Babies and Citizenship, and all that good stuff...

[JayJay 4]

Hi there!

Okay, so I'm about to have a baby here - Isobella Mai - any day now. I am 38 weeks pregnant on Monday, and wanted to know if any of you guys and gals were aware of what to do about the baby's nationality.

Long story short, I came here and was married to a US citizen. That didn't work out: so this baby is a result of a domestic partnership: i.e. boyfriend/girlfriend. She's our 2nd child together - the first child, Josie, very sadly died at birth back in 2008 at full term, so this isn't a situation I've found myself in before.

Now in a nutshell, I will likely be flying to the UK to visit my family with Isobella when she's a few weeks old. Then, again for sure, this summer. So the question arises: passports, and nationality.

I've found conflicting reports on the 'net about whether or not Isobella will automatically acquire UK citizenship through me: I'm a UK citizen, permanent resident here in the states *forever* - and her father is American. If she does acquire UK citizenship, do I pop her on my passport? Can one even do that any more or will she need her own separate passport? I am assuming I need to register her birth with the British consulate?

Now, since presumably she will be a US citizen by birth, does this mean she will also need an American passport on top of a British passport/being on my passport?

I'm kinda hoping someone here has some insight and has been in this situation before... I'm finding the information online kind of confusing - hey - I'm very pregnant! Also this will all have to be arranged very quickly after the birth if I'm to have a chance of taking her across the pond to see my family in February...

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Lioncub4 4]

Hi there!

Okay, so I'm about to have a baby here - Isobella Mai - any day now. I am 38 weeks pregnant on Monday, and wanted to know if any of you guys and gals were aware of what to do about the baby's nationality.

Long story short, I came here and was married to a US citizen. That didn't work out: so this baby is a result of a domestic partnership: i.e. boyfriend/girlfriend. She's our 2nd child together - the first child, Josie, very sadly died at birth back in 2008 at full term, so this isn't a situation I've found myself in before.

Now in a nutshell, I will likely be flying to the UK to visit my family with Isobella when she's a few weeks old. Then, again for sure, this summer. So the question arises: passports, and nationality.

I've found conflicting reports on the 'net about whether or not Isobella will automatically acquire UK citizenship through me: I'm a UK citizen, permanent resident here in the states *forever* - and her father is American. If she does acquire UK citizenship, do I pop her on my passport? Can one even do that any more or will she need her own separate passport? I am assuming I need to register her birth with the British consulate?

Now, since presumably she will be a US citizen by birth, does this mean she will also need an American passport on top of a British passport/being on my passport?

I'm kinda hoping someone here has some insight and has been in this situation before... I'm finding the information online kind of confusing - hey - I'm very pregnant! Also this will all have to be arranged very quickly after the birth if I'm to have a chance of taking her across the pond to see my family in February...

Thanks in advance for any help!

Ok so since the father is american and you are a UK citizen, the baby will be a dual citizen. You have to register the baby in UK and can obtain a passport for her although it is very costly around $300 US dollars I believe. In order to travel, she will need a US passport which you will have to have the father's permission to obtain. It is also a good idea to have a notarized statement from the father stating it is ok to take her out of the country. It is not always asked for from what I understand , but better safe than sorry. I do know you will have to have the father's permission to obtain her a US passport. I recently had a baby back in Oct and my fiance is a UK citizen and is due to arrive in the states on Tues. Our son has dual citizenship also although we have not registered him yet. I believe you have till she is 18 to do it. My suggestion to you would be to obtain her a US passport and then when you are over there in the UK visiting, you can register her and apply for a british passport...just a suggestion. Good luck with the pregnancy!!! :-)

[Lansbury 19]

If she is born in the US she will be a US citizen and will have to enter and leave the US with a US passport.

Not sure in the circumstances if she will have UK citizenship but I think so. She would be entitled to a UK passport in that case, but US law requiring citizens to use US passports means she must have a US one. The UK doesn't require its citizens to have British passports so you have the choice to get one or not depending on the circumstances of your travel plans.

[JayJay 4]

Hmmm - okay. I am therefore presuming that if I leave the father's name OFF the birth certificate, I can do this process by myself?

