I'm "African American"

[FortLaudy 10]

As you know, that's not necessarily true. There is rarely one 'best' candidate. On paper most candidates for professional positions will appear to be similar (at least those who get passed the initial screening process). The remaining candidates are interviewed to see who would 'fit into' the company best. If every time the 'best fit' is a 'white male' the company doesn't reflect the multi-cultural society within which it is operating and one can certainly question the process by which 'best fit' is determined.

Ok, so I want to see a whole lot more white & asian people on BET, I am insisting that they reflect the multi-cultural society within which they operate

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

that's your opinion, the ones that have more should give more right, spread the wealth or something like that?

People should be hired based on merit, nothing else.

Noone here is saying that they shouldn't be hired on merit. I know I'm not saying that.

[DJ and BJ 0]

I specifically spoke of eliminating the need for welfare by requiring education for young people. You are aginst education for young people? welfare will never go away until we eliminate the NEED for it. Just like illegal aliens will never go away until we eliminate the economic incentive for them to be here. You can build fences, have amnesty, whatever, it does not matter. If there is an economic demand for illegal aliens, they will be here. Period. Welfare is an economic reality. The people who are generational welfare receivers simply cannot make as much as they get from welfare in any job they can qulaify for because their education SUCKS because no one ever encouraged or required them to get an education. Highly educated people simply are not on welfare for multiple generations. the two conditions are mutually exclusive, completely and without exception. People on welfare in my state collect more than $700 per week in benefits and cash for a family of three. So how, exactly, does an un-wed mother of two children who dropped out of high school make $700 per week (after tax!!!!) and THEN have to pay for medical insurance, deductibles, co-pays which she gets now free? She needs to earn something like $1200 per week GROSS to match that and cover her deductions for medical insurance. How can she do that? It isn't possible, not even in her wildest dreams. How does a person like that get a job paying $62,400 per year? Given the circumstances the SYSTEM put her in, welfare is the BEST she can do! We have institutionalized welfare slaves and thrown an economic noose around a couple million people. Like I said, the KKK never had so much absolute control of so many people. If you manhandled a woman like that in Alabama they would call it RAPE!

The way to END welfare is to end the NEED for welfare. The way to end the NEED for welfare, 100% guaranteed, is to provide education for ALL people and require education for all people. the way to end Affirmative action is to educate people. I would think you would be HAPPY if welfare and affirmative action died for lack of interest...would you not? Wouldn't you be HAPPY if people did not need welfare because they could make much more money and live much better in gainful employment? I believe they can do it with education. I believe they can overcome any obstacle if they have incentive and a path they can see. I believe they can ignore peer pressure if they can look ahead to a a future that is not being on welfare, diabetes, prison, obesity, drug addiction, or being killed in a drive-by at age 17. (you think cheap, addictive crack cocaine and crank was a fluke? A coincidence? That stuff is MAN-MADE, who do think made it? It is another poison to cripple a race and keep them where "they belong")

I believe in people. Racists do not. I say they CAN, racists say they CAN'T. Racists say "give them a hand-out" I say "Give them a hand UP". Racists say "you need us" I say "you don't need anyone but yourself" Racists say "we will feed you and house you and care for you like a pet monkey" I say "I will teach you to feed yourself, build your own house, and care for yourself so you don't need to be anyone's pet"

^5 to this post, and the rest of the free thinkers in this thread. Its good to see that there are sane, educated, and humble people out here...that understand why we as a PEOPLE are in a certain position, and why things will remain the same.

You are absolutely right. The system of inequalities was created for the very reason of keeping the rich rich, and the poor poor...if everyone had the tools needed, education, opportunity and the means, then these programs would not be needed...I'd like to see the day that happens...but hey, we live in a capitalistic society...it's a dead dream...

