CAN I GET AN AMEN!

[Heracles 417]

Schools are there to teach whatever the current brand of educationalists deem necessary to make our kids productive members of society. Personally, I think a lot of what is being taught and the way it is taught is flawed but it is what it is and it does deliver at least a broad spectrum learning environment for most children.

I don't know what your experience with US schools is, but I don't recognize anything about this claim that they can be taught about sex but not how to behave. Currently, my experience is that being taught how to behave is given a very high priority, not least because unless the children are behaving in class they are not going to be learning very much of anything else. Prayer has nothing to do with behaving or anything else that can be construed as educational.

Lastly, the rate of teenage pregnancies is not directly inversely related to the availabity of sex education. Simply put schools are not in the business of teaching kids that sex is always good, that teens must engage in it come what may and that it has no consequneces to health or emotional welfare. Quite the reverse in fact, but without all the 'you must feel guilty and ashamed about the role of sex in society because sex is sinful unless you are married in the eyes of god' blah blah blah.

It's not about making kids feel guilty. Schools are required to teach sex ed, even from the 5th grade. How about teaching kids the consequences of their actions or lack of? How about teaching kids to respect one another? rather than bash one another. What has puzzled me about the education system is that in many areas they are trying to teach kids who will never go to college algebra but don't teach them how to function as normal members in society. Don't teach them the consequences of committing a crime. Don;t teach them that they will be eventually caught or killed and they will go to jail.

This is not the teachers fault, but the fault of system as a whole and its priorities. All of a societies perils seems to be put on schools and the teachers shoulders. Yet the failure comes from the parents, from the community and the society they have created. If someone in a ghetto is going to get anything out of school, it should be the consequences of breaking the law, remaining in poverty, not working as a community etc. Academics to such kids is useless. Obviously what is common sense to many in other demographics, is not in poor areas. Hence the crime and rate of teenage pregnancies in those communities. Time education takes a multi-tiered approach and realizes different students need to be taught different things in life. Usually as a result of their parents not teaching them.

Religion and spirituality are far from the problems that face many kids today, particularly those in poor areas. If anything, they can can be part of the solution.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Booyah!

[Danno 1,228]

BY, that is fanciful #######. Sex education is not about promoting sex and to continue to wilfully pretend that it is about free love and sexuality having no bounderies is to continue to promote the lies the religious right wing seem to enjoy. Sexuality is part of the human condition and children need to learn about all aspects of it not simply have their eyes and ears covered and be told to close their legs and everything will be dandy.

MC again you are lost in the "Govt knows best Fog".

Tell me who would be "covering the eyes and ears" of students regarding sex?.....

Your assumption is that Parents just aren't capable of giving the "bird-N- Bees" talk to their kids.

Therefore these poor kids won't know a thing about sex... unless you teach little Suzy how to put the condom "properly" on the banana.

Why don't you tell us what first hand experience you have had with our Sex-Ed classes?

I admit it's been a while since I had the occasion of hearing a teacher explain to the girls "how ORAL SEX is a safer option" in regards to Pregnancy.

Here are some actual clips where the Student leader talks about "spiting or swallowing" and "fisting".

Enjoy.

http://www.massresistance.org/docs/issues/...ate/tape01.html

[Peikko 1,575]

Danno, I really don't have any use for your ridiculous propoganda nor do I believe all your 'govenment knows best' balony. The fact is that prayer isn't educational, but social studies are. Who knew?

[Heracles 417]

MC again you are lost in the "Govt knows best Fog".

However, it's the private industry that promotes this behavior and covers it up as freedom of expression. You are no longer permitted to film porn in Aus. You are not permitted to buy x rate porn there. Religion is perfectly acceptable in schools, as is the right to not participate. Local state and federal governments celebrate religion with their constituents; but do not favor one. That is what I call the logical and intended separation of church and state.

Why do you insist on punishing the government, a government who you have a direct influence on yet refuse to acknowledge the real culprit; yes, private industry. Does the government control the magazines, TV shows and Hollywood? Have you ever seen what goes into those teen magazines? Have you ever noticed how easy it is to retrieve x rated porn on the net. My niece mistyped youtube and it directed her to a x rated porn site. You don't seem to have a problem with this because the private industry is in control. An industry nether you or 1 million Dannos have control of, yet you still support it. Same deal with the health care industry of course. Personally, I'll trust the government over a private corporation or business any day. PS The Aus government has a net filter which stops kids or anyone accessing foul content on the net.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Booyah!

[Peikko 1,575]

Just a bit of idle curioisty here Danno, can you tell me what criteria render sex appropriate and acceptable if teenagers having sex is not? At what age is it appropriate to have one's first sexual experience for example? What do you think should be the punishment for someone who has sex when it's not appropriate?

Also, you suggest that sexual education is not appropriate for the school environment and is better left to mum and dad, but tell me, do you think that it is perfectly safe to assume that all parents have sufficient knowledgle of all appropriate aspects of sexuality and are capable of and willing to impart that knowledge to their children? If that is true, that all parents are expert educators, why do we need schools at all?

[rebeccajo 14]

Schools often do teach children about the consequences of sex too soon. And other responsibilities.

Schools in our county offer a class in basic living - how to balance a checkbook and do banking; how to budget; how to get the basic things in life done like have utilities turned on; etc.

As part of this class they have a 'pregnancy belly' that each student - female and male - gets to wear for 24 hours. There's another exercise done with an egg as if the egg were a baby. They have to either carry it to class or on dates or to the mall or find day-care for it without breaking it.

