Democrats & Abortion

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Everyone inherently knows murder is wrong. It just depends on how desensitized you are to it.

Would you shoot someone for trying to break into your home?

Yes. There is a clear difference of shedding innocent blood, and shedding guilty blood or in self defense. That has nothing to do with religion.

Right. So, we make exceptions to murder and justify it under certain conditions, so murder isn't black and white as you indicated earlier. Of course we all agree that murder is wrong, but we do look at the circumstances...and "self-defense" is not a clear cut qualifier. You believe that murdering someone is morally wrong because in conscience, you believe it is wrong, but you would justify murdering someone under certain circumstances, even if your justification of self defense may not be so clear cut.

[Peikko 1,575]

Everyone inherently knows murder is wrong. It just depends on how desensitized you are to it.

Would you shoot someone for trying to break into your home?

Yes. There is a clear difference of shedding innocent blood, and shedding guilty blood or in self defense. That has nothing to do with religion.

Religion has nothing to do with it. If thats the case, whether or not someone believes in murder is a religious thing as well. Which it isn't.

Joe, whether an act of killing is termed murder or not is always a matter of opinion. That opinion may be sanctioned in a particular set of laws or it may not. In the case of abortion it currently is not in the US, that point is very clear.

You are not against killing, you are simply against killing in the circumstances that suit you all the while claiming that what suits you is aligned with what suits god. Other people who claim a belief in god however, have a different set of opinions on this issue. People who don't believe in god, different opinions again. Your suggestion that only you are right is sanctimonious bullshit.

No one who performs or obtains an abortion 'feels good' about it, that's a totally inappropriate statement, but typical of those who do not really care to honestly look at problems of this order of complexity, but instead prefer to try to sway opinions with emotional blackmail.

So if they legalized killing up to 5 years of age would that make it right just because its law?

And if no one "feels good" about abortion, then why is it a good thing?

Joe, what is the point of the first question? No one is asking for there to be any changes in the law to allow for infanticide.

'Good' has no place in this argument. The question is, in certain circumstances is killing a fetus acceptable? It has been determined that it is and it is left to each individual to determine if their circumstances warrant taking this exceptional step.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[Joseph & Ana 0]

Everyone inherently knows murder is wrong. It just depends on how desensitized you are to it.

Would you shoot someone for trying to break into your home?

Yes. There is a clear difference of shedding innocent blood, and shedding guilty blood or in self defense. That has nothing to do with religion.

Right. So, we make exceptions to murder and justify it under certain conditions, so murder isn't black and white as you indicated earlier. Of course we all agree that murder is wrong, but we do look at the circumstances...and "self-defense" is not a clear cut qualifier. You believe that murdering someone is morally wrong because in conscience, you believe it is wrong, but you would justify murdering someone under certain circumstances, even if your justification of self defense may not be so clear cut.

There is no grey area when shedding innocent blood. Someone trying to kill you is not innocent blood.

Killing out of convenience is always murder. Necessity is not.

Everyone inherently knows murder is wrong. It just depends on how desensitized you are to it.

Would you shoot someone for trying to break into your home?

Yes. There is a clear difference of shedding innocent blood, and shedding guilty blood or in self defense. That has nothing to do with religion.

Religion has nothing to do with it. If thats the case, whether or not someone believes in murder is a religious thing as well. Which it isn't.

Joe, whether an act of killing is termed murder or not is always a matter of opinion. That opinion may be sanctioned in a particular set of laws or it may not. In the case of abortion it currently is not in the US, that point is very clear.

You are not against killing, you are simply against killing in the circumstances that suit you all the while claiming that what suits you is aligned with what suits god. Other people who claim a belief in god however, have a different set of opinions on this issue. People who don't believe in god, different opinions again. Your suggestion that only you are right is sanctimonious bullshit.

No one who performs or obtains an abortion 'feels good' about it, that's a totally inappropriate statement, but typical of those who do not really care to honestly look at problems of this order of complexity, but instead prefer to try to sway opinions with emotional blackmail.

So if they legalized killing up to 5 years of age would that make it right just because its law?

And if no one "feels good" about abortion, then why is it a good thing?

Joe, what is the point of the first question? No one is asking for there to be any changes in the law to allow for infanticide.

If it is law, how would it be infanticide any more than abortion is? (which it is)

[Peikko 1,575]

Circle them wagons Joe. Yeehaw!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Oh Boy

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Everyone inherently knows murder is wrong. It just depends on how desensitized you are to it.

Would you shoot someone for trying to break into your home?

Yes. There is a clear difference of shedding innocent blood, and shedding guilty blood or in self defense. That has nothing to do with religion.

Right. So, we make exceptions to murder and justify it under certain conditions, so murder isn't black and white as you indicated earlier. Of course we all agree that murder is wrong, but we do look at the circumstances...and "self-defense" is not a clear cut qualifier. You believe that murdering someone is morally wrong because in conscience, you believe it is wrong, but you would justify murdering someone under certain circumstances, even if your justification of self defense may not be so clear cut.

