Thailand or Siam? What’s in a Name?

[thongd4me 69]

Thailand or Siam? What’s in a Name?

[JD63 4]

I don't think that will happen, since almost everyone in Thailand has always known it as Thailand

[thongd4me 69]

I don't think that will happen, since almost everyone in Thailand has always known it as Thailand

I also doubt it will happen (think of the infrastructure nightmare) but the professor

raises some interesting questions. I think they should leave well enough alone.

There are many businesses with the name "Siam" and that seems to co-exist

well enough with "Thailand" but to change it back is kind of pointless because

everyone knows that was the old name and accepts the new one, despite

the political circumstances behind it.

[BishopMnA 0]

Interesting Article, phonetically speaking, I prefer the name Siam...

I would have to disagree with this statement from the article, specifically pointing to the last sentence: "The ethnic identification has long been tightly bound with religion. Buddhism is the national religion. “Thainess” was constructed based on Buddhism. Thus, in being Thai, one must profess Buddhism."

Granted, I suspect that Thailand is 95% Buddhist, but I think that last line in the above statement does not ring true. My wife is Christian, and Thai, and all of her family is Christian. Granted, 200-150 years ago Christians were martyrd in Thailand by Buddhist extremist, but, this is not the case in Thailand today. I do agree with the article that Siam seems like a better fit, sort of a 'melting pot' for SE Asia.

But, what do I know? I'm a farang

[thongd4me 69]

Interesting Article, phonetically speaking, I prefer the name Siam...

I would have to disagree with this statement from the article, specifically pointing to the last sentence: "The ethnic identification has long been tightly bound with religion. Buddhism is the national religion. "Thainess" was constructed based on Buddhism. Thus, in being Thai, one must profess Buddhism."

Granted, I suspect that Thailand is 95% Buddhist, but I think that last line in the above statement does not ring true. My wife is Christian, and Thai, and all of her family is Christian. Granted, 200-150 years ago Christians were martyrd in Thailand by Buddhist extremist, but, this is not the case in Thailand today. I do agree with the article that Siam seems like a better fit, sort of a 'melting pot' for SE Asia.

But, what do I know? I'm a farang

The article does make it sound as if Thailand being Buddhist is a problem.

If it's a problem there should be more of that among nations.

Thailand, being Buddist does discriminate in some aspects but by the same

token it is very welcoming and accepting to other religions and in my book

gets very high marks for tolerance. My soon-to-be son-in-law was a graduate

of one of the best Jesuit high schools in Bangkok and now he is about to

graduate from one of the best universities, Chulalongkorn.

Also a former co-worker who is gay went to Thailand around 30 years ago

to work and live and his lifestyle is very much tolerated by Thai society,

even though Buddhism does not encourage it.

I think "Siam" does sound better - it sounds more Asian to me than Thailand

because "land" is not a Thai word

I still don't think they will change it back. Might start a civil war.

[anya-D 8]

I think "Siam" does sound better - it sounds more Asian to me than Thailand

because "land" is not a Thai word

I still don't think they will change it back. Might start a civil war.

That's because in Thai language we dont call ourself Thailand, we call ourself "Pra-ted Thai" (Pra-ted or Pra-tes means country) or "Muang Thai" (Muang means city)

I dont think they(the govt) will change it.. it's hard to explain but Siam and Thai are used in a slightly different context and it gives different feels.. like Siam is more likely to show up in a documentary or advertisment about the country and promote unity and a sense of being Thai...it has more emotional meaning attached to it.

And Buddhist way is pretty much embedded in the Thai culture anyway, Brother Mark, I remember you said something about Aam being Christian with Thai or Buddhist influence (sorry I couldnt find a right way to say this) I'm not sure how to explain but Buddhist has been with Thailand from almost at the begining so culturaly speaking, our way of life has been carved to follow buddhist way of teaching.. that's what I think the article pointed out that eventhough one is not Buddhist, but if they are Thai, in some way or the other, they are also influence by Buddhist (as in Thai culture). Too bad that our way of life has changed too much too fast... one hardly recognize a true Thai culture anymore.

