Turkish girl, 16, 'buried alive by her father because she had friendships with boys'

[_Simpson_ 250]

The problem is that the US and formerly Europe have extremely questionable history with regard to their treatment of the Middle East region. It's directly because of the US and the UK (or more specifically, because of our oil interests) that Iran has the government that it does. We are directly responsible for the chain of events that led to the 1979 revolution.

Exactly what basis do we have for taking a moral high ground in our dealings with those nations? We don't have any credibility!

I disagree with about everything you said here and that is a whole other debate for a different thread.

[_Simpson_ 250]

I'm sorry, this is where I'm gonna have to leave and say good night and good luck

you only quoted part of what I said leading one to a whole different conclusion to what I was actually saying. Very dishonest move there Shani.

He is what I said in its entire context -

of course not, I have tried to be clear about this and I have said countless times, "reasonable measures". I do think that every life is worth saving and we should never give up and continue looking for answers.

what got us into this situation was the fact that a majority of the people here believed that there was means to make WMDs in Irag and after 9/11 we werent willing to let Saddam take his issues to us. Many stood by the argument that we must not invade unless our security is at risk and thats why Bush had to sell the whole WMD story. I think when it comes to outing dictators that you have to use great caution and have the support of the people whose life are being ruined by the dictator and the support of your own people.

[Peikko 1,575]

I disagree with about everything you said here and that is a whole other debate for a different thread.

Oh dear. Really, you need to read some historical context.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Oh dear. Really, you need to read some historical context.

I dont agree that we shouldnt be able to address our concerns in the middle east because of our history in the middle east. You have to agree that is a ignorant statment. I also dont agree with his statement that

US and formerly Europe have extremely questionable history with regard to their treatment of the Middle East region

Things need to be put in context, like I said its for another thread.

Edited February 6, 2010 by _Simpson_

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I disagree with about everything you said here and that is a whole other debate for a different thread.

How is it a separate debate when you're talking about taking political action against other countries?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I dont agree that we shouldnt be able to address our concerns in the middle east because of our history in the middle east. You have to agree that is a ignorant statment. I also dont agree with his statement that

Things need to be put in context, like I said its for another thread.

The context is that we don't have any credibility with those countries, and we can't exactly pretend that our motives are humanitarian.

[_Simpson_ 250]

The context is that we don't have any credibility with those countries, and we can't exactly pretend that our motives are humanitarian.

Right because its all about oil. Lets pretend we have a perfect history when it comes to the middle east, do you really think they would be more willing to accept our ideas, the answers is no. They wont even listen to there own people. That said lets pretend our history is as bad as you would like people to believe, are we never allowed to address these sort of govs, are we just to sit here and doing nothing because you believe we screwed up in the past?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Let me save us a bunch of time and ask you this:

Who put the Shah of Iran back into power in 1953?

If you don't, then it might be a good idea to find out.

And yes, it was about oil.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Let me save us a bunch of time and ask you this:

Who put the Shah of Iran back into power in 1953?

If you don't, then it might be a good idea to find out.

And yes, it was about oil.

Its not all about oil in the middle east. According to you because of our history you think we shouldnt be vocal about our concerns we have today.

I have to go

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Its not all about oil in the middle east. According to you because of our history you think we shouldnt be vocal about our concerns we have today.

I have to go

What I told you about Iran is the truth. Britain and the America didn't want the Iranians to nationalize their oil industry, so we engineered the overthrow of the then government, the same government we installed in its place was overthrown in the 1979 revolution.

And no - I'm not saying we shouldn't be vocal about these things. Leaving aside your belief in manifest destiny and the fundamental, never-to-be-questioned goodness of the United States, what I am questioning is why anyone we criticize should take us seriously on the human rights abuses in other countries - especially what we've resorted to over the last 10 years.

The United States and the powers of Europe are not motivated purely by humanitarianism. To believe otherwise is naive.

[DrissandAmy4ever 0]

Because ignoring people's cultural norms and telling them how they should behave has been shown to be a really effective strategy, as history so beautifully illustrates.

AMEN!!!!

[DrissandAmy4ever 0]

look...here is my take on this...there is no doubt about it..what these people did to their daughter is absolutely wrong. of course we are going to have issues with it. If you want to fix it...move to Turkey...become a citizen and make change (good luck with that). My husband is a muslim and even he agrees its wrong what they did to this girl. However, its not for us to go sticking our nose in their business. That's the problem with the United States. We always want to be the hero. Dont get me wrong, I love my country and am very proud to be an American. However, we need to take a step back and let these countries live their own lives, with their own rules. How far do you think another country would get if they came here trying to make change? Not far at all!!

[NickD 203]

Still semi-okay if these guys want to murder their own daughters. But if they even attempt to murder my daughters, I ""MAY" be slightly annoyed.

No one wasn't even the bit slightly upset when Stalin murdered 25 million of his own people, but got annoyed when they started killing South Koreans. But praised when he was killing Germans.

It's all crazy, the world is crazy, get use to it. Perhaps a repeat of the 10th century Crusades? That didn't change anything either.

[Fandango 1,440]

One thing that fascinates me about this discussion is that the same posters debating a murder by people identified as Muslim by association with the majority faith of the country do not attach a stigma to a faith shared by non-Muslims who murder their family members in the US. Everyday there are countless articles about parents killing their children or SO, and, while these are condemned, no credence is given to religion in these killings, but it is assumed when Muslims kill. That assumption taints all Muslims as casual potential murderers, or, makes them less than devout because they don't kill, as their faith must call them to do. It also assumes that we can do what you fail to do yourselves - stop murder.

I think it's a bit disingenuous to imply that there is not a rampant problem among the Muslim community. Honor killings/suicide bombers/the way women are treated as second class citizens...come on now.

[NickD 203]

Many biblical scholars have pointed that out with the old, new testaments where most of the Koran has been derived from with some strange ideas added. Feel they were intentionally changed to put down women, and sure as hell, reads that way. Eve is the sole cause of all our problems today and women weren't even allowed in the temples.

On this basis along, feel all these books are BS. Probably why they use the bible to swear in politicians, they know it's BS thus giving them the right to be BSer's too.

Take this lightly.