There is no grey area when shedding innocent blood. Someone trying to kill you is not innocent blood.

Killing out of convenience is always murder. Necessity is not.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Galt's gallstones

[Susita 175]

There is no grey area when shedding innocent blood. Someone trying to kill you is not innocent blood.

Killing out of convenience is always murder. Necessity is not.

I just want to see what your POV is on this... what if the pregnancy would cause the death of the mother or pose a significantly high risk of death. Then would you be okay with an abortion in that case? Because it would be necessity for the mother to live.

[Peikko 1,575]

Joe, here's a question for you, seeing as you like hypotheticals. Who is the greater sinner?

The man who considers abortion murder but considers the killing of anyone else only murder if the person killed is 'innocent'.

The man who considers abortion an acceptable killing, but considers the killing of anyone else murder?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Everyone inherently knows murder is wrong. It just depends on how desensitized you are to it.

Would you shoot someone for trying to break into your home?

Yes. There is a clear difference of shedding innocent blood, and shedding guilty blood or in self defense. That has nothing to do with religion.

Right. So, we make exceptions to murder and justify it under certain conditions, so murder isn't black and white as you indicated earlier. Of course we all agree that murder is wrong, but we do look at the circumstances...and "self-defense" is not a clear cut qualifier. You believe that murdering someone is morally wrong because in conscience, you believe it is wrong, but you would justify murdering someone under certain circumstances, even if your justification of self defense may not be so clear cut.

There is no grey area when shedding innocent blood. Someone trying to kill you is not innocent blood.

Killing out of convenience is always murder. Necessity is not.

Joseph, I think we both agree that taking the life of another is morally wrong, however there are situations where a greater wrong exists and it is not easy to make that kind of judgment. My POV is that I don't want to see a woman be criminally charged for choosing to have an abortion.

[Peikko 1,575]

Gallstones, I don't agree with your assessment. Joe does not believe taking life is morally wrong, only taking life of innocents. Killing infidels is one's moral duty!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Gallstones, I don't agree with your assessment. Joe does not believe taking life is morally wrong, only taking life of innocents. Killing infidels is one's moral duty!

I'm not just anyone's gallstones...I'm Galt's Gallstones.

[Peikko 1,575]

Sorry Mr Stones...

[Joseph & Ana 0]

There is no grey area when shedding innocent blood. Someone trying to kill you is not innocent blood.

Killing out of convenience is always murder. Necessity is not.

I just want to see what your POV is on this... what if the pregnancy would cause the death of the mother or pose a significantly high risk of death. Then would you be okay with an abortion in that case? Because it would be necessity for the mother to live.

There is the only time where I might have to question it. It does happen, but not often, and I'd have to be assured that it isn't used as an excuse by some. Also, this generally occurrs late in the pregnancy as far as i've read, and at that point there is no point in killing the child. It can be delivered or c-section as easily as vacuuming the brains.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

Joe, here's a question for you, seeing as you like hypotheticals. Who is the greater sinner?

The man who considers abortion murder but considers the killing of anyone else only murder if the person killed is 'innocent'.

The man who considers abortion an acceptable killing, but considers the killing of anyone else murder?

There are no greater or lesser sinners. Wrong is wrong and we're all sinners. But as a society I think we aren't so barbaric as to take innocent life out of convenience.

I respect people who do not believe in the death penalty, and also do not agree with abortion. But I cannot reconcile someone who believes in shedding an innocent baby's blood, but would fight tooth and nail to save a murdering rapist who is on death row.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

Everyone inherently knows murder is wrong. It just depends on how desensitized you are to it.

Would you shoot someone for trying to break into your home?

Yes. There is a clear difference of shedding innocent blood, and shedding guilty blood or in self defense. That has nothing to do with religion.

Right. So, we make exceptions to murder and justify it under certain conditions, so murder isn't black and white as you indicated earlier. Of course we all agree that murder is wrong, but we do look at the circumstances...and "self-defense" is not a clear cut qualifier. You believe that murdering someone is morally wrong because in conscience, you believe it is wrong, but you would justify murdering someone under certain circumstances, even if your justification of self defense may not be so clear cut.

There is no grey area when shedding innocent blood. Someone trying to kill you is not innocent blood.

Killing out of convenience is always murder. Necessity is not.

Joseph, I think we both agree that taking the life of another is morally wrong, however there are situations where a greater wrong exists and it is not easy to make that kind of judgment. My POV is that I don't want to see a woman be criminally charged for choosing to have an abortion.

I'm not naive. I do not think it would be an enforcable law. We can debate all we want, but in the end its about reducing and eliminating the demand for abortions. An area where MC and I can agree on when she isn't making childish insults from her "superior intellect".

Gallstones, I don't agree with your assessment. Joe does not believe taking life is morally wrong, only taking life of innocents. Killing infidels is one's moral duty!

Now you're just being silly.