Los Angeles approves plan to turn over 250 public schools to private operators

[HAL 9000 96]

There are currently opportunities within the curriculum for students to take electives, but I'm proposing that the ONLY required courses, from PK-12, focus on those universal skills I mentioned above and allow exposure to experiences and disciplines that expand thinking, such as the arts. There can still be opportunity for students to study Shakespeare, for example, if they want, but it should not be required. I'll bet it is currently required in just about every system in the US in English III or IV.

Certainly, students should have the opportunity to study courses that are required for whatever post-secondary training they elect to pursue. I agree that this becomes an issue with making such a choice at an early age, but the alternative is to choose for every student and that is a disaster, IMO.

A lot of school districts count their success by how many students go on to college, but I think that is part of the problem. I would not discourage anyone from going to college, but for a school to hold their college-bound students as evidence of success is to suggest that students who become plumbers, hair dressers, daycare workers, med techs, or janitors, are the failures, or at least not as great of a success. That is the elitist attitude I'm talking about. Without people who are proud of their choices to pursue these sorts of jobs, we really are up sh*t creek. And why does someone who is happy to become a janitor and will be good at the job need to learn to evaluate literature if he doesn't want to? It often just makes him bitter and makes him feel like a failure. And that is reinforced when we consider his job something we don't want our students to end up doing.

Gotcha. Indeed... before Shakespeare I think the kids should have a firm grasp of grammar and the mechanism of the English language. Either way you look at it... critical thinking can only benefit from having the basics completely mastered in ANY subject. You may be thinking of high school curricula... but remember that intellectual mindsets are mostly created much before that.

And I think it should be imperative that any curriculum at its basic level should emphasize critical thinking skills so that once these students enter their respective career fields they are not locked into said areas of work- be it blue collar or white. People often change out of nascent self-interest too...

[HAL 9000 96]

Its a bit more complicated than mere money. We're talking about community improvement- education, rezoning, replanning... things many areas prefer to let real estate developers tackle as they tax people out of these areas to later redevelop via gentrification. The ghetto just moves out to outlying areas in that case.

Community renewal costs, IMO, less than hard-lining people into jail as a predominant model of community clean-up. I don't know why many realize this- perhaps they'd rather not see people from the inner cities achieve more to out-compete them for their 'livelihood' in a limited resources model of capital acquisition?

Attitudes must therefore change across the board- not just in the ghetto.

I'm not disagreeing. Coming from overseas, it clear that there are people who don't give a ####### about others let alone their misfortune. In particular, those who are doing well and live around large cities or metro areas. For some reason they don't seem to get the value of improving other areas. As long as they have their mansion and gated community, they're set. This third world like, this line of reasoning is totally alien to me.

I also think that it's in everyone's interest to get people out of the ghetto and poverty; have them turn into tax paying citizens. We all win really. However, there does come a point where those that are poor have to meet us half way. I have been to areas where it's quite obvious that the younger generation view being ghetto as being cool. Therefore, how do I explain to that guy that it's not? This applies to all races equally might I add. Uncivilized is the new cool. Denial is also quite common. How many people here alone argue with me about Australia? As if I am lying about their success and prosperity. The difference between a blue collar worker there to one here is huuuge. How do I go to someone that is white trash and say, hey you should push your kids to learn? Seriously how?

The middle class cannot agree on issues such as health care. So how the heck is someone who may not even view living in poverty as a problem to see it otherwise? To the contrary this popularity in being ghetto is also gaining traction overseas, in places like AUS. People there receive more in welfare than some earn on minimum wage here. So once again, money is not the issues. In my opinion, if we ever want to fix the poverty in the US we need to attack it at the heart. That is make sure people view being ghetto, white trash, gang banging or a freagin redneck is not cool but moronic.

Indeed. Problem is... in a capitalist society, money is what moves any kind of change in society beyond random shifts in social attitude. Granted many folks have already outlined strategies for getting the ghetto out of people... but without investment at all levels that is impossible.

