Riots in Oakland

[_Simpson_ 250]

No progress can come from people who like their own country the way it is.

It's best to stay and change it.

Isn't that what the founding fathers did ?

There are many things I don't like about the US. I will become a citizen in December and then I will work to change it - democratically

Bad news for those who like it the way it is...

as Abe Lincoln used to say

Who said I liked it the way it is? I have complained about our education system and obesity.

Once a again what none of you are addressing is the lack of positive comments by the usual suspects. Do you guys know anything about constructive criticism?

At the end of the day even though I have issues with this great country you know that I care.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Apparently unless one is fawning over the US on public message boards they do not have any patriotic sentiments.

Tell you what. You worry about your own patriotism and when it comes to that of others you mind your own goddamned business. Sound fair?

[Peikko 1,575]

It is a whole other debate, the issue from the get go is the way police are doing there jobs not about making guns illegal. Are you trying to suggest our officers shouldn't carry guns?

and again your are missing my point. Due to the amount of violence cops experience in certain areas its not surprise that you hear of these shootings. The policies are reasonable the criminals are not.

I never said hate, thats your word. I said discontent. I dont think you wish bad things on this country but I think you dont you like this country by any stretch of the imagination. I think you focus in on all our negatives and give us very little credit for anything. And again this is from two years of observing not this thread alone. Did you contribute positively to the American appreciation thread?

Well, if you believe that despite having no evidence of my 'discontent' beyond my making valid criticisms of aspects of the US that are flawed you are bonkers. As for my contributions in the American appreciation thread, perhaps you should go look?

You missed my point completely. There is a relationship between the availability of guns and number of criminal acts that escalate to mortal violence. While it is true that 'only the criminals' have guns in other nations (well, it's not true but that's the perception because you can't just go into the local gun store and walk out with guns and ammo), not all criminals have guns because IT IS NOT THAT EASY TO GET A HOLD OF THEM PERIOD (and most petty/small time criminals do not have access to illegal means of obtaining guns despite the scare mongering stories) - thus your drug addict looking for easy money in the US thinks nothing of holding up the local liquor store using a gun often giving rise to a violent bloody mess whereas your Brit counterpart drug addict loser might try to rob someone at knife point but you see robbing someone with a knife requires a whole new skillset than simply waving a gun around, so in actuality this isn't that common.

Now, I am not so stupid as to draw any absolute conclusions as to whether the ready availability of guns necessarily leads to an increase in violent crime, but from living in other nations, that is one obvious difference, as is the attitude of law enforcement towards criminals and the proportionate extremely low frequency of injury and death to either police officer/suspect during the process of arrest. It may well be that the price the US pays for the current interpretation of the second amendment is a highly violent society - then again, it could be something else again - like US folks are simply more blood thirsty than your European cousins

Edited July 12, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[_Simpson_ 250]

It was a fundamentally stupid question, therefore I ignored it and asked my own question to highlight it.

But come on then Simpson - lets have the "Why" on the bolded.

Perhaps you can explain how telling people you disagree with that they are unpatriotic and should leave, is "good for the country".

I haven't called anybody unpatriotic so quit lying pike. I would like to see people who dont give a dam leave, plain and simple.

So you believe that b1tch1ng 24/7 with nothing good to say is a good thing?

[Captain Oates 911]

Who said I liked it the way it is? I have complained about our education system and obesity.

Once a again what none of you are addressing is the lack of positive comments by the usual suspects. Do you guys know anything about constructive criticism?

At the end of the day even though I have issues with this great country you know that I care.

Can't disgree with that.

I would round up all them fat battys first and deport them to fatbatty land

Only then would I look for dissenters who have no ideas.

I agree that we have to have proposals every time we criticize. I have millions.

How can we change the constitution so I that I can become El Presidente and big dadda for life ? I know it can be done under the constitution if the right % vote for an amendment.

Praps I should just get a Hawaiian birth certificate and stop making it hard. Ebay - $50

Not that I am a Bertha but why reinvent the wheel ?

[_Simpson_ 250]

Apparently unless one is fawning over the US on public message boards they do not have any patriotic sentiments.

Tell you what. You worry about your own patriotism and when it comes to that of others you mind your own goddamned business. Sound fair?

No I wont, I will always call a spade a spade. I cant stand people who dont give a dam and act like they do when questioned.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I haven't called anybody unpatriotic so quit lying pike. I would like to see people who dont give a dam leave, plain and simple.

So you believe that b1tch1ng 24/7 with nothing good to say is a good thing?

You insinuated it clear as day when you questioned her "love" of the country. Perhaps you need to think things through before you hit "Add Reply", rather than try to BS people with semantics.

Your assumption is that she "bitches 24/7". Regardless, it isn't for you to question what anyone here feels about the USA. In point of fact, doing so suggests that you are at conflict with the founding values.

Fact is - I feel it is intolerant attitudes like yours that are unpatriotic and are bad for the country.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No I wont, I will always call a spade a spade. I cant stand people who dont give a dam and act like they do when questioned.

