ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

[Welshcookie 17]

I like pink

Damn pink likers!

[Heracles 417]

The inconsistency and aparently capricious enforcement of the TOS in OT is what is so infuriating to me. I understand and accept my suspension and scoldings for my insults, but when I call someone an ignorant racist for posting something that is appropriately described as such and I get a suspension and does not, it's beyond irritating. Sorry, but I find racist postings to be a more egregious offense, and for it to be handled with a lesser degree than that of a petty insult, I take umbrage with.

That is the problem right there, you and your mates on here love to throw out the labels any chance you get. If it's a topic and it contains a minority group, then regardless of what is discussed, it will result in such labels.

OT would be a great place if the people who have no intention or don't have the capacity to discuss a topic without insulting the poster, stay out of it. Once again, you have illustrated my points made in other threads that when you and the hand-full of like-minded buds deem something offensive, then everyone should stop what they are doing and bow down. Yet your barrage of insults , they're just funny right. It's mindbogglingly that you guys are apparently educated yet do not see the problem with this.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Heracles

[Fandango 1,440]

[Amby 490]

In some threads it seems like an internet game of chicken between some posters who don't "like" each other. It's like they are daring each other to cross the line and violate the TOS just so they can report them.

[Heracles 417]

In some threads it seems like an internet game of chicken between some posters who don't "like" each other. It's like they are daring each other to cross the line and violate the TOS just so they can report them.

Bingo. And I think we all know which handful of posters play this "petty" game. I hate to say it but Cleo played this game with me. She waited, waited and waited, then saw one word and had a fit; has this big ordeal about hate speech. Others tend to do the same, create threads in order to bait people.

If OT implemented a strict, zero tolerance policy, many of the posters whom over the days are up in arms about moderation or hate speech, would be regularly suspended. I can guarantee people that they would then be on here having another hissy-fit over the Mods and claiming VJ has now become Gestapo like.

I am willing to give it a go though, a zero tolerance policy in OT for a month. Certain posters just need to keep the following TOS in mind, which they currently violate hourly:

• Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten or otherwise violate the legal rights (such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others.
  
• Restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying the Forums.
  

Edited August 23, 2010 by Heracles

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

BY if you would just be honest and admit that you are at least equally responsible for the things you are complaining about we might actually get somewhere. Simply sitting there crying that you are somehow the victim of some cabal of posters plotting against you. Well... surely you have to see how silly that is.

Everyone on here has said things that they probably shouldn't have, tempers tend to fray easily in some of these threads and yes, sometimes people don't know when to stop. I can accept that and I'm as guilty of it as anyone. Still if you arent prepared to admit your own culpability then what is you think you are going to achieve here?

hold yourself to the behaviour you would demand from others and we might get somewhere, if of course you really are interested in changing the nature of dialog on here.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Its a MADHOUSE

[Heracles 417]

You guys claim you apaprently want equal moderation, then so do I.

Hate or racism offends you guys right.

Well insults offends me, yep even petty ones or labels like racist.

Henceforth both should result in suspension. Now, who do you think is going to receive more suspensions with such a moderation? My odd bordering hate speech comment or you and your mates daily insults. Spook for example, would be suspended for months.

[Heracles 417]

Like this...

I'm not trying to start a #######-for-tat quote-mining war, but the labels and the name-calling don't just come from one side. It's disingenuous to say that the name-calling comes just from one select group of people. Every side, if not everyone, is guilty of it. Start there and you might just make some progress.

Big difference there actually as lib or conservative is discussing a political mindset present in this country. Calling someone a Racist or RWN, from the get-go, is an attempt to defame and abuse and ridicule a poster. Continuing to do so and in every thread is an attempt to restrict and inhibit the poster's enjoyment of the forum; with both being TOS violations.

The fact is the over the years, the majority of people who have been up in arms over comments yet also the biggest instigators have been those with left leaning views. It's no surprise that those who claim there is too little or two much moderation, all have hardcore left wing views; some adamantly denying it of course. A few months ago it was too much, now its too little.

As I said, I am all for zero tolerance, but I think the people complaining will find out quick-smart that they are going to be suspended more than they think.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Heracles

[The_Dude 1,142]

That is the problem right there, you and your mates on here love to throw out the labels any chance you get. If it's a topic and it contains a minority group, then regardless of what is discussed, it will result in such labels.

OT would be a great place if the people who have no intention or don't have the capacity to discuss a topic without insulting the poster, stay out of it. Once again, you have illustrated my points made in other threads that when you and the hand-full of like-minded buds deem something offensive, then everyone should stop what they are doing and bow down. Yet your barrage of insults , they're just funny right. It's mindbogglingly that you guys are apparently educated yet do not see the problem with this.