[FortLaudy 10]

I specifically spoke of eliminating the need for welfare by requiring education for young people. You are aginst education for young people? welfare will never go away until we eliminate the NEED for it. Just like illegal aliens will never go away until we eliminate the economic incentive for them to be here. You can build fences, have amnesty, whatever, it does not matter. If there is an economic demand for illegal aliens, they will be here. Period. Welfare is an economic reality. The people who are generational welfare receivers simply cannot make as much as they get from welfare in any job they can qulaify for because their education SUCKS because no one ever encouraged or required them to get an education. Highly educated people simply are not on welfare for multiple generations. the two conditions are mutually exclusive, completely and without exception. People on welfare in my state collect more than $700 per week in benefits and cash for a family of three. So how, exactly, does an un-wed mother of two children who dropped out of high school make $700 per week (after tax!!!!) and THEN have to pay for medical insurance, deductibles, co-pays which she gets now free? She needs to earn something like $1200 per week GROSS to match that and cover her deductions for medical insurance. How can she do that? It isn't possible, not even in her wildest dreams. How does a person like that get a job paying $62,400 per year? Given the circumstances the SYSTEM put her in, welfare is the BEST she can do! We have institutionalized welfare slaves and thrown an economic noose around a couple million people. Like I said, the KKK never had so much absolute control of so many people. If you manhandled a woman like that in Alabama they would call it RAPE!

The way to END welfare is to end the NEED for welfare. The way to end the NEED for welfare, 100% guaranteed, is to provide education for ALL people and require education for all people. the way to end Affirmative action is to educate people. I would think you would be HAPPY if welfare and affirmative action died for lack of interest...would you not? Wouldn't you be HAPPY if people did not need welfare because they could make much more money and live much better in gainful employment? I believe they can do it with education. I believe they can overcome any obstacle if they have incentive and a path they can see. I believe they can ignore peer pressure if they can look ahead to a a future that is not being on welfare, diabetes, prison, obesity, drug addiction, or being killed in a drive-by at age 17. (you think cheap, addictive crack cocaine and crank was a fluke? A coincidence? That stuff is MAN-MADE, who do think made it? It is another poison to cripple a race and keep them where "they belong")

I believe in people. Racists do not. I say they CAN, racists say they CAN'T. Racists say "give them a hand-out" I say "Give them a hand UP". Racists say "you need us" I say "you don't need anyone but yourself" Racists say "we will feed you and house you and care for you like a pet monkey" I say "I will teach you to feed yourself, build your own house, and care for yourself so you don't need to be anyone's pet"

You are right again Gary, about providing education one can always argue that there are those who are not interested. Requiring everyone to be educated, awesome idea. You drop out of school you don't get any government assistance, great idea !

[DJ and BJ 0]

Ok, so I want to see a whole lot more white & asian people on BET, I am insisting that they reflect the multi-cultural society within which they operate

White people are already everywhere in the media. Most black people I know don't even watch the mess you believe is for 'black' people (BET).

Asians and natives are also amongst the discriminated and underrepresented persons in this country. When was the last time you have even seen an asian or native in a major TV movie, or talk show? Or on the radio station? And I"m not talking the bull ####### with martial arts movies that stereotypically represent them...or old cowboy movies...

You really need to pick up a book and read. It is truly fundamental. Just as you say some have no excuse for wanting 'AA' to work in their best interest, there is no excuse for you to be as ignorant as you are in this age of technology. Take off the blinders and educate yourself. You should be capable, if not, then it's true as the saying goes, ignorance is bliss.

I suppose you like all the attention that you are getting...negative or not...truly pathetic. I almost feel sorry for you. However my best advice to you is, if you want to get a free education, go attend an HBCU...(historically black college/university) However, I suppose you would say that it isn't good enough for you...and still find any reason to complain...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I specifically spoke of eliminating the need for welfare by requiring education for young people. You are aginst education for young people? welfare will never go away until we eliminate the NEED for it. Just like illegal aliens will never go away until we eliminate the economic incentive for them to be here. You can build fences, have amnesty, whatever, it does not matter. If there is an economic demand for illegal aliens, they will be here. Period. Welfare is an economic reality. The people who are generational welfare receivers simply cannot make as much as they get from welfare in any job they can qulaify for because their education SUCKS because no one ever encouraged or required them to get an education. Highly educated people simply are not on welfare for multiple generations. the two conditions are mutually exclusive, completely and without exception. People on welfare in my state collect more than $700 per week in benefits and cash for a family of three. So how, exactly, does an un-wed mother of two children who dropped out of high school make $700 per week (after tax!!!!) and THEN have to pay for medical insurance, deductibles, co-pays which she gets now free? She needs to earn something like $1200 per week GROSS to match that and cover her deductions for medical insurance. How can she do that? It isn't possible, not even in her wildest dreams. How does a person like that get a job paying $62,400 per year? Given the circumstances the SYSTEM put her in, welfare is the BEST she can do! We have institutionalized welfare slaves and thrown an economic noose around a couple million people. Like I said, the KKK never had so much absolute control of so many people. If you manhandled a woman like that in Alabama they would call it RAPE!