I can't stand people who think they hold the monopoly on patriotism. You don't. Quite the opposite in fact - but America tolerates you all the same.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Well, if you believe that despite having no evidence of my 'discontent' beyond my making valid criticisms of aspects of the US that are flawed you are bonkers. As for my contributions in the American appreciation thread, perhaps you should go look?

I asked a question but I have to say that turkey, Rockford files and freedom fries have me convinced.

You missed my point completely. There is a relationship between the availability of guns and number of criminal acts that escalate to mortal violence. While it is true that 'only the criminals' have guns in other nations (well, it's not true but that's the perception because you can't just go into the local gun store and walk out with guns and ammo), not all criminals have guns because IT IS NOT THAT EASY TO GET A HOLD OF THEM PERIOD (and most petty/small time criminals do not have access to illegal means of obtaining guns despite the scare mongering stories) - thus your drug addict looking for easy money in the US thinks nothing of holding up the local liquor store using a gun often giving rise to a violent bloody mess whereas your Brit counterpart drug addict loser might try to rob someone at knife point but you see robbing someone with a knife requires a whole new skillset than simply waving a gun around, so in actuality this isn't that common.

Right but the gun debate is different than how cops are doing there job.

Now, I am not so stupid as to draw any absolute conclusions as to whether the ready availability of guns necessarily leads to an increase in violent crime, but from living in other nations, that is one obvious difference, as is the attitude of law enforcement towards criminals and the proportionate extremely low frequency of injury and death to either police officer/suspect during the process of arrest. It may well be that the price the US pays for the current interpretation of the second amendment is a highly violent society - then again, it could be something else again - like US folks are simply more blood thirsty than your European cousins

or it could be that we have serious drug and border issues to deal with.

[Captain Oates 911]

Thing about Elmo is that she knows the UK and the US and so has the same data as the immigrants.

If she had simply dismissed everthing about the UK like in 'The Ugly American', she would have missed a great learning opportunity. She didnt. She compared and contrasted because thats what intellectuals are trained to do.

Being here in the US, the things that are wrong and right with the UK are magnified in my mind. Brits have never had a problem, slagging off the bad bits of the UK (especially scousers) but Americans only acknowledge the 'others' in their society as being the source of the bad things. All the freckly blonde happy all-American girls have beautiful teeth and skip along happily in the fresh air in their parent's farm yard under blue skies.

So there are horrible aspects of the UK and the US. Unless we can agree on that then we cant converse. So do we stay and campaign in one or the other ? Doesn't matter as long as we are benefiting and advancing some country by our constructive criticism and ideas.

Firing squads and prison conditions including concrete box isolation cages for life without review are a disgrace in the US and need to be changed for 1st world 2010 values. That isnt a left/right thing at all and many right wing humanitarians (not socialists) would agree with that.

I hate that about the US but that doesn't mean I hate the US. Also I don't have to love everything about the US in order to stay because I won't love everything about the UK/Germany/Spain/France etc and it's totalitarian to expect me to so do.

Edited July 12, 2010 by saywhat

[_Simpson_ 250]

You insinuated it clear as day when you questioned her "love" of the country. Perhaps you need to think things through before you hit "Add Reply", rather than try to BS people with semantics.

Your assumption is that she "bitches 24/7". Regardless, it isn't for you to question what anyone here feels about the USA. In point of fact, doing so suggests that you are at conflict with the founding values.

Please, I am tolerant of the haters otherwise you would all be on my ignore list.

Fact is - I feel it is intolerant attitudes like yours that are unpatriotic and are bad for the country

.

:rofl: Do you even know the definition of unpatriotic? Now if you would of said that my attitude was not helpful to this country that would of been different.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

You insinuated it clear as day when you questioned her "love" of the country. Perhaps you need to think things through before you hit "Add Reply", rather than try to BS people with semantics.

Your assumption is that she "bitches 24/7". Regardless, it isn't for you to question what anyone here feels about the USA. In point of fact, doing so suggests that you are at conflict with the founding values.

Fact is - I feel it is intolerant attitudes like yours that are unpatriotic and are bad for the country.

Ta muchly, Six.

The reality is that I love this country and the things that I would need to make it the place I want it to be are nigh on impossible, and not something that can be agitated for through political change. Can you bring me an English May? Can you bring the village pub to me? An autumn night in Scotland. My friends. My family over there. A (slightly) less consumerist society. BBC Four. The NHS. Lying back on a punt on the Isis in June. There is something ineffable about the longing I feel for all of this and it cannot be recreated over here, nor would I want it to be.

There is a German word for this emotion -- Sehnsucht -- a sense of longing for something gone, that we cannot readily identify or pin down. One is aware that one is longing for something, and it is this feeling of discomfort and loss that I feel on occasion. I have a feeling it is connected to Britain, but I cannot be sure; it could just as easily be for years and experiences gone by.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Please, I am tolerant of the haters otherwise you would all be on my ignore list.

More likely because the only power you have is to run your mouth

:rofl: Do you even know the definition of unpatriotic? Now if you would of said that my attitude was not helpful to this country that would of been different.

You can play that game if you want. Questioning someone's love for the country is questioning their patriotism. If don't believe that, then you are deluded.

[_Simpson_ 250]

I have to leave for now.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I have to leave for now.