Now, please don't presume that I'm doing THAT for the sake of convenience - there are a number of other very important reasons I may actually choose not to put him on the birth certificate (serious relapse in alcoholism in the last nine months; inability to behave properly to his other two children caused by depression; not getting help for that depression or the booze problem (which is, yes, caused by the death of our other daughter, sure); my knowledge for certain that this will continue after she is born...). We do live together at the moment, but if the familial situation continues, I may have to stop living with him until he chooses to get help (or not) and most certainly do not plan to involve an innocent child in any wranglings. He's not (at this time) in any fit state to make any decisions about the proper raising of a child. It's a long and complex situation, basically...I could go into more detail but hopefully that will suffice. I'm not trying to remove her from his life - I AM trying to keep her safe emotionally, and really, it's crunch time as far as that is concerned!

All in all, I simply want to be able to take my little daughter out to meet her English family for a couple of weeks. My home is here in the US - I'm coming back after those two weeks. Can't imagine trying to get a notarized letter from an angry drunk regarding my taking the child I love to meet her grandparents though... I can't imagine what her passport picture will look like at 4 weeks old - how funny!

[Lioncub4 4]

Hmmm - okay. I am therefore presuming that if I leave the father's name OFF the birth certificate, I can do this process by myself?

Now, please don't presume that I'm doing THAT for the sake of convenience - there are a number of other very important reasons I may actually choose not to put him on the birth certificate (serious relapse in alcoholism in the last nine months; inability to behave properly to his other two children caused by depression; not getting help for that depression or the booze problem (which is, yes, caused by the death of our other daughter, sure); my knowledge for certain that this will continue after she is born...). We do live together at the moment, but if the familial situation continues, I may have to stop living with him until he chooses to get help (or not) and most certainly do not plan to involve an innocent child in any wranglings. He's not (at this time) in any fit state to make any decisions about the proper raising of a child. It's a long and complex situation, basically...I could go into more detail but hopefully that will suffice. I'm not trying to remove her from his life - I AM trying to keep her safe emotionally, and really, it's crunch time as far as that is concerned!

All in all, I simply want to be able to take my little daughter out to meet her English family for a couple of weeks. My home is here in the US - I'm coming back after those two weeks. Can't imagine trying to get a notarized letter from an angry drunk regarding my taking the child I love to meet her grandparents though... I can't imagine what her passport picture will look like at 4 weeks old - how funny!

I may be wrong but if you leave the baby's father's name off the birth certificate, she will not be a US Citizen. I am not sure how not having a father listed on the birth certificate will work with the whole US passport situation...you might want to check into that.

[English Muffin 59]

If the child is born in the US she will be a USC whether the father is listed on her BC or not.

[rebeccajo 14]

Check over at uk-yankee.com for answers about registering your child's birth abroad. I believe it should be done within three months of birth, but please confirm this at uk-yankee.

Also, simply not listing your child's father on Isobella's birth certificate serves no real purpose other than to promote controversy. It would be easy enough for your partner to avail himself of the courts for paternity. As he has custody of his two children by his prior relationship, I'm sure he's not intimidated by our US family court system. Also, not listing the father can be foolish move on your part insofar as obtaining child support for your daughter (something you should seek on matter how self-sufficient you consider yourself).

Lastly, if you are thinking that not listing your daughter's father on her birth certificate would make it easier for you to remove her from the US to the UK, that is a fallacy. The US and UK both signed onto the Hague Convention and your partner could claim abduction under that agreement.

[JayJay 4]

Check over at uk-yankee.com for answers about registering your child's birth abroad. I believe it should be done within three months of birth, but please confirm this at uk-yankee.

Also, simply not listing your child's father on Isobella's birth certificate serves no real purpose other than to promote controversy. It would be easy enough for your partner to avail himself of the courts for paternity. As he has custody of his two children by his prior relationship, I'm sure he's not intimidated by our US family court system. Also, not listing the father can be foolish move on your part insofar as obtaining child support for your daughter (something you should seek on matter how self-sufficient you consider yourself).

