They want to build a pipeline through a war zone.

[^_^ 5,021]

OK, I was wondering more along the lines of was the relationship inequitable, thus the complaining.

No, I don't think it's inequitable. I am told members of the Russian armed services also fall victim to the same garbage their country produces (and exports).

[The_Dude 1,142]

Back to the topic at hand. It is going to be interesting how things play out over the next decade with China and India now wading into this war of hegemony to control the natural resources.

[^_^ 5,021]

Back to the topic at hand. It is going to be interesting how things play out over the next decade with China and India now wading into this war of hegemony to control the natural resources.

Interesting frame. Buying resources from Turkmenistan is now hegemonistic? Negotiating price structures with Turkmenistan is not quite how you wage a war of hegemony.

New Delhi snubbed a proposal by Turkmenistan to link the price of natural gas through a planned pipeline to oil or naphtha, sources said.

...

Turkmenistan wanted to tie gas prices to those of fuel oil or naphtha, though New Delhi snubbed the proposal arguing its refineries were producing abundant naphtha so the logic was flawed, sources told Indian newspaper The Hindu.

...

Ashgabat

, meanwhile, said it was considering an option to tie the gas price to what India pays for liquefied natural gas from Qatar.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Interesting frame. Buying resources from Turkmenistan is now hegemonistic? Negotiating price structures with Turkmenistan is not quite how you wage a war of hegemony.

New Delhi snubbed a proposal by Turkmenistan to link the price of natural gas through a planned pipeline to oil or naphtha, sources said.

...

Turkmenistan wanted to tie gas prices to those of fuel oil or naphtha, though New Delhi snubbed the proposal arguing its refineries were producing abundant naphtha so the logic was flawed, sources told Indian newspaper The Hindu.

...

Ashgabat

, meanwhile, said it was considering an option to tie the gas price to what India pays for liquefied natural gas from Qatar.

It just seems that so many governments are driven by oil, whether a buyer or a seller. The U.S. has implanted itself into Iraq for that very reason. We may not have access to the oil in Iraq (Chi-Coms locked those up years ago), but we are situated in the region just in case the neo-cons are right. We know that oil is a finite resource just as the Chi-Coms and Indians know it. It seems inevitable that there will be some sort of military action at some point with all these unstable FSU nations.

[^_^ 5,021]

It just seems that so many governments are driven by oil, whether a buyer or a seller. The U.S. has implanted itself into Iraq for that very reason. We may not have access to the oil in Iraq (Chi-Coms locked those up years ago), but we are situated in the region just in case the neo-cons are right. We know that oil is a finite resource just as the Chi-Coms and Indians know it. It seems inevitable that there will be some sort of military action at some point with all these unstable FSU nations.

Well, the focus as of right now is on negotiated contracts with pipelines and security guarantees and set pricing structures. That's a good thing. Commerce is good, everyone wins - the Russians, the ChiComs and everyone else.

As for military action, the big player in that region is Russia. The ChiComs are nothing and India is less than nothing compared to the Russians. Even the U.S. is a bit player. The only way you have serious conflict in that region is if a player emerges that can go toe to toe with the bear. My bet is on al Qaeda or something similar.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Well, the focus as of right now is on negotiated contracts with pipelines and security guarantees and set pricing structures. That's a good thing. Commerce is good, everyone wins - the Russians, the ChiComs and everyone else.

As for military action, the big player in that region is Russia. The ChiComs are nothing and India is less than nothing compared to the Russians. Even the U.S. is a bit player. The only way you have serious conflict in that region is if a player emerges that can go toe to toe with the bear. My bet is on al Qaeda or something similar.

I agree that Russia is the power player, but how long until the Chi-Coms and India make headway into that arena? They have the military might and the cash, but not the long existing relationships and institutional corruption. The Chi-Coms have been asserting themselves more and have been working to establish relationships with oil producing nations. I wonder how long, and what path India will take towards a similar goal.

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I agree that Russia is the power player, but how long until the Chi-Coms and India make headway into that arena? They have the military might and the cash ...

India has a military but lacks the willingness to use it with the kind of vicious effectiveness the ChiComs and the Russians are known for. One example - a few years ago, an Indian passenger jet was hijacked by Islamic extremists and they forced the plane to land in then Taliban controlled Afghanistan. The hijackers demanded release of certain Islamic terrorists from Indian prisons. The Indian reaction was one of crying family members on TV demanding the prisoners be released. The Indian foreign minister (equiv of Sec State) went to Afghan personally with the prisoners and did a swap under the watchful gaze of the Taliban. The passengers came home safely and Indian "military might" was humiliated by a a bunch of bearded guys in Jeeps.

