Photo Radar

[Pooky 3,930]

You actually believe that if someone gets a ticket, it's always because they drove badly? Yea, but you bike and don't know any better. People beat tickets everyday because the ticket shouldn't have been issued. Photo radar is government's lazy way to collect more revenue. It can and has been been successfully challenged, as it should be.

In this case, though, I doubt it would be.

To the point that cameras are the wrong way to go, I couldn't agree more. In the UK, Gatso's are everywhere. Yes they are a lazy way to enforce traffic laws. They are there to catch specific offences committed at certain spots, such as running red lights, speeding at known spots, etc. On their own, these would not put me against them in principle.

But an inevitable consequence is a draw-down in the numbers of traffic police. Less cars on patrol, less first-hand vigilance, inevitably leads to an increase in traffic casualties. A fixed camera can't catch a drunk driver. A fixed camera can't catch the habitual 6-feet-behind-you tailgaiters. A fixed camera can't catch the really bad drivers. Mobile police at least have a chance.

Now I know that traffic police can't be everywhere and catch everyone, but they at least have a chance to be in the right place at the right time. And their mere presence is a deterrent, unlike a fixed camera, where as soon as it's out of line-of-sight is about as much use in prevent traffic offences as a fish on a bicycle.

[Peikko 1,575]

Again, I agree with Pooky, I don't for one minute believe this is the most successful way to deter offenders. I didn't ever run along that particular road. However, as he also pointed out, it is unlikely that Steven was erroneously caught on camera.

He, she, whatever. I also agree that it is not up to me or anyone else to make the decision as to what Steven should do. I do however think that peer pressure is a very good way to change behaviours, and it is sad that the peer pressure on these cases is to 'buck the system' rather than learn and change, considering the estimate is that 22% of all accidents take place in intersections because of red light runners.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[Peikko 1,575]

It's very much a case of assuming, despite all the evidence, that you did not drive badly 'because this is lazy government taxing us good citizens' when the reality is most cases are of bad drivers getting caught.

[Peikko 1,575]

Exactly. You're insinuating that someone is doing something wrong if they're caught on a red light camera and they should not do it anymore because they're being more dangerous.

That is simply not true.

Like most of my posts, there's a whole bunch of irony, a little sarcasm, but then a nugget of truth buried in there somewhere. When you're talking about dangerous driving in relation to cyclists in a red light camera thread, you're basically arguing that a bunny farmer how had a subdivision built around him is wrong when they call for the farm to be shut down.

Nuggets of balony. The only reason I mentioned being a cyclist is because one has ample time to observe the awful driving found at interesctions and how these impact on those using the road as a crossing point.

[Pooky 3,930]

Again, I agree with Pooky, I don't for one minute believe this is the most successful way to deter offenders. I didn't ever run along that particular road. However, as he also pointed out, it is unlikely that Steven was erroneously caught on camera.

He, she, whatever. I also agree that it is not up to me or anyone else to make the decision as to what Steven should do. I do however think that peer pressure is a very good way to change behaviours, and it is sad that the peer pressure on these cases is to 'buck the system' rather than learn and change, considering the estimate is that 22% of all accidents take place in intersections because of red light runners.

America needs more roundabouts

Seriously, proven in Maine to cause 40% less Fatacs than 4-way stops, mainly due to the change from direct broadside strikes to angled, glancing impacts, without increasing the number of accidents. Go figure.

[Peikko 1,575]

I am not sure that Americans are ready for roundabouts.

Do all states allow turn on red? That's the biggest hazzard for pedestrians/cyclists.

[Pooky 3,930]

I am not sure that Americans are ready for roundabouts.

I know for a fact that the wife isn't. I know where there are a few and it's always an adventure which way we'll end up going.

[Peikko 1,575]

I know of one in CA. Luckily it doesn't experience high volumes of traffic. TBH, I don't actually know if they use the French of the English system of priorities, which makes it tougher to negotiate

[slim 1,533]

Nuggets of balony. The only reason I mentioned being a cyclist is because one has ample time to observe the awful driving found at interesctions and how these impact on those using the road as a crossing point.

And how do red light cameras reduce that risk?

I am not sure that Americans are ready for roundabouts.

Surely with our complicated "lights and cameras" systems we could figure out how to drive in a circle.

But I'm with you though. Wherever I've seen roundabouts and American drivers there's been madness. They just don't understand the concept of "darting in front of oncoming traffic." Defensive drivers just wait and wait and wait and we're so used to yielding on turns that we can't figure out how to get out of the dang things. I've seen people literally circle a roundabout four or five times while waiting on their "turn lane" to open up.

Do all states allow turn on red? That's the biggest hazzard for pedestrians/cyclists.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with red light cameras.

[Peikko 1,575]

I found this quite interesting on the mechanism for the cameras. I am sure the website has a bias, but to explain how they work, it seems quite good.

Link

[Peikko 1,575]

And how do red light cameras reduce that risk?

Surely with our complicated "lights and cameras" systems we could figure out how to drive in a circle.

But I'm with you though. Wherever I've seen roundabouts and American drivers there's been madness. They just don't understand the concept of "darting in front of oncoming traffic." Defensive drivers just wait and wait and wait and we're so used to yielding on turns that we can't figure out how to get out of the dang things. I've seen people literally circle a roundabout four or five times while waiting on their "turn lane" to open up.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with red light cameras.

I have not claimed anywhere that it does reduce risk, or that turing left on red has anything to do with it either - although most people don't stop before turning left on red if they can't see a car approaching the interesection, which is incredibly dangerous for pedestrians etc as well as clearly a traffic violation.

As for roundabouts, you have to understand who has priority, then it's pretty simple.

[Peikko 1,575]

@ myself. I am totally biased in favour of learning to drive a manual transmission as a means to becoming a better driver. I can't prove that it makes you a better driver, I just believe it's true Edited December 31, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[Pooky 3,930]

@ myself. I am totally biased in favour of learning to drive a manual transmission as a means to becoming a better driver. I can't prove that it makes you a better driver, I just believe it's true

I'm all in favour of manual transmissions, driven mainly by the experience of driving a Hyundai Elantra rental car from Reno to Yosemite National Park and negotiating the 6,000ft climb up to the Eastern entrance to the Park, at over 10,000 ft elevation, never knowing when the bloody thing was going to downshift on me. Nightmare!

[slim 1,533]

All throughout this thread you've been saying people should "own up" to their bad driving habits and be safer drivers. This is a thread about red light cameras and if red light cameras do not make people safer drivers... then why is it wrong to fight a ticket at one?

As for manual transmissions making folks safer drivers I'd agree 100% because you have to actually pay attention to operate one. Plus, you gain the advantage of being able to upshift or downshift for more or less power when cornering.

[Peikko 1,575]

I'm sorry you don't understand that point Slim, really. I don't know if this is because you don't understand consequences or simply that you are being obtuse.

Manual cars ftw!

I'm all in favour of manual transmissions, driven mainly by the experience of driving a Hyundai Elantra rental car from Reno to Yosemite National Park and negotiating the 6,000ft climb up to the Eastern entrance to the Park, at over 10,000 ft elevation, never knowing when the bloody thing was going to downshift on me. Nightmare!

The only automatic vehicle we own has a huge engine, so that's not a problem. I still find it wierd though.