willing to agree with them and submit to their power.....

So does Bush who's official public position now appears to link Islam to Fascism.