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Kiwifruit

ADN vs BSN

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Hello VJers

What can I say, my brain is melting somewhat and I am feeling a bit overwhelmed.

Currently I have a business degree and work in a really boring job which is like lignocaine (lido) for the brain (yes that rhymes I know, thats why I put it! lol) however for a few years now I have considered becoming an RN as I am also a casual Ambulance Officer (Intermediate Care) and have a great interest in critical and intensive care medicine and anaesthesia. I have read Guyton's Medical Physiology for fun ... what does THAT tell you? LOL

New Zealand only has the BN (Bachelor of Nursing - BSN equivalent) however I know the US still has a two year program. I am looking for some info as to which is better in terms of marketability and actually getting work for I'm at the "OK we go on our honeymoon and come back, now what?" stage.

I have looked at ADN at the local community college (should take ma about a year) however there are some options for second degree BSN or a direct entry MSN where you do the BSN in a year then do the Masters over 12 or 18 months part time.

I already have a significant acumen for and depth of clinical knowledge by way of my Ambulance experience and feel I should tackle the second degree BSN or MSN outright as this will give me a better foundation and get everything over in one go. That however comes with the downside that its longer and more expensive especially if IU don't grant me resident rates (12 month rule) whereas in a year I can have my ADN and an RN license in hand.

Not wanting to trample on the well established professional standards that my nursing colleagues have built over the last 200 years and take the "short cut" but honestly, I need something that will get me work as fast as possible!

By way of my Bachelors Degree I can probably get rid of most of the pre-req classes except for one or two basic sciences (chem, bio etc0 I already have A&P done and want to do patho and pharmo while I'm still here (these are University level).

Now I hate to reduce our jobs to a skills peeing match but on the ambo I can do the following (perhaps you are interested): OPA/NPA/LMA, aspirin, GTN (NTG) SL, salbutamol, methoxyflurane, ondansetron, IM glucagon, PO glucose, IV cannulation, IV fluid administration, adrenaline, cardioversion, manual defibrillation, 12 lead ECG interpretation (bit rusty on that one!).

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Ben


Jun 8, 2011: Mailed I-129F

Jun 13, 2011: NOA1

Jun 14, 2011: Touched

Jun 14, 2011 - xxx xx, 2011: Almost daily paranoid checking of USCIS.gov lol

"Those who dare to fail may achieve greatly" - John F Kennedy

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Hello VJers

What can I say, my brain is melting somewhat and I am feeling a bit overwhelmed.

Currently I have a business degree and work in a really boring job which is like lignocaine (lido) for the brain (yes that rhymes I know, thats why I put it! lol) however for a few years now I have considered becoming an RN as I am also a casual Ambulance Officer (Intermediate Care) and have a great interest in critical and intensive care medicine and anaesthesia. I have read Guyton's Medical Physiology for fun ... what does THAT tell you? LOL

New Zealand only has the BN (Bachelor of Nursing - BSN equivalent) however I know the US still has a two year program. I am looking for some info as to which is better in terms of marketability and actually getting work for I'm at the "OK we go on our honeymoon and come back, now what?" stage.

I have looked at ADN at the local community college (should take ma about a year) however there are some options for second degree BSN or a direct entry MSN where you do the BSN in a year then do the Masters over 12 or 18 months part time.

I already have a significant acumen for and depth of clinical knowledge by way of my Ambulance experience and feel I should tackle the second degree BSN or MSN outright as this will give me a better foundation and get everything over in one go. That however comes with the downside that its longer and more expensive especially if IU don't grant me resident rates (12 month rule) whereas in a year I can have my ADN and an RN license in hand.

Not wanting to trample on the well established professional standards that my nursing colleagues have built over the last 200 years and take the "short cut" but honestly, I need something that will get me work as fast as possible!

By way of my Bachelors Degree I can probably get rid of most of the pre-req classes except for one or two basic sciences (chem, bio etc0 I already have A&P done and want to do patho and pharmo while I'm still here (these are University level).

Now I hate to reduce our jobs to a skills peeing match but on the ambo I can do the following (perhaps you are interested): OPA/NPA/LMA, aspirin, GTN (NTG) SL, salbutamol, methoxyflurane, ondansetron, IM glucagon, PO glucose, IV cannulation, IV fluid administration, adrenaline, cardioversion, manual defibrillation, 12 lead ECG interpretation (bit rusty on that one!).

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Ben

I'd suggest the BSN. Way more options, and it won't take you much time at all. :) Good Luck!


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a zillion threads on this on allnurses.com If you already have a degree, you may be able to go the accelerated BSN route and be done in a yr.

1 has to consider many factors. Usually much cheaper to get ur ADN (not always the case, their are some $$$$ schools out there)And if one has a medical background along with Your ADN,that can really help. My Adn degree cost me like $5000 ttl and that included books and the hospital would pay for BSN if I wanted to go that route--better coming from their pocket then mine! Some super pricey BSN programs out there! And depending where you are, there are some very reputable ADN programs. I had no trouble finding a job. But the market in some cities (such as DC) for new grads really sucks! So anything to give yourself an edge will help. As well i work at a magent hospital (not a big deal) some say they only hire BSN's, whch is not true.