For 'flashback' purposes - 35 years ago when I was in high school, they taught us sex education, including how to avoid STD's. It ain't something new.

Edited October 4, 2009 by rebeccajo

[Danno 1,228]

Just a bit of idle curioisty here Danno, can you tell me what criteria render sex appropriate and acceptable if teenagers having sex is not? At what age is it appropriate to have one's first sexual experience for example? What do you think should be the punishment for someone who has sex when it's not appropriate?

Also, you suggest that sexual education is not appropriate for the school environment and is better left to mum and dad, but tell me, do you think that it is perfectly safe to assume that all parents have sufficient knowledgle of all appropriate aspects of sexuality and are capable of and willing to impart that knowledge to their children? If that is true, that all parents are expert educators, why do we need schools at all?

MC these questions you raise are all bound to have wildly different answers... depending on the family you ask.

I have known parents who let the 15 yr old daughters boyfriends, sleep over and in the morning, they all eat breakfast together at the table (no joke).

And I have known other parents which are very restricting on where their kids go and who they are with.

With the wild diversity we have in this country.... it is best to leave these matter to families themselves, sure there may be a few cases where the parents don't have the Big-talk... but then again I never had the "Big-Talk" and well.... anyone who makes it past age ten or eleven and "don't know where puppies come from" ... need more than a sex-ed class can provide.

And with the intenet at every kids finger tips what question or info could be kept from them?

MC, you notice we always end up at the same place in our discussions.... Me saying you have a right to implement your ideas in your family

And you saying I must implement your ideas in "my" family.

Why can't you be content to limit your grand ideas to your own life... you insist everyone submit your

values and politics.

Tsk tsk tsk

[Peikko 1,575]

Danno, knowledge isn't dangerous. You are dazzled by whatever religious readings you buy into thinking that sex education is a bad idea because you erroniously believe this ridiculous idea that sex education demands that teenagers factually experiment with sexual knowledge in a way that could not were they not to have been given this information. That is absurd. Sex education is not indoctrination into any value system at all it is simply a very efficient way to ensure that all teenagers are armed with knowledge about sex and its implications, not heresay and superstition.

Nothing at all to do with values and politics Danno, not one darned thing.

Edited October 5, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[Marzy 1]

That's why there is a lot young baby mamas.

[Danno 1,228]

Danno, knowledge isn't dangerous. You are dazzled by whatever religious readings you buy into thinking that sex education is a bad idea because you erroniously believe this ridiculous idea that sex education demands that teenagers factually experiment with sexual knowledge in a way that could not were they not to have been given this information. That is absurd. Sex education is not indoctrination into any value system at all it is simply a very efficient way to ensure that all teenagers are armed with knowledge about sex and its implications, not heresay and superstition.

Nothing at all to do with values and politics Danno, not one darned thing.

Funny you mention that because a number of years ago, some people abjected to the suggesting that being a "single mother" being a bad-thing.

Why.... because some of the kids in the class are in fact, the product of a single mother.

And so it gets more and more silly, which leads me to believe all needed info can be taught in a biology class and let the learning take place on that level.

Conversations about "fisting"... I'm thinking, don't have a place in school... yet they are.

[AlHayatZween 2]

However, it's the private industry that promotes this behavior and covers it up as freedom of expression. You are no longer permitted to film porn in Aus. You are not permitted to buy x rate porn there. Religion is perfectly acceptable in schools, as is the right to not participate.

:o

Holy smokes!

[AlHayatZween 2]

Schools often do teach children about the consequences of sex too soon. And other responsibilities.

Schools in our county offer a class in basic living - how to balance a checkbook and do banking; how to budget; how to get the basic things in life done like have utilities turned on; etc.

As part of this class they have a 'pregnancy belly' that each student - female and male - gets to wear for 24 hours. There's another exercise done with an egg as if the egg were a baby. They have to either carry it to class or on dates or to the mall or find day-care for it without breaking it.

For 'flashback' purposes - 35 years ago when I was in high school, they taught us sex education, including how to avoid STD's. It ain't something new.

This is true. i can't speak for every school out there, and i can't say that Sex Ed and Health Ed doesn't get shafted (please forgive the pun) in some schools' endeavors to have the students pass standardized tests; however, many teachers and school nurses are teaching about the consequences of sex and poor choices.

You can't blame teachers and the schools for everything. At some point, the parent has to step up and be a parent.

[HYENA 4]

I think it's supposed to add credibility to the Jesus franchise. Who could possibly come up with

such a ridiculous story? It must be true then...

I have never heard of a Jesus Franchise?...?...?...? but, I will grant you/agree with you completely that it is difficult to understand to understand the Trinity...and yes...it requires some amount of faith, which is precisely why I believe it. It is a mystery.

You believe in something because it doesn't make sense and requires one to dismiss the normal physical laws that we experience every day? I see

No, not really. I believe because its in my , it doesn't have anything to do with normal physical laws that we experience every day. I just happen to think that God might be above those laws... Would you agree that this is possible? Just curious?

Man has the innate nature to believe in something higher then them. A unique gift.

Add any group of humans and eventually some sort of higher power will be recognized and worshiped. Therein lies the faith argument some deflect.

We do have in God we trust on our fiat money.

[mawilson 2,133]

It's only a matter of time before high schools start teaching poll dancing and how to give the ideal ####### .

I'm looking forward to that

Edited October 5, 2009 by mawilson

[mawilson 2,133]

However, it's the private industry that promotes this behavior and covers it up as freedom of expression. You are no longer permitted to film porn in Aus. You are not permitted to buy x rate porn there.

That sucks. No wonder young Aussies are leaving their country in droves.