Teenager Gets 25-Year Sentence in Hate Crime Killing on Long Island

[Susita 175]

Outstanding post.

I agree. Two thumbs up

[Peikko 1,575]

Of course it is, but it's not going to change any minds - some white folks are dirt bag poor too, didn't you know?

[twowls 217]

You clearly have not been to the Appalachian or seen trailer park after trailer park. It's a fallacy to assume white people are born with some sort of golden spoon up their azz.

The problem I have is that the US is turning a blind-eye to the actions of various communities just because of history. This is not the 1800's, nor even the 50s. Actually, the minority has grater access and more resources spent on them than the equivalent poor white - hello affirmative action.

I am sick and tired of seeing city after community destroyed, yet the actual perpetrators get a free pass. A pat on the back because it's the fault of others that teenagers, for example, decide to do a drive-by and shoot up a neighborhood.

...

Actually, I grew up near the Appalachians, in poverty, and am still in poverty. So I do understand that reality, and I happen to think that poor people of all races have more in common than people of a shared race that exist across a spectrum of economic power and should join forces. But that's a distinct issue and a red herring in the context of this conversation.

To your second paragraph, reality doesn't bear that out. The U.S. doesn't turn a blind eye to the actions of minority communities--quite the opposite, demonstrably. Blacks and Latinos are routinely and systematically targeted for greater scrutiny and are therefore punished with greater "efficiency" than members of the majority group.

And this: "Someone who is poor and black has the same opportunity as someone who is poor and White." If that's what you believe, then there's nothing I can say to open up the dialogue. You seem to be arguing, with this statement, that racism against minorities does not in fact exist or, if it exists, has no impact at all. Carry on.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

[quote name='twowls' date='27 May 2010 - 02:48 PM'

And this: "Someone who is poor and black has the same opportunity as someone who is poor and White." If that's what you believe, then there's nothing I can say to open up the dialogue. You seem to be arguing, with this statement, that racism against minorities does not in fact exist or, if it exists, has no impact at all. Carry on.

You don't think they have the same opportunity?

[Fandango 1,440]

Here's the thing: I don't care if hate crimes are used against minorities who commit 'hate crimes' against whites. That is not my argument. Mine is, just impose harsher sentencing, no need for special classification.

[Peikko 1,575]

You just want to fundamentally change how the criminal justice system works by imposing blanket sentences regardless of the circumstances surrounding the crime? Well, that's certainly one approach.

[Fandango 1,440]

You just want to fundamentally change how the criminal justice system works by imposing blanket sentences regardless of the circumstances surrounding the crime? Well, that's certainly one approach.

Now where did I say that? Hrmmm.

In fact, I do believe I have disclaimers in MANY of my posts to the contrary.

Silly girl!

'Oooh, this was a hate crime, automatically add X to the sentence'...sorry, no dice.

'Oh, that guy had his head chopped off and someone pizzed on him too, and did all sorts of deplorable things, but it doesn't qualify for a hate crime...' nope, no dice.

Conversely to what you said, this 'hate crime' angle does the same thing...imposing blanket harsher regardless of the circs surrounding the crime (should it qualify, of course)

See this?

She's BLIND. Equal justice for ALL, instead of some silly 'justice by numbers for certain people should it qualify' twaddle.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Happy Bunny

[Peikko 1,575]

You just said your thing was to 'impose harsher sentencing' no need for classifications. If that's not blanket sentencing I don't know what is.

As for the other stuff, it's meaningless. Justice by numbers for certain people to qualify. What do you even think that means?

You think that assessing a crime as a hate crime automatically imposes x sentence? What are you on girl?

[Obama 2012 1,714]

You just want to fundamentally change how the criminal justice system works by imposing blanket sentences regardless of the circumstances surrounding the crime? Well, that's certainly one approach.

What's so hard about it?

Capital Murder (1st Degree): Death.

Second-Degree Murder: Eligible For Parole after 20 years. Sentenced to 40 years.

Manslaughter: Parole after 8 years. Sentenced to 15 years.

Would be easy enough!

[Peikko 1,575]

Easy doesn't necessarily mean good. It's not what the American people signed up for either. I think you take your justice system for granted Paul.

[Fandango 1,440]

You just said your thing was to 'impose harsher sentencing' no need for classifications. If that's not blanket sentencing I don't know what is.

As for the other stuff, it's meaningless. Justice by numbers for certain people to qualify. What do you even think that means?

You think that assessing a crime as a hate crime automatically imposes x sentence? What are you on girl?

oh my God. Do you just like to argue?

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Easy doesn't necessarily mean good. It's not what the American people signed up for either. I think you take your justice system for granted Paul.

Why not good?

Capital Murder: an eye for an eye. also helps control population! A loss turned into a win!

Second Degree: 20 years is fair time to 'rehabilitate' (if we actually make it about rehabilitation mind you instead of confinement).

Manslaughter: Accidents happen. We're a forgiving people for the most part. 8 year minimum is fair enough.

Sounds pretty 'fair' in the avenue of fair as skewed as that road might be.

[Peikko 1,575]

oh my God. Do you just like to argue?

Sometimes. What sentence do you think is right for such a heinous crime?

However, your post is to suggest I did not read and understand what you said. Well, I read it, and that is my understanding of it. If you want to clarify, feel free.

Why not good?

Capital Murder: an eye for an eye. also helps control population! A loss turned into a win!

Second Degree: 20 years is fair time to 'rehabilitate' (if we actually make it about rehabilitation mind you instead of confinement).

Manslaughter: Accidents happen. We're a forgiving people for the most part. 8 year minimum is fair enough.

Sounds pretty 'fair' in the avenue of fair as skewed as that road might be.

We should rename it Paul's justice system. Bravo Paul

[Fandango 1,440]

Sometimes. What sentence do you think is right for such a heinous crime?

However, your post is to suggest I did not read and understand what you said. Well, I read it, and that is my understanding of it. If you want to clarify, feel free.

Reread everything I've said here...I've repeated myself a zillion times already.

[twowls 217]

You don't think they have the same opportunity?

Nope. And I'm starting to feel like a fool, trying to describe from the ground up the present-day texture of a society built on absolute inequality. I mean, really?

I think perhaps when you're a member of a majority group, it's harder to see the embedded realities that inform and restrict potential. For instance, never having seen someone who resembles you leading the country until a year and a half ago. Not having had the opportunity to be inspired by the example of an ancestor, because those ancestors didn't have the chance to do much else beyond be black, stay alive, and die. Getting refused service or being passed over for a job because of assumptions about your race isn't the whole picture, although that's still a reality too.

Just because voting rights have been secured and it is no longer legal to deny service or opportunity because of race doesn't mean that racism isn't still perpetuated in quiet and not so quiet ways every day--sometimes in ways the perpetrator can't even see. It's an atmosphere of undermining and it has effects on multiple levels. That's what it means when something is systemic--it's so embedded into the fabric of life, it becomes almost impossible to parse and address. So we do our best, try to be as aware as possible, and keep working.

I guess I'm so far "left" on this that I'm shocked that if people don't believe in the impact of all this, they might just move along. Instead, there's actual anger and backlash, as if the rights of the majority are being eroded by acknowledgment of these issues. I'm lost.