In the long run, yes one will always have more options with the more education one has. Many places don't pay extra for the BSN or if they do it is very little (always exception to that rule) but if one wants to go into management one usually has to have BSN or higher (not always the case either)

I think the situation depends on the person. If one is an older person as myself that has proven themselves in another profession that was high paced, did my EMT-B, along with my ADN, proves a lot more than some one in their 20's that has a BSN but no other job experience! Who is more of the gamble in the eyes of the manager doing the recruiting??? School is different than real world! Juts m2 2 cents,lol But in the long run,the more education/training one has, the better off you should be. I rather have the hospital pick up most of the tab! Best of luck


Canadians Visiting the USA while undergoing the visa process, my free advice:

1) Always tell the TRUTH. never lie to the POE officer

2) Be confident in ur replies

3) keep ur response short and to the point, don't tell ur life story!!

4) look the POE officer in the eye when speaking to them. They are looking for people lieing and have been trained to find them!

5) Pack light! No job resumes with you

6) Bring ties to Canada (letter from employer when ur expected back at work, lease, etc etc)

7) Always be polite, being rude isn't going to get ya anywhere, and could make things worse!!

8) Have a plan in case u do get denied (be polite) It wont harm ur visa application if ur denied,that is if ur polite and didn't lie! Refer to #1

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BSN's the way to go if you want to work in critical care. Some larger hospitals will only hire BSN RNs to work in the ICU or ER in new grad positions. (Flames is right about the Magnet hospital rumor 'tho!) However, you probably won't get as much practical/clinical experience which is sometimes held against BSN candidates.

What sort of EMS training do you have? Can you put in IVs, intubate, etc? Were your grades for your business degree good? Nursing school is super competitive these days, especially in BSN programs. My school had twenty-five applicants for every student spot last year. Also, the job market for new nursing grads is not as good as you'll be lead to believe. (There was something like 800+ applications for 78 new grad jobs last semester at the hospital my school is affiliated with. Statistically, 40% of new grads do not find nursing jobs and the average time between passing NCLEX and getting a job is 8-9 months.) Especially if you can't relocate. EMS experience might help you get a job but look into either getting your CNA or getting hired as a nurse tech on a unit after you start school.

Edited by HannahP

we met: 07-22-01

engaged: 08-03-06

I-129 sent: 01-07-07

NOA2 approved: 04-02-07

packet 3 sent: 05-31-07

interview date: 06-25-07 - approved!

marriage: 07-23-07

AOS sent: 08-10-07

AOS/EAD/AP NOA1: 09-14-07

AOS approved: 11-19-07

green card received: 11-26-07

lifting of conditions filed: 10-29-09

NOA received: 11-09-09

lifting of conditions approved: 12-11-09

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A lot of us ADN's work in critical care, and a lot of my class started in the ER! Again it depends on the school and the individual.

1 of the best things 1 can do is do a preceptorship during ur last semester if your program offers it. Lot of times they will hire you if they like what they see!

Edited by Flames9_RN

Canadians Visiting the USA while undergoing the visa process, my free advice:

1) Always tell the TRUTH. never lie to the POE officer

2) Be confident in ur replies

3) keep ur response short and to the point, don't tell ur life story!!

4) look the POE officer in the eye when speaking to them. They are looking for people lieing and have been trained to find them!

5) Pack light! No job resumes with you

6) Bring ties to Canada (letter from employer when ur expected back at work, lease, etc etc)

7) Always be polite, being rude isn't going to get ya anywhere, and could make things worse!!

8) Have a plan in case u do get denied (be polite) It wont harm ur visa application if ur denied,that is if ur polite and didn't lie! Refer to #1

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It probably does depend on the area. In my area, none of the major hospitals will hire ADN students into *new grad* positions for critical care. The big children's hospital doesn't even let ADN students do preceptorships in the ICUs there. For some reason, this has morphed into Magnet hospitals don't hire ADNs? at least around here.

I haven't graduated yet but I have a handful of friends who have already been offered RN jobs based on CNA/nurse tech performance.


we met: 07-22-01

engaged: 08-03-06

I-129 sent: 01-07-07

NOA2 approved: 04-02-07

packet 3 sent: 05-31-07

interview date: 06-25-07 - approved!

marriage: 07-23-07

AOS sent: 08-10-07

AOS/EAD/AP NOA1: 09-14-07

AOS approved: 11-19-07

green card received: 11-26-07

lifting of conditions filed: 10-29-09

NOA received: 11-09-09

lifting of conditions approved: 12-11-09

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Ambulance here is very highly educated and well skilled, requiring thousands of hours of education and it will soon required a Post Graduate Diploma to become what is equivalent to a "Paramedic" in the US. Sadly the US is not the same, a few months at a votech school and 600-1000 hours of "training" suffices for Paramedics. We have drugs and clinical autonomy that the US can only dream of, e.g. ketamine, rapid sequence intubation, thrombolysis prehospital etc.