Edited December 24, 2009 by anya-D

[thongd4me 69]

That's because in Thai language we dont call ourself Thailand, we call ourself "Pra-ted Thai" (Pra-ted or Pra-tes means country) or "Muang Thai" (Muang means city)

I dont think they(the govt) will change it.. it's hard to explain but Siam and Thai are used in a slightly different context and it gives different feels.. like Siam is more likely to show up in a documentary or advertisment about the country and promote unity and a sense of being Thai...it has more emotional meaning attached to it.

And Buddhist way is pretty much embedded in the Thai culture anyway, Brother Mark, I remember you said something about Aam being Christian with Thai or Buddhist influence (sorry I couldnt find a right way to say this) I'm not sure how to explain but Buddhist has been with Thailand from almost at the begining so culturaly speaking, our way of life has been carved to follow buddhist way of teaching.. that's what I think the article pointed out that eventhough one is not Buddhist, but if they are Thai, in some way or the other, they are also influence by Buddhist (as in Thai culture). Too bad that our way of life has changed too much too fast... one hardly recognize a true Thai culture anymore.

I suspected (thanks for the info) that you use the Thai word for country or land instead

of English. It's kind of like Deutschland being the German word but for other languages they

make their own adaptation {Germany (English), Allemagne (French), Doitsu (Japanese, which

is closer to Deutschland that either E or F)}.

I also think that they won't change Thailand back to Siam but many are still comfortable

using Siam where they feel it is appropriate. I don't worry about the argument that the

name Thailand seems to be exclusive of outsiders (as the article suggests) because

Thais are among the kindest and most welcoming people I have met in the world.

I checked with my friend from Myanmar (Burma) and he said that the Irrawaddy publication

where the article appeared is an anti-Burma (his words) publication published in Thailand.

He also had interest in the article, but other than that he didn't comment.

In my feeble attempt to learn the Thai alphabet I noted in highway signs they have

Krung-Thep (for Bangkok) and that is now firmly in my memory so when I ask directions

in the future I will say how to get to KT instead of BKK.

Korp Khun Krap

[dvddvd 0]

My wife grew up "Christian", but her Thainess oozes Buddhism. She has never professed Buddhism with her mouth, but her "way" of looking at things/life, at least to me, screams Buddhism. I think it's a nice mix.

[JD63 4]

That's because in Thai language we dont call ourself Thailand, we call ourself "Pra-ted Thai" (Pra-ted or Pra-tes means country) or "Muang Thai" (Muang means city)

I dont think they(the govt) will change it.. it's hard to explain but Siam and Thai are used in a slightly different context and it gives different feels.. like Siam is more likely to show up in a documentary or advertisment about the country and promote unity and a sense of being Thai...it has more emotional meaning attached to it.

And Buddhist way is pretty much embedded in the Thai culture anyway, Brother Mark, I remember you said something about Aam being Christian with Thai or Buddhist influence (sorry I couldnt find a right way to say this) I'm not sure how to explain but Buddhist has been with Thailand from almost at the begining so culturaly speaking, our way of life has been carved to follow buddhist way of teaching.. that's what I think the article pointed out that eventhough one is not Buddhist, but if they are Thai, in some way or the other, they are also influence by Buddhist (as in Thai culture). Too bad that our way of life has changed too much too fast... one hardly recognize a true Thai culture anymore.

Change is the status quo, especially when it's nearly impossible for countries to be isolated. However, it's nothing new. Buddhism was introduced from South Asia, combined with the existing animism and other beliefs, then Chinese migration had huge influences on Thai culture. Now it's western influence.

Also I was reading there's constant turmoil between the State Department of Culture going after people for all sorts of things they think are not Thai and shutting down websites? I think that's the wrong sort of attitude.

Anyway, I think this is a great topic, and if you're interested in it more I would suggest "A History of Thailand" by Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit. It's a bit academic, but really really fascinating.