The way to END welfare is to end the NEED for welfare. The way to end the NEED for welfare, 100% guaranteed, is to provide education for ALL people and require education for all people. the way to end Affirmative action is to educate people. I would think you would be HAPPY if welfare and affirmative action died for lack of interest...would you not? Wouldn't you be HAPPY if people did not need welfare because they could make much more money and live much better in gainful employment? I believe they can do it with education. I believe they can overcome any obstacle if they have incentive and a path they can see. I believe they can ignore peer pressure if they can look ahead to a a future that is not being on welfare, diabetes, prison, obesity, drug addiction, or being killed in a drive-by at age 17. (you think cheap, addictive crack cocaine and crank was a fluke? A coincidence? That stuff is MAN-MADE, who do think made it? It is another poison to cripple a race and keep them where "they belong")

I believe in people. Racists do not. I say they CAN, racists say they CAN'T. Racists say "give them a hand-out" I say "Give them a hand UP". Racists say "you need us" I say "you don't need anyone but yourself" Racists say "we will feed you and house you and care for you like a pet monkey" I say "I will teach you to feed yourself, build your own house, and care for yourself so you don't need to be anyone's pet"

No Gary, I am not against education (thanks for twisting my words - I will do my level best to continue to twist yours, seeing as you like it so much). I am however against crackpot plans pulled out of someone's backside that suggest that the need for welfare can be eliminated merely by tying it to education. This cannot be done without first addressing inequalities in the education system - as it would unfairly disadvantage people from lower performing school districts.

[FortLaudy 10]

White people are already everywhere in the media. Most black people I know don't even watch the mess you believe is for 'black' people (BET).

Asians and natives are also amongst the discriminated and underrepresented persons in this country. When was the last time you have even seen an asian or native in a major TV movie, or talk show? Or on the radio station? And I"m not talking the bull ####### with martial arts movies that stereotypically represent them...or old cowboy movies...

You really need to pick up a book and read. It is truly fundamental. Just as you say some have no excuse for wanting 'AA' to work in their best interest, there is no excuse for you to be as ignorant as you are in this age of technology. Take off the blinders and educate yourself. You should be capable, if not, then it's true as the saying goes, ignorance is bliss.

I suppose you like all the attention that you are getting...negative or not...truly pathetic. I almost feel sorry for you. However my best advice to you is, if you want to get a free education, go attend an HBCU...(historically black college/university) However, I suppose you would say that it isn't good enough for you...and still find any reason to complain...

I don't conplain about anything, my life is fabulous, thank you very much, I don't "like getting attention" on an immigration website, I get paid for "getting attention" in real life I feel strongly about certain things only because I have everything I have today because I worked hard and never received a free penny from anyone since I was about 17. This is a section of the website where we all get to share our different views and opinions, I think that's great and I am definetely learning a whole lot from other people and how they think, this website is awesome, there is no need though to write personal insults and think you've won an argument/debate.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You are right again Gary, about providing education one can always argue that there are those who are not interested. Requiring everyone to be educated, awesome idea. You drop out of school you don't get any government assistance, great idea !

I'm sure that sounds great and you and Gary can clap yourselves on the back for single-handedly saving society over the internet.

Yet what I am wondering about is what happens to a kid from an abusive background who gets into trouble with the law, kicked out of his home, and as a result falls behind in his studies and doesn't graduate. Did that kid have as good a chance at life as the kid from the rich, middle-class family who didn't want for anything?

So you take that problem kid and you tell him that because he didn't graduate high school that he cannot have any sort of government assistance. Sounds like the fast track to a life of crime doesn't it...

You see, this system you've cooked up in your little brains sounds great until you have to apply it to real life.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Gene Hunt

[The_Dude 1,142]

But people do it, and have done it, shall we blame slavery for every other business success story in the world?

Do you know how to actually run a business, or all that goes into setting one up? Do you know how much money you would need, or the success failure rates of new business'? It really isn't as simple as you would like to think.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

^5 to this post, and the rest of the free thinkers in this thread. Its good to see that there are sane, educated, and humble people out here...that understand why we as a PEOPLE are in a certain position, and why things will remain the same.