[Heracles 417]

A lot of school districts count their success by how many students go on to college, but I think that is part of the problem. I would not discourage anyone from going to college, but for a school to hold their college-bound students as evidence of success is to suggest that students who become plumbers, hair dressers, daycare workers, med techs, or janitors, are the failures, or at least not as great of a success. That is the elitist attitude I'm talking about. Without people who are proud of their choices to pursue these sorts of jobs, we really are up sh*t creek. And why does someone who is happy to become a janitor and will be good at the job need to learn to evaluate literature if he doesn't want to? It often just makes him bitter and makes him feel like a failure. And that is reinforced when we consider his job something we don't want our students to end up doing.

You know what, that is a very important difference between US schools and that of other contries that i have noticed. College is only one avenue pushed at high-school. I have numerous friends and cousins who over here would be considered dropkicks because they pursued a trade or business. They are now extremely wealthy, much wealthy than numerous people here who went to college.

How's this for irony, Australia has a huge skilled labor shortage, due to so many kids going to college. Not to long ago I spoke to a old lecturer of mine who said he wished he pursued trade school as he would have been an extremely wealthy man, rather than slaving away in an office. The labor issues is a whole other story here, pf course, since we allow millions of undocumented people to enter and take up jobs, suppressing the wage and future of anyone who has a skill (a talent) in a trade. Therefore, you either get to college, a field hard to crack by illegal immigrants or you line yourself up for a walmart job. Whereas, everyone has an opportunity to earn a fair wage in AUS.

[GabiandVi 34]

I also think that it's in everyone's interest to get people out of the ghetto and poverty; have them turn into tax paying citizens. We all win really. However, there does come a point where those that are poor have to meet us half way. I have been to areas where it's quite obvious that the younger generation view being ghetto as being cool. Therefore, how do I explain to that guy that it's not? This applies to all races equally might I add. Uncivilized is the new cool.

It's not so much as it is cool to be ghetto as it is generational. It is what you know. If your only experiences are in the ghetto, how can you imagine being any other way. We are all the same when it comes to this. The difference is that we have opportunities to experience other things to open our minds to other ways of being. Still, we often choose to return to our roots.

I agree, however, that the "poor" have to be held responsible at some point. To not hold them responsible for themselves is to enslave them. This is part of the reason we have such ghettos.

Denial is also quite common. How many people here alone argue with me about Australia? As if I am lying about their success and prosperity. The difference between a blue collar worker there to one here is huuuge.

I'm going to disagree with you here. Some of my best friends are teachers from Australia. I always believed that the kind of hopeless ignorance and devastating indifference I witnessed in the US was a uniquely American problem until they began to tell me stories of their experiences. I would counter with, "But you don't understand what we are facing in the US," and they would always come back with the same sorts of stories.

Your experiences do not reflect theirs, but that does not mean theirs do not exist. It took me years to believe that the same sort of underclass exists in Australia, but apparantly it does.

[Heracles 417]

Indeed. Problem is... in a capitalist society, money is what moves any kind of change in society beyond random shifts in social attitude. Granted many folks have already outlined strategies for getting the ghetto out of people... but without investment at all levels that is impossible.

Companies are not interested in investing in America. They'd rather save a buck and boost China's poor. Unfortunately the middle class and poor have not woken up to this. How many blue collar workers in OT alone think the government is bad while walmart is apparently 'looking out for them'?

This is where the government is supposed to step in. Unfortunately America has a huge deficit on good, honest, and caring leaders. Many are all show. I was thinking about this the other day. Certain AA leaders in DC will show their face in a heart beat when it comes to gaining publicity regarding the hint of a race issue. Yet, I have never ever seen them stand up and say we need to stamp out poverty or crime from our communities. Even when AA kids are shot riding their bikes or walking to school. Nope, not a single word. Yet let a news story break on a Caucasian cop looking at a black male who has been arrested 9 times funny, I guarantee you will see their faces on TV condoning this behavior and demanding an inquiry.

And you know what, people vote these leaders in again and again. then these same people turn around and say the "guvamint" doesn't care about me.

[Heracles 417]

Denial is also quite common. How many people here alone argue with me about Australia? As if I am lying about their success and prosperity. The difference between a blue collar worker there to one here is huuuge.

