Worst economic crisis since the Great Depression? By a long shot.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

The intervention did what it was supposed to do, and that was stabilize the economy, which it has done.

All joking aside, do you think that it was largely responsible for some stability or would it have occurred anyway?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Right.... so we are agreeing.... the oligarchs are not laissez-faire capitalism. And to give the 'green shoots' of new businesses a chance to succeed, don't we need to cut down these powermongers to size? What are we arguing about? I think we're saying the same things. It seems your beef is not with government, or regulation, or regulation of huge businesses. Your beef is with excessive regulation strangling small businesses. I agree with you on that. I think if you listen to Obama's speeches on the subject he agrees with you too. Now, to get Congress to do something about it....

You want to see small business flourish? Take healthcare out of the hands of employers, and give it back to the government. Obama's problem is that his current rhetoric does not match what he has said in the past, and what he believes in his heart. Given the folks that surround, support, and advise him, I don't think he has had an epiphany!

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Winning medals means squat for the average Joe's quality of life, it's a sport after all.

But if Australia was at the top of the list, it would be important, wouldn't it?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

All joking aside, do you think that it was largely responsible for some stability or would it have occurred anyway?

Stability would have occurred either way. It's just that the leveling would have happened at a much lower point and quite a bit later.

[scandal 951]

You want to see small business flourish? Take healthcare out of the hands of employers, and give it back to the government. Obama's problem is that his current rhetoric does not match what he has said in the past, and what he believes in his heart. Given the folks that surround, support, and advise him, I don't think he has had an epiphany!

Single payer healthcare model - sign me up, I'll back that.

Is that really your only wish? If the genie could grant you 3 wishes to improve the condition of small business in America, you'd be done after wish #1? Go for it! Take two more bites at the apple!

[Ali G. 37]

All joking aside, do you think that it was largely responsible for some stability or would it have occurred anyway?

Personally I agree with the action both Bush and Obama have taken. They basically acted in time to stop the loss and prevent Depression 2.0. The economy has now stabilized and is on it's slow but bumpy path towards recovery.

The stability would have occurred but maybe in three or four years time, however, the losses would have been massive; with numerous good honest Americans who did nothing to bring this on themselves never recovering. Those folks and their pension funds are the real tragedy here.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Booyah

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You want to see small business flourish? Take healthcare out of the hands of employers, and give it back to the government.

That would be a great approach but it's politically impossible to do.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Oh, okay. You wanted to see the bottom of the abyss. Make that a single trip if you like. I'd rather not accompany you on that one.

I think we are already there, and it happened in spite of the economic stimulus package, of which only a third was spent. All you have to do is look at the BLS numbers to see what happened: Industry shed its excess, and will look to increase its labor force, only when industry regains confidence, and is willing to expand. Government cannot mandate that, despite how many jobs it adds to the public sector.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Personally I agree with the action both Bush and Obama have taken. They basically acted in time to stop the loss and prevent Depression 2.0. The economy has now stabilized and is on it's slow but bumpy path towards recovery.

The stability would have occurred but maybe in three or four years time, however, the losses would have been massive.

Do you think it would it would have taken three or four years? And there is still a good bit of recovery money that hasn't been spent yet. I just question whether it has done as much as it it given credit for. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that it did help and I agree that something needed to be done. The recovery will still be on the slow side, no doubt. It seems that GM is finally getting on the right track, so I think it's good if they survive as a leaner more efficient company. I have a sour taste in my mouth over some of the financial bailouts. Executives running a company into the ground and me paying them a bonus sticks in my throat.

Edit: I agree about the loss of pensions. That would have been a tragedy.

Edited February 21, 2010 by spookyturtle

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Single payer healthcare model - sign me up, I'll back that.

Is that really your only wish? If the genie could grant you 3 wishes to improve the condition of small business in America, you'd be done after wish #1? Go for it! Take two more bites at the apple!

One step at a time! You don't need to change everything at once. Do that one thing first, and see how that works!

[Ali G. 37]

Do you think it would it would have taken three or four years? And there is still a good bit of recovery money that hasn't been spent yet. I just question whether it has done as much as it it given credit for. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that it did help and I agree that something needed to be done. The recovery will still be on the slow side, no doubt. It seems that GM is finally getting on the right track, so I think it's good if they survive as a leaner more efficient company. I have a sour taste in my mouth over some of the financial bailouts. Executives running a company into the ground and me paying them a bonus sticks in my throat.

Edit: I agree about the loss of pensions. That would have been a tragedy.

The financial bailouts were questionable but I understand their intentions. Can you imagine all of these banks started dropping like flies and there was a run on the banks? Hello Depression. The worst thing that could happen is people totally panic and the confidence level drop to depression levels. After all, perception is one of the biggest obstacles to growth of any recession or depression.