Lastly, if you are thinking that not listing your daughter's father on her birth certificate would make it easier for you to remove her from the US to the UK, that is a fallacy. The US and UK both signed onto the Hague Convention and your partner could claim abduction under that agreement.

Well I'm actually not trying to "remove" her at all. I simply want to take her for a visit. Under MN law, if I were to claim child support (which I would not do anyhow) he would actually not have to be on the birth certificate at all.

Additionally yes, he could go for the whole paternity test thing as well, if he wanted to, but that would be on his cost and time. All I am trying to do is to ensure my daughter is not brought up in a home with an active alcoholic!

I also did a bit of research on NOT putting his name on, and actually, the action of not listing him would indeed give me sole legal custody of the child, and he could indeed NOT claim any kind of "abduction" if I were to take her to the UK for a visit because simply listing myself as the mother and nobody as a father would give me the legal rights over the child. Naturally I wouldn't be thinking of doing this if the last nine months hadn't been completely riddled in drunkenness, instability and irresponsibility on his part for both the welfare of myself and his existing two children.

I do believe in making relationships work, and working on them, but certainly never, ever at the expense of a tiny child. I am his woman, not his mother, and I won't put my child in mental or physical danger. If that means (at least initially, until he has chosen to sort himself out) not putting his name on a birth certificate so that this tiny little baby doesn't get stamped on in revenge for my potential leaving the situation (at least temporarily) then that's exactly what I will do.

Lastly, it seems pretty easy to put his name ON the birth certificate at a later date - would simply involve him and I signing a "recognition of parentage" form and submitting it to the state.

All together I simply won't have, as I said, a tiny child going through hell because her Daddy is going through hell and chooses not to do anything about it. I'm not even talking about taking the child away from him - not at all. Simply the legal right to mess with her wellbeing if he feels angry with me for leaving with the baby, should I choose to do that for my own mental wellbeing and the wellbeing of the child.

Does that make any more sense?

[JayJay 4]

Anyway, I'm not trying to incite controversy or anything of that nature. Simply trying not to create a crazy situation. And trying to introduce my daughter to her English family which as far as I am concerned is not at all horrible or scandalous.

Also I am hoping it doesn't come to that. But right now, he's rather heavily involved with his beer: to such an extent that most likely, I'm going to have to get someone else to drive me to hospital in labor. Without the beer, he's fabulous. With the beer...well, let's just say he simply should not be drinking beer! I love him very much and completely empathize with the reasons he feels he needs to drink (our daughter's death having been the trigger), but nonetheless, can't have a child around that type of behavior! As I said, I would not try to take his daughter away, or prevent him from seeing her: I'm a reasonable person after all. But, I have to make sure she is protected. I'm her mama.

[Justine+David 218]

Just wanted to say I'm sorry that your ex is more concerned about his beer than you and your (and his) baby. I wish the birth of your baby well without any complications

[rebeccajo 14]

JayJay -

I think you'd be better off getting a legal opinion rather than doing legal research on the web.

Just my two cents.

[JayJay 4]

Just wanted to say I'm sorry that your ex is more concerned about his beer than you and your (and his) baby. I wish the birth of your baby well without any complications

Ah, it's okay - actually he isn't my ex - he's my guy. He's a good guy too - with a problem (like so many others)! I just have to put my foot down for the sake of the baby, is all.

Rebecca, you know you're right Actually I didn't even mean to get into all that on this thread - I suppose I am very pregnant and hormonal and it just kinda "came out" ya know? I did answer my own questions in the end anyway. Thinking out loud always gets me into trouble! But anyway - my mother still hopes that when she comes, it'll all be fine and he'll get help and change, etc etc etc (all that). I suppose I am just a pregnant, hormonal, pessimistic monster at the moment and I'm just preparing for the worst.

In the end, I love him. He loves me. He has a problem. I'm hoping in my heart of hearts that this problem kind of releases it's grip on him as I have the baby (ALIVE this time!!!) and he feels less of a need to worry. Maybe then we can concentrate on solving the underlying issues, and this won't ever be a problem again...

Aaaahh...and I am usually SUCH an optimist. Being 38 weeks pregnant with a baby who feels quite enormous is taking it's toll on my brain and my body, I reckon...