You are absolutely right. The system of inequalities was created for the very reason of keeping the rich rich, and the poor poor...if everyone had the tools needed, education, opportunity and the means, then these programs would not be needed...I'd like to see the day that happens...but hey, we live in a capitalistic society...it's a dead dream...

It may never happen, but not because it is a dead dream. It will be kiled by the racists that need to keep some people as second class citizens, dependent on them. All these people, Blacks and illegal aliens serve a purpose to the powers tha be, so they will not change it, because they do not want to. Which politician would benefiot from ending illegal immigration? the Republican catering to business that wants cheap labor it can exploit and treat like ####### and they can't complain? (Illegal immigrants are far cheaper for business than slaves ever were, they are the modern, low cost, limited liability slaves) The Democrat catering to the hispanics dependent on Democrat programs? That subsequently vote for Democrats? Those politicians? A heavy TAX on each illegal alien, enough to bankrupt a company for hiring them and cause the companies assets to be seixed for paying tax would end the economic incentive for illegal aliens and set the slaves free.

The Democrats held the slaves and fought a bloody war to keep them. It didn;t work. The Democrats kept them confined to low paying jobs and the wrong side of the tracks with poll taxes and Jim Crow laws and fire hoses (and a hemp rope when needed) The Democrats founded the KKK and terrorized the former slaves and never allowed them the chance to get ahead. Republicans forced the civil rights and voting rights act on the Democrats who filibustered mightily against it. The next year, we were introduced to the war on poverty. No longer able to oppress black people by LAW, the Democrats (before they had a chance to get established in society) enslaved them again with welfare programs, AFDC, WIC, subsidized housing...the democrats running Chicago built high rise slums on one side of the Dan Ryan Expry which may as well have been a moat filled with alligators! The flood of illegal aliens, coincidentally (???) began in 1965 with relaxation of laws which allowed them to flood in, taking the palce of the former underclass and replacing them with other human servants.

There has always been an underclass in this country. They are calculated to exist, they are subsidized, thay are, in fact MANUFACTURED. Poverty, as such, does not exist in this country, it cannot. Not in a natural state, simply isn't possible. The chance of that died with rural electrification and telephones. Poverty, in this country, has to be manufactured. Poverty in this country is an industry, it employs hundreds of thousands of people, it is a multi-billion dollar business. You may as well try to shut down the pharmacy business, or the fast food business, or movie theatres.

Who does it employ? Government workers for the most part, or private foundations dependent on government funding. This creates bloated government budgets, cushy offices, junkets around the world to study poverty. Power for beaurocrats who need people on their payroll to justify their jobs (none of THEM are affirmative action jobs) So you expect government workers to implement programs to put themsleves out of work?

Even the districting of congressional seats is specifcally designed to minimize the impact of 12% of the population. How? simple. By drawing very distinct lines to carefully dissect the country into "safe" black and white districts, it assures that the blacks will always be a small minority in the House of Representatives and white congressman will not need to care what balck people think. Black people are set up to vote for balcks. whites are set up to vote for whites. Blacks can never hope for more than to caucus with someone else and be the "spoiler", yet evry time they re-dra the lines the blacks fight for this silly dissection again...because they have been told that white people cannot represnt blacks. BS. The powers that be do not WANT the white guys to have to worry about the blacks and allow the majority whites to run the country without a care for what black people think and all the time telling the black people they are doing them a "favor" and calling anyone against it a racist!!!!! Hispanics have more pull in congress than blacks. Why? Because not only are there safe Hispanic districts but they make up a sizable portion of the population (not a majority) in many areas. So they have the attention of a lot of white congressman also. The white congressman from west Texas cannot very well ignore 25% of his contituents. The white congressman from Evanston can easily ignore the few blacks in his district.

I hate to say it is a dead dream, but it is defintely an uphill battle

[Danno 1,228]

The funny thing about this is, these Liberals who are so convinced Blacks need help getting past those -mean, old, White, gate keepers.

One wonders what little hamlet do they live in?

Every major city I have lived in is so dominated by Blacks in public service jobs one might suggest white-folk need some help getting hired.

Not long ago I went to court for a traffic situation and I was the only white person in the dayum building... or so it seemed. The Judge, The bailiff the DA, the security guy, the guy at the info both, hell every body was Black.

