All-American Basketball Alliance - for white Americans only

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Yeah yeah yeah. And I gave my unvarnished opinion too.

Don't like it - stick it.

Back at ya, butt stick it farther.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Brilliant. Now that's settled, back to topic?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Why bother with the topic? It's just a rehash of how poor non-Whites must be protected from Whites who want to segregate themselves, as if they are tracking down minorities to hurt them. It's bad to say let them segregate, who cares? No! We must all make them conform to pc , , , blah, blah, blah.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Sofiyya

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As a white person, I have never once, ever felt the need to celebrate, recognize or identify myself by race. Its a meaningless concept, and for me at least my nationality is more important as an identifier than being white.

Consequently, I am suspicious of any white person who feels that their "Whiteness" is something that needs to be celebrated merely on its own merits. It simply isn't necessary and 9 times out of 10 the people doing it are doing it for dubious reasons - as Mr "Fundamental Basketball" is doing.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

As a white person, I have never once, ever felt the need to celebrate, recognize or identify myself by race. Its a meaningless concept, and for me at least my nationality is more important as an identifier than being white.

Consequently, I am suspicious of any white person who feels that their "Whiteness" is something that needs to be celebrated merely on its own merits. It simply isn't necessary and 9 times out of 10 the people doing it are doing it for dubious reasons - as Mr "Fundamental Basketball" is doing.

You have the luxury of not having to think of your race as your identity. I would like to do the same, but I cannot with Whites constantly banging the bigotry drum. I, as a non-White person am tired of being classified and identified by my "otherness" by Whites, and being chastised if I'm not offended by the least little scent of racism. Non-Whites are well aware that racism and other negative "isms" exist and they won't ever be eradicated. By giving so much weight to them, they become more powerful than they are and, by that, become more of an issue than they are. And, I can't ever just be.

[Peikko 1,575]

Brilliant, that's it! You are victimized because of all those white people who feel sorry for you

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As I said, I'm not clamoring for this guy to be pilloried or jailed for what he's doing - I just don't think the reasons he cites for doing it are honest.

I expect most others are of the same opinion and so his "White league" won't be successful or long lived.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Brilliant, that's it! You are victimized because of all those white people who feel sorry for you

Hmmm that's not what I read in this thread. As far as I remember, the bulk of the discussion was on refuting Danno's assertion that questionable double standards exist because the perception of a White race based organization Vs. a Black one is not equal, nor is there equal social acceptedness (but apparently there should be :-/).

One can only hold such an opinion by being unaware or refusing to acknowledge how those organizations came about.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Gene Hunt

[Peikko 1,575]

It's pointless, Sof is determined to be the victim of not being a victim of white guilt...or something.

Hmmm that's not what I read in this thread. As far as I remember, the bulk of the discussion was on refuting Danno's assertion that questionable double standards exist because the perception of a White race based organization Vs. a Black one is not equal.

One can only hold such an opinion by being unaware or refusing to acknowledge how those organizations came about.

That's what I read, but Sofi obviously read something completely different, hence getting all worked up about how she's fed up of being pittied by white people who want to put non whites in a petting zoo.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It's pointless, Sof is determined to be the victim of not being a victim of white guilt...or something.

That's what I read, but Sofi obviously read something completely different, hence getting all worked up about how she's fed up of being pittied by white people who want to put non whites in a petting zoo.

You guys get "worked up", but it's because you can't control what other people do. I don't care what they do, but you want me to. When you hear that, you hyperdrive into hyperbole, as you just did.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Once again, I have no desire to control what this guy does. I just think his reasons are suspect and I gave the reasons why.

"Worked up" eh?

[The_Dude 1,142]

You are stepping in it again.

I have not said anything to defend this organization, I have only talked about this subject in a general way.

Would you call a Hispanic Fishing club or Hispanic soccer league also racists?

We all know what "ilk" means, the definition isn't the problem it's your over use of the term... which implies a Stunted Vocab.

You're exaggeration is laughable danno, as is your disingenuous argument here. I don't really think anyone is arguing the right to operate this league. They have their constitutional right to organize, just as the klan and skinheads do. The entire premise behind the league is laughable, plain and simple. They want to focus on the "fundamentals" as opposed to "street ball"? Even you can decipher that. On a literal standpoint, what basketball fan would honestly rather see a bunch of guys shooting layups and mid-ranged jumpshots? We already have that, it's called the WNBA, and it is a struggling league. Just because they can make the league doesn't mean they aren't racist or arseholes, and you comparing them to the NAACP or congressional black caucus is duplicitous at best.

