Has your MENA spouse changed their perspective/opinion re: the US after living here for some time?

[Mithra 1,185]

Not sure if this has been discussed or not but has your spouse changed their perspective regarding the US since they arrived? Have their goals/plans changed? Have their opinions changed? If your spouse/fiance(e) is not here yet, do you anticipate a change? I'm not talking about change of attitude or behavior so much. That's been discussed ad nauseum in this forum.

[msheesha 548]

My husband's been here just about 4 months, so you may not want a response this early.

But, his goals/plans have remained the same and thankfully have worked out so far, re: career wise.

Re: his impressions about the US, he's surprised that everyone seems more monetarily motivated than he anticipated.

He's surprised that from his perspective people value money even more than they value relationships.

He's also surprised about some social aspects of the US.

What makes you ask?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

My husband's been here just about 4 months, so you may not want a response this early.

But, his goals/plans have remained the same and thankfully have worked out so far, re: career wise.

Re: his impressions about the US, he's surprised that everyone seems more monetarily motivated than he anticipated.

He's surprised that from his perspective people value money even more than they value relationships.

He's also surprised about some social aspects of the US.

What makes you ask?

I do not think Americans are more materialistic than the people in MENA. I think in many ways they think alot more about what will financially happen to them when they make choices. Thats why alot of parents insist on heavy mahers for their daughters because like good moms, if you buy the cow, you appreciate the milk...My family is very ethical and not in anyway money oriented. Maybe he should meet some liberal arts professors at the local university.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Hanging in there

[Jenn! 918]

He's been here for five years now. I think overall he's come to appreciate things about America more over time. He still goes back and forth between things that are so much better here than in Morocco and things that are so much better in Morocco than here.

[Mithra 1,185]

I probably shouldn't have put in the blurb about 6 mos. but I figured 6 mos. was a good amount of time to see some changes, if any.

I asked to see if anyone else's spouse has experienced a change like mine did. When my husband first came to the US (and even before arriving) he talked about wanting to become a Naturalized Citizen one day, starting his own business or thinking it would be easy to find work in his field or really any work that would make a good amount of money. Now becoming a citizen is unimportant to him and he's a lot more realistic about money/jobs. He likes that most people are not as invasive when it comes to their neighbors and sometimes even their families. Or at least that's his experience. He likes how efficient gov't offices and other places of business are here. He likes that most places are a good bit cleaner here. He likes that the majority of people are pretty respectful to each other regardless of their job or social status. I believe the biggest thing that has changed his perspective on life here is going back to Egypt last year. I probably have more to add but I have two kids, two dogs, video games, a cat and a loud TV in the background right now and it's distracting.

In response to your comment about Americans being more preoccupied with money. I would say we're more preoccupied with work and have more of a drive for success in that respect but not necessarily a drive for money, alone. I've known plenty of MENA folks that were very greedy and very preoccupied with money.

My husband's been here just about 4 months, so you may not want a response this early.

But, his goals/plans have remained the same and thankfully have worked out so far, re: career wise.

Re: his impressions about the US, he's surprised that everyone seems more monetarily motivated than he anticipated.

He's surprised that from his perspective people value money even more than they value relationships.

He's also surprised about some social aspects of the US.

What makes you ask?

[CasandraYounes 0]

My husband has been here a year and two months and his plans have not changed. At first, he thought Americans were a certain way and found that most people respect each other, keep to themselves and simply want to do for their families. My husband and I both work, but he still has this ideal of finding a job to make a lot of money. Many of his friends in Morocco keep trying to think of quick ideas like selling phones or doing something like that. However, he is slowly realizing that it takes time and is currently in school and has completed two semesters. Like Jenn, my husband loves many things about America, but also finds that some things are better in Morocco. Getting into politics is another story.

[msheesha 548]

I do not think Americans are more materialistic than the people in MENA. I think in many ways they think alot more about what will financially happen to them when they make choices. Thats why alot of parents insist on heavy mahers for their daughters because like good moms, if you buy the cow, you appreciate the milk...My family is very ethical and not in anyway money oriented. Maybe he should meet some liberal arts professors at the local university.

Frankly, nobody asked you what you thought. The question wasn't about what you as an American think about America. Nice, forward thinking analogy, though (women=cows). Brilliant.

[msheesha 548]

I probably shouldn't have put in the blurb about 6 mos. but I figured 6 mos. was a good amount of time to see some changes, if any.

I asked to see if anyone else's spouse has experienced a change like mine did. When my husband first came to the US (and even before arriving) he talked about wanting to become a Naturalized Citizen one day, starting his own business or thinking it would be easy to find work in his field or really any work that would make a good amount of money. Now becoming a citizen is unimportant to him and he's a lot more realistic about money/jobs. He likes that most people are not as invasive when it comes to their neighbors and sometimes even their families. Or at least that's his experience. He likes how efficient gov't offices and other places of business are here. He likes that most places are a good bit cleaner here. He likes that the majority of people are pretty respectful to each other regardless of their job or social status. I believe the biggest thing that has changed his perspective on life here is going back to Egypt last year. I probably have more to add but I have two kids, two dogs, video games, a cat and a loud TV in the background right now and it's distracting.