So really, don't worry about India. India can buy all the equipment they want from Russia but they lack the balls to use any of it in any meaningful way. The only time the Indian military is the least bit effective is when they are policing curfews on Indian streets.

As for the ChiComs, maybe. If their history in Tibet is any indicator, they have no qualms and no compunctions at all. They are kind of like Russia in that regard.

[The_Dude 1,142]

India has a military but lacks the willingness to use it with the kind of vicious effectiveness the ChiComs and the Russians are known for. One example - a few years ago, an Indian passenger jet was hijacked by Islamic extremists and they forced the plane to land in then Taliban controlled Afghanistan. The hijackers demanded release of certain Islamic terrorists from Indian prisons. The Indian reaction was one of crying family members on TV demanding the prisoners be released. The Indian foreign minister (equiv of Sec State) went to Afghan personally with the prisoners and did a swap under the watchful gaze of the Taliban. The passengers came home safely and Indian "military might" was humiliated by a a bunch of bearded guys in Jeeps.

So really, don't worry about India. India can buy all the equipment they want from Russia but they lack the balls to use any of it in any meaningful way. The only time the Indian military is the least bit effective is when they are policing curfews on Indian streets.

As for the ChiComs, maybe. If their history in Tibet is any indicator, they have no qualms and no compunctions at all. They are kind of like Russia in that regard.

Is the Indian military and government scared to engage in foreign policy like the Chi-Coms and Russia? They seem to have all the tools at their disposal.

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Is the Indian military and government scared to engage in foreign policy like the Chi-Coms and Russia? They seem to have all the tools at their disposal.

They're more hamstrung by their media than the ChiComs are.

[The_Dude 1,142]

They're more hamstrung by their media than the ChiComs are.

I see. I guess that whole communism thing has it's advantages.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8443787.stm

"Turkmenistan opens new Iran gas pipeline"

http://www.rferl.org/content/TurkmenistanChina_Gas_Pipeline_To_Open/1903108.html

"New Turkmen-China Pipeline Breaks Russia's Hold Over Central Asian Gas"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12103865

"Russia-China oil pipeline opens"

[The_Dude 1,142]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8443787.stm

"Turkmenistan opens new Iran gas pipeline"

http://www.rferl.org/content/TurkmenistanChina_Gas_Pipeline_To_Open/1903108.html

"New Turkmen-China Pipeline Breaks Russia's Hold Over Central Asian Gas"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12103865

"Russia-China oil pipeline opens"

I'll never understand why my work allows Facebook, but blocks the BBC. Go figure. I will have to take a look at those when I get home tonight.

I was reading an article about oil/gas industry in that region. Pretty scary when Russia is considered one of the more stable and rational leaders in that region.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I'll never understand why my work allows Facebook, but blocks the BBC. Go figure. I will have to take a look at those when I get home tonight.

I was reading an article about oil/gas industry in that region. Pretty scary when Russia is considered one of the more stable and rational leaders in that region.

What gets me is the sides are getting more blurred by the day. Everyones fighting for a piece of the actions in the Arctic (especially Russia and Canada) yet BP has teamed up with Gazprom to start drilling up there this summer even though it's been proven that there's no real way to contain a spill in those waters. Gazprom is essentially the Russian government, and BP is the UK's right arm.

[The_Dude 1,142]

What gets me is the sides are getting more blurred by the day. Everyones fighting for a piece of the actions in the Arctic (especially Russia and Canada) yet BP has teamed up with Gazprom to start drilling up there this summer even though it's been proven that there's no real way to contain a spill in those waters. Gazprom is essentially the Russian government, and BP is the UK's right arm.

Arcitc drilling rights are pretty absurd, especially when you look at Russia's justification. Seeing as there is no real land in the Arctic, it should be divided along the lines of coastal access, which Canada has a huge advantage over. But the Canadian govt is quite timid, and last I read they lacked some of the technology to adequately drill.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Arcitc drilling rights are pretty absurd, especially when you look at Russia's justification. Seeing as there is no real land in the Arctic, it should be divided along the lines of coastal access, which Canada has a huge advantage over. But the Canadian govt is quite timid, and last I read they lacked some of the technology to adequately drill.

The Canucks are taking a stand on this one though. They have beefed up their military in the Arctic and what the Canadians don't have in technology the US will be sure to give to them. It's a trade off. Here in Alaska all the major mining is done by Canadian outfits, and in Canada all the gas lines in Canada are being worked on with US company's.

In fact last year when they shut down the US F-15's due to some kind of defect, it was the Canadian air force that did all the air patrols here. They covered us for over a month...doesn't sound like a big deal, but we get Russian air craft crossing into our air space on a weekly bases.