Once the economy is on the upswing, I think we need new and responsible regulation. New laws should be enacted to ensure that no honest American that has worked for 45 years should ever have their pension funds wiped out overnight, because of some other c-nt's greed. Lone Ranger here considers such shenanigans as capitalism. Whereas, I consider ###### over your country for a profit as treason; with it being punished accordingly.

In all fairness, you may joke on Australia but they managed to push out their stimulus just in time, and totally avoided this global disaster. Whereas, we lost valuable time debating this here.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Booyah

[spookyturtle 9,466]

The financial bailouts were questionable but I understand their intentions. Can you imagine all of these banks started dropping like flies and there was a run on the banks? Hello Depression. The worst thing that could happen is people totally panic and the confidence level drop to depression levels. After all, perception is one of the biggest obstacles to growth of any recession or depression.

Once the economy is on the upswing, I think we need new and responsible regulation. New laws should be enacted to ensure that no honest American that has worked for 45 years should ever have their pension funds wiped out overnight, because of some other c-nt's greed. Lone Ranger here considers such shenanigans as capitalism. Whereas, I consider ###### over your country for a profit as treason; with it being punished accordingly.

In all fairness, you may joke but Australia but they managed to push out their stimulus just in time, and totally avoided this global disaster. Whereas, we lost valuable time debating this here.

What bothers me about the banks is they gave loans in amounts that people were not really qualified to repay. There was greed on the part of the banks and the consumer. You had people living in houses that they could not afford. Maybe 350K was doable, but 550K was not, but they wanted the nicer place and the banks said yes. And now we all pay the price. And then the execs get millions in bonus money for fvcking things up. If you worked at 7-11 and screwed up by $100, you'd be fired. These clowns got a reward.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Governments permit corporations to form, and it that sense the government has the right to regulate them. However, remember, most of the corporate abuses of the last five centuries, were done in the name of the government that formed them. In America alone, you need only to look at the Railroad Moguls of the 19th century, to see such examples. In the twentieth century, oil companies, power companies, and defense contractors were too much in bed together, to even consider that as any form of laissez-faire capitalism.

Ah yes, government is the poison that corrupts...not power or greed.

[Ali G. 37]

What bothers me about the banks is they gave loans in amounts that people were not really qualified to repay. There was greed on the part of the banks and the consumer. You had people living in houses that they could not afford. Maybe 350K was doable, but 550K was not, but they wanted the nicer place and the banks said yes. And now we all pay the price. And then the execs get millions in bonus money for fvcking things up. If you worked at 7-11 and screwed up by $100, you'd be fired. These clowns got a reward.

You can blame Matt and co for that. They call this unregulated lunacy the free market. As you said, lose $100 at 7-11 and you're gone, lose a billion in NYC and you are promoted.

I personally think two tests should be conducted to determine whether and what a firm can invest in.

1. Is it their own money and are the people invested in any funds aware of what these firms are doing with the funds? For example, if we deposit $100K in a bank, they should not touch this money or invest it in anything remotely risky unless we give them explicit permission to do so. Furthermore, retirement funds by default should be in should ultra low risk investments, unless the account holder specifically opts in for the chance of higher returns, but with the risk of losing more. - This is what Australia does... Just saying...

2. No business or fund should be large enough to fail that it can take down the entire economy. It's because of this that these bastards were able to hold us for ransom with a bail us or you are ######. We the people should never be blackmailed by any organization period. Much like a building, no single point should ever be critical enough to able to take down the entire structure..

Edited February 21, 2010 by Booyah

[mawilson 2,133]

You want to cite where Obama said the Stimulus money was going to stop job losses outright or stop the Recession itself?

The lies are highlighted in red.

State of the Union speech, February 2009:

"And tonight, I am grateful that this Congress delivered, and pleased to say that the American Recovery

and Reinvestment Act is now law.

Over the next two years, this plan will save or create 3.5 million jobs. More than 90% of these jobs will

be in the private sector - jobs rebuilding our roads and bridges; constructing wind turbines and solar panels;

laying broadband and expanding mass transit.

...

I'm proud that we passed the recovery plan free of earmarks, and I want to pass a budget next year that

ensures that each dollar we spend reflects only our most important national priorities.

Yesterday, I held a fiscal summit where I pledged to cut the deficit in half by the end of my first term

in office. My administration has also begun to go line by line through the federal budget in order to

eliminate wasteful and ineffective programs. As you can imagine, this is a process that will take some

time. But we're starting with the biggest lines. We have already identified two trillion dollars in savings

over the next decade."