(Not that I am complaining I was treated fair enough)

Blacks have been in these "hiring and firing" rolls for decades now in places all across the country, in city after city, some more so than others but from Phili to Altanta from Detroit to New Orleans it's the same thing.

Talk about a "Good ole boys club", it's the closest thing we have to one in america.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I'm sure that sounds great and you and Gary can clap yourselves on the back for single-handedly saving society over the internet.

Yet what I am wondering about is what happens to a kid from an abusive background who gets into trouble with the law, kicked out of his home, and as a result falls behind in his studies and doesn't graduate. Did that kid have as good a chance at life as the kid from the rich, middle-class family who didn't want for anything?

So you take that problem kid and you tell him that because he didn't graduate high school that he cannot have any sort of government assistance. Sounds like the fast track to a life of crime doesn't it...

You see, this system you've cooked up in your little brains sounds great until you have to apply it to real life.

If you expect me to invent a system to make sure no one falls into the gutter or makes mistakes...it isn't going to happen. I think the system would be beneficial for millions more people. One of our most cherished rights is the right to FAIL. Without it there is no chance of success.

It is a simple fact that people on welfare are not well educated. I am not speaking of the IT professional that is laid off and collects unemployment for a few months, that is not welfare, he isn't there for long. I am talking about welfare, generational welfare, it simply does not exist amoung the educated. The two are plainly mutually exclusive. Educating people, requiring all people to get a higher level of education, will eliminate the need for welfare. Yeah, there will be the occasional unfortunate kid, and we, as a government, will be far better able to handle it when he is the exception and not the rule. This si just simple basic cause/effect realtionship. Lack of education causes lack of independence.

I simply do not understand how you could possibly be against education for ALL people or think it would not be the solution to alot of our problems.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If you expect me to invent a system to make sure no one falls into the gutter or makes mistakes...it isn't going to happen. I think the system would be beneficial for millions more people. One of our most cherished rights is the right to FAIL. Without it there is no chance of success.

It is a simple fact that people on welfare are not well educated. I am not speaking of the IT professional that is laid off and collects unemployment for a few months, that is not welfare, he isn't there for long. I am talking about welfare, generational welfare, it simply does not exist amoung the educated. The two are plainly mutually exclusive. Educating people, requiring all people to get a higher level of education, will eliminate the need for welfare. Yeah, there will be the occasional unfortunate kid, and we, as a government, will be far better able to handle it when he is the exception and not the rule. This si just simple basic cause/effect realtionship. Lack of education causes lack of independence.

I simply do not understand how you could possibly be against education for ALL people or think it would not be the solution to alot of our problems.

I'm not. I'm against poorly thought out plans worthy of Wile-E-Coyote

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Do you know how to actually run a business, or all that goes into setting one up? Do you know how much money you would need, or the success failure rates of new business'? It really isn't as simple as you would like to think.

Actually, yes. I have, and do and have been quite successful at it, after a couple of failures. I am no Bill Gates, but no one is having a tag sale for me either and my kids will ALL have master's degrees so they can one up the old man with his stupid ol' BSME. Two already have them, a third is well on his way, the fourth will start in a year and half at age 16.My wife is working on her second master's and somehow I find a way to pay for it all. I would like to see the government pay for education rather than welfare. I suspect education is cheaper.

That said, I didn't know ANY of that stuff at age 16 and had I dropped out of high school I would never have learned and may be on welfare right now. I am not on welfare because I can do better for myself and my family with my skills and knowledge that I learned in school. I was forbidden by my parents to drop out under threat of losing all sorts of privileges (driver's license being the most terrifying)

And if my record is any indication the chances of failing are 66%. My first two business crashed and burned, quickly and mercifully, thank you, the third is doing fine. The question is not whether you will fail...you WILL. The question is whether or not you learn from it and do it again and again until you get it right. Or at least satisfactory. Most small business people never get wealthy, but hey there is something to be said for having your own business and making your own way. Certainly that is not for everyone and there is nothing wrong with a good, productive wage paying job either. education can get you there either way. Wouldn't you agree?

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I'm not. I'm against poorly thought out plans worthy of Wile-E-Coyote

Gene

I gave a reasoned argument for a plan to improve education and what I believe would be the benefit of educating all people. Can you give me a reasoned argument why you would be against that or why you classify the benefits of education with a cartoon character. It is something that I am interested in and really believe deserves more than one line responses, maye I am wrong and this is not the place to have serious discussion, pardon me if that is the case.