An equivalent level of what I am does not exist in the US and its difficult if not impossible to get my clinical education recognised, I would have to start out with a 100 hour "Technician" course (such a course would not even qualify somebody to touch a patient here) and work up from there.

My scope of practice is as follows (this is totally autonomous, I don't need to speak to a medical control physician to do any of it) OPA/NPA/LMA, aspirin, GTN (NTG) SL, salbutamol, methoxyflurane, ondansetron, IM glucagon, PO glucose, IV cannulation, IV fluid administration, adrenaline, cardioversion, manual defibrillation, 12 lead ECG interpretation (bit rusty on that one!).

My business degree grades were pretty good actually, about a B or B+ overall and I've had a good few years of experience dealing with people so I can think on my feet and handle stress quite well.

It would be ideal to do my second-degree BSN however that is going to prove a lot more expensive particularly if I need to wait 12 months to get resident tuition.


Jun 8, 2011: Mailed I-129F

Jun 13, 2011: NOA1

Jun 14, 2011: Touched

Jun 14, 2011 - xxx xx, 2011: Almost daily paranoid checking of USCIS.gov lol

"Those who dare to fail may achieve greatly" - John F Kennedy

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I only did my EMT-B and stopped there and then went the RN route. I'm not certain, but there is a lot of schooling for EMT Intermediate and then for paramedic. I know many community programs offer the classes for that to earn a degree, but uncertain if one actually has to take those to be a paramedic.

As well--probably the biggest factor is experience! One you get experience, your good to go. Nursing is an ok job, you will be busy, to see the least. Its sort of a love/hate job,lol I have a few more months of my present position,then were moving and who knows if I will work! Wont miss the job, will miss the staff


Canadians Visiting the USA while undergoing the visa process, my free advice:

1) Always tell the TRUTH. never lie to the POE officer

2) Be confident in ur replies

3) keep ur response short and to the point, don't tell ur life story!!

4) look the POE officer in the eye when speaking to them. They are looking for people lieing and have been trained to find them!

5) Pack light! No job resumes with you

6) Bring ties to Canada (letter from employer when ur expected back at work, lease, etc etc)

7) Always be polite, being rude isn't going to get ya anywhere, and could make things worse!!

8) Have a plan in case u do get denied (be polite) It wont harm ur visa application if ur denied,that is if ur polite and didn't lie! Refer to #1

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Kiwi -- I asked because I wasn't certain. I know different countries have different standards. Your particular qualifications do sound more like a US paramedic. I mean, hell, in the US, RNs have to be specially certified to administer many of the drugs that your paramedics can give! (Twilight sedation, clot busters, etc.) I don't know if you necessarily need to transfer qualifications over. Like flames mentioned, you have experience and that's what is really important for getting a RN job. Even just getting into school. You'd probably have more issues if you were a traditional student with a B-average applying for nursing school but you have a lot of things going for you that nursing schools look for: post-degree nontraditional, international, with varied experience in the medical field. :)


we met: 07-22-01

engaged: 08-03-06

I-129 sent: 01-07-07

NOA2 approved: 04-02-07

packet 3 sent: 05-31-07

interview date: 06-25-07 - approved!

marriage: 07-23-07

AOS sent: 08-10-07

AOS/EAD/AP NOA1: 09-14-07

AOS approved: 11-19-07

green card received: 11-26-07

lifting of conditions filed: 10-29-09

NOA received: 11-09-09

lifting of conditions approved: 12-11-09

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LOL thanks all, Kiwi sure is nontraditional, funny foreign fruit is hardly traditional now is it :P

Gosh the differences between NZ and the US when it comes to higher education are so marked, partic around funding as we have universal students loans that do not need to be repaid until you earn enough and no residency requirements, you can step off the boat on day 1 and if you are an LPR you pay resident rates here.

While I would love to go a B2 BSN or MSN its not financially practical to do so and only be on one income for 18 months or longer.

Thanks all, now does this look like VT to you? Oh well lets shock it anyway, sir, sir, this might hurt a wee bit! :D


Jun 8, 2011: Mailed I-129F

Jun 13, 2011: NOA1

Jun 14, 2011: Touched

Jun 14, 2011 - xxx xx, 2011: Almost daily paranoid checking of USCIS.gov lol

"Those who dare to fail may achieve greatly" - John F Kennedy

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Depends on the school when it comes to getting state rate or out of state rate. My school based my residency on my (american) wifes status of being a Virginia resident of over a yr,thus I got the in-State tuition rate, even though I just moved there! So ask, and it can vary from school to school!!


Canadians Visiting the USA while undergoing the visa process, my free advice:

1) Always tell the TRUTH. never lie to the POE officer

2) Be confident in ur replies

3) keep ur response short and to the point, don't tell ur life story!!

4) look the POE officer in the eye when speaking to them. They are looking for people lieing and have been trained to find them!

5) Pack light! No job resumes with you

6) Bring ties to Canada (letter from employer when ur expected back at work, lease, etc etc)

7) Always be polite, being rude isn't going to get ya anywhere, and could make things worse!!

8) Have a plan in case u do get denied (be polite) It wont harm ur visa application if ur denied,that is if ur polite and didn't lie! Refer to #1

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