[BishopMnA 0]

My wife grew up "Christian", but her Thainess oozes Buddhism. She has never professed Buddhism with her mouth, but her "way" of looking at things/life, at least to me, screams Buddhism. I think it's a nice mix.

Brother dvd (and Sister Anya),

Brother dvd has put this in the correct words. Yes...my wife and her entire family is Christian going back several generations...but my wife went to Buddhist schools and can sing all the Buddhist chants and is without a doubt entirely Thai...which is one of the things that I thoroughly love about her because I have an IMMENSE respect for Buddhism and for Thailand. Without a doubt, my wife would never say 'with her mouth' that she is Buddhist, but in the manner which she views the world and the way she interacts with the world is through-and-through Buddhist in nature, and mixing it with her deep Christian convictions creates within her a tremendously beautiful soul.

You're absolutely correct Brother dvd...it is a beautiful mix...one which I'd never encountered before I met my wife...and one which I am completely fascinated by...because it is so pure and beautiful.

Merry Christmas to all and 2010 Blessings to all as well!

Mark and AAm

[thongd4me 69]

My Burmese friend said that the Irrawaddy paper was anti-Burmese military government specifically.

[Erich&Chanisa 0]

Thailand or Siam? What’s in a Name?

Good Stuff!! Thanks!

[anya-D 8]

Brother dvd (and Sister Anya),

but my wife went to Buddhist schools and can sing all the Buddhist chants and is without a doubt entirely Thai...

Mark and AAm

Lol That's funny coz I went to Christian school for the total of 10 years out of 16 - kinda learn about Mary and Joseph, christmas story and all the glorious songs (which I can still remember) before Buddha! But I'm true and true Buddhist

Merry Christmas too all!

My Burmese friend said that the Irrawaddy paper was anti-Burmese military government specifically.

Interesting...

[thongd4me 69]

Change is the status quo, especially when it's nearly impossible for countries to be isolated. However, it's nothing new. Buddhism was introduced from South Asia, combined with the existing animism and other beliefs, then Chinese migration had huge influences on Thai culture. Now it's western influence.

Also I was reading there's constant turmoil between the State Department of Culture going after people for all sorts of things they think are not Thai and shutting down websites? I think that's the wrong sort of attitude.

Anyway, I think this is a great topic, and if you're interested in it more I would suggest "A History of Thailand" by Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit. It's a bit academic, but really really fascinating.

It must be a very good book because the 2 copies owned by the NYPL are only available for reading at the library.

Since I'm in walking distance (from where I work) I will check it out.

Now I'm about 2/3 through "The King Never Smiles" which is an excellent history of the monarchy (banned in Thailand).

He says plenty of good things about the king but pulls no punches in his criticism of him and those surrounding him.

It's been a real eye-opener because no Thai would divulge the stuff that's in there to a farang willingly.

Probably the most controversial thing is even the mention that Rama VIII could have accidentally been killed by his younger brother, the present king.

The author doesn't hold that opinion necessarily, but just mentions it because it was a long-standing rumor in the time following Ananda's death.

That's the premise for a possible explanation of why the king never smiles. The standard excuse is that he is the "Dhammaraja"(the enlightened king

so close to nirvana and perfection of thought that he is always in a trance-like scowl). The message is that he is always brooding of ways to help his people.

[anya-D 8]

In my feeble attempt to learn the Thai alphabet I noted in highway signs they have

Krung-Thep (for Bangkok) and that is now firmly in my memory so when I ask directions

in the future I will say how to get to KT instead of BKK.

Korp Khun Krap

Yea... Bangkok is the name of a small region in Krungtep. Krungtep means a city of Angle. When King.. (his name escape me, he's the one before King Rama I) moved the capital of Siam to the place it is now, the place is called Bangkok.. then Bangkok expand and the new city is called Krungtep. This is not so accurate coz I draw it from my memory - which I dont have much of these days But that's the idea

Amoung Thais, we call the place Krungtep and Bangkok is a district in Kruntep but if the name Bangkok came out of farang, it's understand that Bangkok = Kruntep (and not just the district name) confuse yet?

I have to finish wraping the presents..

Happy Holiday to all!