Is the best option naturalization? Duel Citizen? Permanent Resident?

[Rito 28]

Hello Jolly Brits -

I've been reading on this topic but am frankly confused, and was wondering if you'd help me out. I'm engaged to a fine England-born/Northern Ireland resident, and we want certain things. Namely:

1. The ability to move to the UK and all EU states at any point in the future

2. For our potential kids to have the option of going to UK (and EU?) universities at resident rates

My understanding is for 1 & 2 to happen, my fiance should always remain just a permanent resident of the US and never become a US citizen or be naturalized, etc (Am I right so far?). Well, his parents have just told me they might consider moving to the US for a couple years. That would be awesome! I know if my fiance went through the naturalization process he could pull them in, but then we'd lose 1 and 2 above. Would him being some kind of duel citizen help? Or, since his father is a business owner, should we tell him to try the investment visa option instead?

Thanks so much, and enjoy the snow!

- Rito

[Justine+David 218]

The U.S. doesn't recognize dual citizenship, but that doesn't mean that one can't retain UK citizenship as long as the UK is okay with it (which they are). My fiance and I are considering once he gets his citizenship to move to the UK so that I can get UK citizenship and be a dual citizen as well...

If you want your kids to go to the UK for university, they have to live there for something like 3 years in order to qualify if they're UK citizens, which you can as long as you register their births.

What's an investment visa?

[Rito 28]

The U.S. doesn't recognize dual citizenship, but that doesn't mean that one can't retain UK citizenship as long as the UK is okay with it (which they are).

So if you're a duel citizen, does the US consider you a full US citizen or not one at all? From what you said it sounds like the US considers you a full US citizen, and the UK considers you a duel citizen that is still good for residency. That sounds good, but if you're married to a full UK citizen, what would the need be to get UK citizenship yourself?

If you want your kids to go to the UK for university, they have to live there for something like 3 years in order to qualify if they're UK citizens, which you can as long as you register their births.

This is true, but it's still an ability they wouldn't have if my fiance were a US citizen.

What's an investment visa?

I was thinking of the E2 visa, that "allows an individual to enter and work inside of the United States based on an investment he or she will be controlling, while inside the United States." (via Wikipedia)

Edited January 5, 2010 by Rito

[Justine+David 218]

Haha, there's no such thing as a "half-US" citizen. You either are one or you aren't. You don't lose UK citizenship just because you become a US citizen.

It's very hard to get employment in the UK if you're not a UKC or part of the EU. We'd have to get special permits and the like. Of course, above $80k, we'd be double-taxed in the US and UK...

[Rito 28]

Haha, there's no such thing as a "half-US" citizen. You either are one or you aren't. You don't lose UK citizenship just because you become a US citizen.

It's very hard to get employment in the UK if you're not a UKC or part of the EU. We'd have to get special permits and the like. Of course, above $80k, we'd be double-taxed in the US and UK...

So... if my fiance comes to the US and becomes a US citizen, he's still a UK citizen? And if I go to the UK and become a UK citizen, I'm still a US citizen? Sorry for all the question... just really unsure how this works.

[Damian&Kelly 16]

You can be a US and a UK citizen at the same time and as long as you register you're kids in both countries, they will automaticly become US/UK citizens. I know nothing about the taxes part.

My husband and I are planning on both getting US/UK citizenship. He (UKC) moved here to the US on the K-1 and got his green card in 3 years time he can apply for citizenship, once he's a UK/US citizen, we're looking to move back to England so I can become a UK citizen. I believe once I'm a UK citizen I have more of an option with living and traveling in Europe but I'm not quite sure how it works.

[Robyn-n-Kris 72]

Pretty much everything everyone above has said holds true. I know Kris won't become a citizen of the US. He will get his 10year GC but once my youngest son is graduated we are moving over to the UK to live. So I will get my UKC once we move but I can't see us ever coming back to the states. Unfortunately this place isn't what he was hoping for. (can't totally blame him) Not for everyone

[Rito 28]

Thanks everyone, that's very helpful! I didn't realize you didn't renounce your citizenship of the US or UK when you get the other country's citizenship. It also sounds like there's no negative side of both people getting both countries' citizenship, and this is the best thing to do since it makes working and traveling easier. Nice!

Edited January 5, 2010 by Rito

[Gemmie 142]

Yeah, it sounds complicated, but it isn't.

After 3 years of being a resident in the US (as long as you two stay married), he can become a US citizen and KEEP his UK citizenship at the same time. To be honest, I didn't really want to become a USC but am considering it, just so that we don't have to deal with immigration paperwork again. Even if I don't stay here long-term, if we ever choose to move back to the US, I don't want to ever have to look at a visa application again.

I'm not AS sure on the other way round, but I think you can become a UK citizen after living there for 3 or 5 years.

Your kids can be registered in both countries and automatically get both passports, which means they have rights to both.

[sachinky 464]

The U.S. doesn't forbid dual citizenship but doesn't recognize it either. Meaning, for the U.S. government you'll be only a USC, no matter what your other citizenship is. But by becoming a USC, you don't automatically renounce your former citizenship, unless that country revokes citizenship if the citizen takes up citizenship of another country.

Anyway, this is what I understand.

[mad people 0]

You do know if your a US citizen you pay tax to the US FOREVER?

[Rito 28]

You do know if your a US citizen you pay tax to the US FOREVER?

####! Looks like there's no way to ever avoid that, since I'm an American citizen and renouncing citizenship isn't easy (or necessarily a good idea). Goddamn America.

[Justine+David 218]

Right, but you can get a tax credit for the taxes that you pay in the other countries...

Basically there are two options (according to wikipedia)

1) Pay no taxes up to $87,000

2) Show that you paid taxes up to x amount in the country (there are 60 countries involved in this treaty) and if the amount is less than what you would pay in the US taxes, then you pay the difference. If it's more, then you don't pay anything.

[britbird 4]

The peeps on this forum speaketh the truth:

I am a UK citizen by birth and have my lovely maroon UK passport.

I also naturalized and have a (frankly not quite as aesthetically lovely, but still very nice) US passport.

When I travel I carry them both.

Taxes are something of a pain, but not a huge one given the tax credit situation as noted above. A good accountant is a good idea.

Residency rather than citizenship will be the big issue once you get around to claiming any kind of benefit.

[Robyn-n-Kris 72]

I understand the benefits of having citizenship in both countries but I know for a fact that once we move back to the UK there is no way Kris will ever come back to the States. Which I have no issues with. He will have stayed here for nearly 10years to begin with.