[Danno 1,228]

Hmmm that's not what I read in this thread. As far as I remember, the bulk of the discussion was on refuting Danno's assertion that questionable double standards exist because the perception of a White race based organization Vs. a Black one is not equal, nor is there equal social acceptedness (but apparently there should be :-/).

One can only hold such an opinion by being unaware or refusing to acknowledge how those organizations came about.

I can only conclude you are living in the past.

Sure we can all appreciate how and why the NAACP came about but Hunt, this is 2010.

There are new groups being formed all the time, by minorities (who aren't even minorities where they live), these groups are centered on BLACK, HISPANIC, JEWISH, ASIAN ETC.

These people forming these groups often times were not even born in this country, they nor their parents have ever seen a jim crow law.

These people starting these Associations which are centered around ethnic or racial identity might have in fact benefited from job preferences, free education grants or any number of advantages as perhaps their parents did as well.

THis is 2010 how long are you keep going to the well of "past wrongs" to water your unequal treatment of all people?

As I have said before, I see nothing wrong with these people forming groups, with others they hold a commonality with.

You believe the vast majority of these groups are wholesome and have merit.... unless it is white people doing the same thing, they you automatically assume it must be cloaked in a desire to bring back slavery.

HUNT it's 2010 now, your viewpoint might have had some weight in yesteryear but your position that most minorities in these organizations are 80 year old Blacks.... and were at Selma are retarded.

IN my view of AMERICA, WE hold all peoples to the same standard, Afford all people the same rights.

[Danno 1,228]

You're exaggeration is laughable danno, as is your disingenuous argument here. I don't really think anyone is arguing the right to operate this league. They have their constitutional right to organize, just as the klan and skinheads do. The entire premise behind the league is laughable, plain and simple. They want to focus on the "fundamentals" as opposed to "street ball"? Even you can decipher that. On a literal standpoint, what basketball fan would honestly rather see a bunch of guys shooting layups and mid-ranged jumpshots? We already have that, it's called the WNBA, and it is a struggling league. Just because they can make the league doesn't mean they aren't racist or arseholes, and you comparing them to the NAACP or congressional black caucus is duplicitous at best.

Why you insist on talking about basketball is beyond me.

If you can't... or don't want to move the conversation beyond First Base, just say so.

I asked, is it racists for others to form Hispanic fishing clubs or Hispanic soccer leagues for example?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Oh dear... where to begin

I can only conclude you are living in the past.

Sure we can all appreciate how and why the NAACP came about but Hunt, this is 2010.

THis is 2010 how long are you keep going to the well of "past wrongs" to water your unequal treatment of all people?

It can be 2011 for all that that matters. What is blatantly obvious, and which you are choosing to ignore, is that by numerous measures certain minority groups do not hold equality to the rest of society. If that weren't the case then surely it wouldn't have taken until 2008 for the US to elect the first black president. Nor indeed would certain minority groups lag far behind others in terms of household income, general education or indeed the likelihood to be part of the prison population.

There are new groups being formed all the time, by minorities (who aren't even minorities where they live), these groups are centered on BLACK, HISPANIC, JEWISH, ASIAN ETC.

These people forming these groups often times were not even born in this country, they nor their parents have ever seen a jim crow law.

These people starting these Associations which are centered around ethnic or racial identity might have in fact benefited from job preferences, free education grants or any number of advantages as perhaps their parents did as well.

If we can constrain the discussion solely to blacks and whites, the point that should be self-evident is that the inequalities of the past were not that long ago - the 1960s are still within living memory for a lot of people. As I said above, its not even a matter of mere perception, by numerous measures the black population falls behind the rest and unless you're prepared to take a racist view as to why this is, the only reasonable explanation for it is that society is not equal.

As I have said before, I see nothing wrong with these people forming groups, with others they hold a commonality with.

You believe the vast majority of these groups are wholesome and have merit.... unless it is white people doing the same thing, they you automatically assume it must be cloaked in a desire to bring back slavery.

HUNT it's 2010 now, your viewpoint might have had some weight in yesteryear but your position that most minorities in these organizations are 80 year old Blacks.... and were at Selma are retarded.

IN my view of AMERICA, WE hold all peoples to the same standard, Afford all people the same rights.

Not what I said Danno. I have no problem with people forming these kind of groups - but I think they are best assessed on a case by case basis.

You're trying to make a theoretical argument about equivalence fpr all of these kinds of things (hence why I kept telling you that you are ignoring the context) - but at the heart of this particular thread is a story "Whites only" basketball league that is being justified for dubious and entirely racist reasons.