BY, when you, or others post something that is blatantly racist, there is no expectation of any sort of discourse. You are just trolling and baiting for the sort of fights that your threads, or any thread that you become heavily involved in devolve to.

[Heracles 417]

BY, when you, or others post something that is blatantly racist, there is no expectation of any sort of discourse. You are just trolling and baiting for the sort of fights that your threads, or any thread that you become heavily involved in devolve to.

I agree, if you deem it racist then you report me. Yet if you label me a racist, then you too should be suspended.

Once again, do you really want to play a zero tolerance rule in OT? Unfortunately for you guys, that does include labeling people. You guys don't want that, what you want is to be able to play by your rules and cry when others play by their own.

PS Rob you see the word black and automatically deem it racist.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Heracles

[Amby 490]

Rob - I think there's also inconsistency cos people are friends on VJ. There's groups of people who may know each other in RL, have inside jokes, etc. There may be some things that aren't reported because of that. An example would be maybe someone said something that would be considered against the TOS or at least borderline offensive or a borderline "personal attack". I know the person, people know I'm "friends" with the person, and I don't really care about the comment. We have a laugh about it and nothing is reported. If it is reported, nothing is really done about it because I don't really care. If that same person said the same thing to someone else, even in a joking manner, they could be reported, there's outrage, etc.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm still not sure exactly what these types of threads are asking. It's all well and good to say people should just get on, but it just doesn't work like that.

[The_Dude 1,142]

I agree, if you deem it racist then you report me. Yet if you label me a racist, then you too should be suspended.

Once again, do you really want to play a zero tolerance rule in OT? Unfortunately for you guys, that does include labeling people. You guys don't want that, what you want is to be able to play by your rules and cry when others play by their own.

PS Rob you see the word black and automatically deem it racist.

BY, if you espouse racist beliefs and state that those are indeed your beliefs, then you are racist. I'm not looking for a zero tolerance policy, merely a consistent enforcement of the ToS that is in place. I personally believe your racist diatribes about anchor babies is far worse than me calling you out on it, but aparently, that opinion is not shared by the moderating team.

Rob - I think there's also inconsistency cos people are friends on VJ. There's groups of people who may know each other in RL, have inside jokes, etc. There may be some things that aren't reported because of that. An example would be maybe someone said something that would be considered against the TOS or at least borderline offensive or a borderline "personal attack". I know the person, people know I'm "friends" with the person, and I don't really care about the comment. We have a laugh about it and nothing is reported. If it is reported, nothing is really done about it because I don't really care. If that same person said the same thing to someone else, even in a joking manner, they could be reported, there's outrage, etc.

I think that the moderators have done a better job recently of actually consulting with the parties involved to check on the context of scenarios like what you point out. I do believe it does skew things. However, that is not my real issue. I am focused on the complacency of the moderators when it comes to racism.

[Heracles 417]

I'm still not sure exactly what these types of threads are asking. It's all well and good to say people should just get on, but it just doesn't work like that.

Quite simply as you don't seem to grasp basic concepts. There should be zero tolerance of TOS violations. From racism, to personal attacks, to Restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying the Forums[TOS], to even calling Marc a drunk. Yes that does includes calling someone a stupid, idiot, bigot, racist etc.

Do you agree with this or do prefer to simply stick what what you and your little like-minded group deems offensive?

BY, if you espouse racist beliefs and state that those are indeed your beliefs, then you are racist. I'm not looking for a zero tolerance policy, merely a consistent enforcement of the ToS that is in place. I personally believe your racist diatribes about anchor babies is far worse than me calling you out on it, but aparently, that opinion is not shared by the moderating team.

Basically what you are saying is that certain topics should not be discussed because you [personally] feel they are racist - like anchor-babies.

Zero tolerance is the only way to go, to be equal.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Heracles

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Quite simply as you don't seem to grasp basic concepts. There should be zero tolerance of TOS violations.

From racism, to personal attacks, to Restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying the Forums[TOS], to even calling Marc a drunk. Yes that does includes calling someone a stupid, idiot, bigot, racist etc.

Do you agree with this or do prefer to simply stick what what you and your little like-minded group deems offensive?

Racism is as racism does. If you use racist arguments and insults as you done on multiple occasions (and admitting doing so) people are going to call you a racist. I'm sorry but that's just the way it is. It's not an insult, its a direct commentary on your own words and if you genuinely want people to get on with each other you yourself will make the effort to stop creating these situations and not simply sit there and try to pin the blame on everyone else.