In response to your comment about Americans being more preoccupied with money. I would say we're more preoccupied with work and have more of a drive for success in that respect but not necessarily a drive for money, alone. I've known plenty of MENA folks that were very greedy and very preoccupied with money.

That's funny. My husband thinks exactly the opposite! He wouldn't think to ask come questions I think are normal/common place. For example, when he went to get his hair cut by a Moroccan in/near a Moroccan community, I told him to ask the barber if there was a good mosque nearby. He thought that was too personal a question to ask the first time!! Because it entailed then knowing info about whether the man went to the mosque, etc. Other examples include me asking about someone he met - "oh, what school does he go to?" or "what kind of work does he do?" or "is he married?", etc. He thinks that's all too personal, while I think here it's just normal chit chat type of stuff.

Re: the money comment - the example I was thinking of - he goes to the store nearby - kind of like a corner store - regularly - several times a week, says hi, makes small talk with the clerk, etc. Clerk knows he lives nearby. One day he went in for a juice that cost less than $2. when he got to the counter, he realized he forgot his wallet at home. He was surprised that she did not say, oh just bring me the money next time, or something along those lines. He feels that if it was near his home in Morocco, the relationship would have been more important than the risk of losing less than $2.

right or wrong, that's what he's commented about being surprised about. It's also not to imply that there's not anything like that in mena, and it's not in comparison to mena. Just solely his expectations about the US.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Frankly, nobody asked you what you thought. The question wasn't about what you as an American think about America. Nice, forward thinking analogy, though (women=cows). Brilliant.

I have found that the longer most mena are in the usa, the more they respect American traditions. Its helps if they are with an American who respects the country, its freedom, appreciates the sacrifices of its soldiers, its constitution and is proud of their parents, grandparents and the sacrifices their forefathers made to build this country. The best example we can give to a new immigrant is to share what we really love about America. If we look down at a our culture as Americans and criticise it ourselves instead of looking for its merits, then people arriving here will think less of it.

I served my country in 2 different military services, am the child of a Normandy veteran and frankly we owe a tremendous credit to the soldiers of Morocco and Algeria and Tunisia because they helped the allies win WW2. We should focus on our similarities.

I grew up with well educated parents and travelled overseas and frankly from my experience, many of the newly arrived mena that I have met have been alot more focused on money and what they could take from America not offer America. This is a big change from 15 years ago when it was terrible hardship that many arrived. I think the most successful immigrants are looking for a way to give back to this country, not condemn and criticise it.

I think a self hating American will impose alot of her views on an immigrant. I think someone that loves this country will consistantly point out its benefits. If we look for ways to love where we are from, we will impart that on people who just arrive here. Too many marry from overseas and for some reason, throw away all thats good to please someone who should love who they were to begin with, not require that they be a cheaper, lesser version of themselves,self loathing and turning their backs on their own culture to morph into someone that is completely not authentic...

For example, at this moment their are riots across North Africa over food and rising prices. You do not see that in the USA even though many are homeless, lost their houses, their jobs. They pull together and make do. Thats the American spirit. I have heard many Algerians and Tunisians lately say how blessed they feel to be in a country that faces adversity with civility. We are civil and some MENA really embrace and see that

Edited January 8, 2011 by Hanging in there

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I probably shouldn't have put in the blurb about 6 mos. but I figured 6 mos. was a good amount of time to see some changes, if any.

I asked to see if anyone else's spouse has experienced a change like mine did. When my husband first came to the US (and even before arriving) he talked about wanting to become a Naturalized Citizen one day, starting his own business or thinking it would be easy to find work in his field or really any work that would make a good amount of money. Now becoming a citizen is unimportant to him and he's a lot more realistic about money/jobs. He likes that most people are not as invasive when it comes to their neighbors and sometimes even their families. Or at least that's his experience. He likes how efficient gov't offices and other places of business are here. He likes that most places are a good bit cleaner here. He likes that the majority of people are pretty respectful to each other regardless of their job or social status. I believe the biggest thing that has changed his perspective on life here is going back to Egypt last year. I probably have more to add but I have two kids, two dogs, video games, a cat and a loud TV in the background right now and it's distracting.

In response to your comment about Americans being more preoccupied with money. I would say we're more preoccupied with work and have more of a drive for success in that respect but not necessarily a drive for money, alone. I've known plenty of MENA folks that were very greedy and very preoccupied with money.

I dont think we are more preoccupied here about money. Here we have to work to pay bills and there is no cradle to the grave socialism like exists in France, which by the way is on the verge of economically collapsing because not enough immigrants are working to support the benefits they are taking..

You also dont see people sitting in coffee shops all day, talking and talking. Here you have to hustle to make it and with tremendous risk, comes tremendous opportunity. It also doesnt take 3 years to build a simple building here while everyone steals all the equipment

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

That's funny. My husband thinks exactly the opposite! He wouldn't think to ask come questions I think are normal/common place. For example, when he went to get his hair cut by a Moroccan in/near a Moroccan community, I told him to ask the barber if there was a good mosque nearby. He thought that was too personal a question to ask the first time!! Because it entailed then knowing info about whether the man went to the mosque, etc. Other examples include me asking about someone he met - "oh, what school does he go to?" or "what kind of work does he do?" or "is he married?", etc. He thinks that's all too personal, while I think here it's just normal chit chat type of stuff.

Re: the money comment - the example I was thinking of - he goes to the store nearby - kind of like a corner store - regularly - several times a week, says hi, makes small talk with the clerk, etc. Clerk knows he lives nearby. One day he went in for a juice that cost less than $2. when he got to the counter, he realized he forgot his wallet at home. He was surprised that she did not say, oh just bring me the money next time, or something along those lines. He feels that if it was near his home in Morocco, the relationship would have been more important than the risk of losing less than $2.

right or wrong, that's what he's commented about being surprised about. It's also not to imply that there's not anything like that in mena, and it's not in comparison to mena. Just solely his expectations about the US.

It depends on where they live. Even I, who has shopped at winn dixie for 15 years wouldnt expect the cashier to front me 2 dollars to give me an orange juice. If it was a yard mow or an individual service or the woman owned the company, perhaps buts its an expectation. It doesnt make us more materialistic. We are just forced to be more accountable due to how we account for things.

One thing for example thats nice though. When someone dies, Moroccans always seem to raise money to send him home and help each other. If my grandfather died, I couldnt go to the bar and ask for help for his wake....moroccans would raise thousands for the ticket...

[nurse1967 287]

My husband has realized that many Americans work really, really hard for what they have. My husband was a teacher back home and worked basically part time, even though he considered it full time. Since he's been here and working on his certification he has been working stocking at a grocery at night. They have worn him out. He is not used to physical labor. I just don't think he was used to the type of hard work we do here. He has been pleasantly surprised that he has not be discriminated against because he is Muslim. Only one person has made a somewhat rude comment about it and it was a coworker that is from England. So all in all I think he has found a new respect for America and it's people.

[Mithra 1,185]

I think it depends on where you live and/or the relationship you have with local businesses whether they'll spot you or not. I've seen it happen here on occasion, too. I can see that happening moreso in Morocco or any other MENA country since there's so much more familiarity within neighborhoods/communities.

I think any experience depends on many factors. Where the spouse is from exactly (down to the neighborhood), their socio-economic status, their personality, etc. There's no right or wrong.

That's funny. My husband thinks exactly the opposite! He wouldn't think to ask come questions I think are normal/common place. For example, when he went to get his hair cut by a Moroccan in/near a Moroccan community, I told him to ask the barber if there was a good mosque nearby. He thought that was too personal a question to ask the first time!! Because it entailed then knowing info about whether the man went to the mosque, etc. Other examples include me asking about someone he met - "oh, what school does he go to?" or "what kind of work does he do?" or "is he married?", etc. He thinks that's all too personal, while I think here it's just normal chit chat type of stuff.

Re: the money comment - the example I was thinking of - he goes to the store nearby - kind of like a corner store - regularly - several times a week, says hi, makes small talk with the clerk, etc. Clerk knows he lives nearby. One day he went in for a juice that cost less than $2. when he got to the counter, he realized he forgot his wallet at home. He was surprised that she did not say, oh just bring me the money next time, or something along those lines. He feels that if it was near his home in Morocco, the relationship would have been more important than the risk of losing less than $2.

right or wrong, that's what he's commented about being surprised about. It's also not to imply that there's not anything like that in mena, and it's not in comparison to mena. Just solely his expectations about the US.

[msheesha 548]

Many things are all about keeping things in perspective, balance & realizing everything is a mixed bag.

He didn't expect taxes to be so high, but he also didn't anticipate some of the supports that come along with

taxes, i.e. unemployment benefits. He was pleasantly surprised that if people here lose their jobs, there is a safety net like unemployment benefits.

Edited January 8, 2011 by msheesha

[ArabLoveMorocco 1]

I have found that the longer most mena are in the usa, the more they respect American traditions. Its helps if they are with an American who respects the country, its freedom, appreciates the sacrifices of its soldiers, its constitution and is proud of their parents, grandparents and the sacrifices their forefathers made to build this country. The best example we can give to a new immigrant is to share what we really love about America. If we look down at a our culture as Americans and criticise it ourselves instead of looking for its merits, then people arriving here will think less of it.

Marriage based visa residents should not be compared to "true immigrants". Actually they are not immigrants at all. True immigrants left their home land for politico-economic reasons. Marriage based visa residents came to the US simply for family/relationship reasons. Huge difference.