I'm going to disagree with you here. Some of my best friends are teachers from Australia. I always believed that the kind of hopeless ignorance and devastating indifference I witnessed in the US was a uniquely American problem until they began to tell me stories of their experiences. I would counter with, "But you don't understand what we are facing in the US," and they would always come back with the same sorts of stories.

Your experiences do not reflect theirs, but that does not mean theirs do not exist. It took me years to believe that the same sort of underclass exists in Australia, but apparantly it does.

I'm not denying it. But the problem with the poor is quite isolated there. It's nowhere near as widespread as it is here. Not even by a long shot. Sure they also have their own issues but I'll be damned if I ever heard of a kid being shot while going to school. Or while planing in the front of their yard.

Acting in an uncivilized manner or being cool by means of ghetto is also common in poor communities there. When it comes to the US, we can say we do not exactly help them; or we can blame it on historical reasons. What excuse do these clowns have in Australia, Canada or the UK? You even get paid to go to school or college in AUS. Paid as in $371.40 every fortnight to go to school. Only one I can think of: culture / attitude of the demographic.

What is one thing all of these types of misfits have in common? Broken families or inattentive parent/s. Something no amount of money can fix. It's a byproduct of a free society. Over here it's much worse because most people literally don't give a #######. The upper middle class kid or parent wouldn't think about a poor kid in the ghetto for even a second.

Edited August 28, 2009 by haza

[GabiandVi 34]

There are currently opportunities within the curriculum for students to take electives, but I'm proposing that the ONLY required courses, from PK-12, focus on those universal skills I mentioned above and allow exposure to experiences and disciplines that expand thinking, such as the arts. There can still be opportunity for students to study Shakespeare, for example, if they want, but it should not be required. I'll bet it is currently required in just about every system in the US in English III or IV.

Certainly, students should have the opportunity to study courses that are required for whatever post-secondary training they elect to pursue. I agree that this becomes an issue with making such a choice at an early age, but the alternative is to choose for every student and that is a disaster, IMO.

A lot of school districts count their success by how many students go on to college, but I think that is part of the problem. I would not discourage anyone from going to college, but for a school to hold their college-bound students as evidence of success is to suggest that students who become plumbers, hair dressers, daycare workers, med techs, or janitors, are the failures, or at least not as great of a success. That is the elitist attitude I'm talking about. Without people who are proud of their choices to pursue these sorts of jobs, we really are up sh*t creek. And why does someone who is happy to become a janitor and will be good at the job need to learn to evaluate literature if he doesn't want to? It often just makes him bitter and makes him feel like a failure. And that is reinforced when we consider his job something we don't want our students to end up doing.

Gotcha. Indeed... before Shakespeare I think the kids should have a firm grasp of grammar and the mechanism of the English language. Either way you look at it... critical thinking can only benefit from having the basics completely mastered in ANY subject. You may be thinking of high school curricula... but remember that intellectual mindsets are mostly created much before that.

And I think it should be imperative that any curriculum at its basic level should emphasize critical thinking skills so that once these students enter their respective career fields they are not locked into said areas of work- be it blue collar or white. People often change out of nascent self-interest too...

I totally agree. I should have indicated that I meant that the arts should be emphasized in primary school. By the time you reach secondary school, you should be choosing the arts you wish to study, such as Shakespeare. But, as it is primary school curricula are geared toward preparing students for secondary school curricula. Their curricula are certainly more focused on universal skills, but not enough so to suit my vision. Currently, the skills we need to focus on in early primary that we do not focus on enough are social skills and ethics, for example. We cannot change the attitudes that handicap so many of our youth unless we address them head on, and that has to start at the earliest age possible.

[Heracles 417]

It's not so much as it is cool to be ghetto as it is generational. It is what you know. If your only experiences are in the ghetto, how can you imagine being any other way. We are all the same when it comes to this. The difference is that we have opportunities to experience other things to open our minds to other ways of being. Still, we often choose to return to our roots.

Americans are notorious for not traveling. So it's not surprising that things considered the norm here are frowned on overseas. Like wearing clothes 12 times your size. Sorry but you look like an idiot. I wish I had enough money to pay for the middle-class and poor to travel abroad, to other developed countries. I would like to see the perspective of someone like Gary after a trip to Melbourne, AUS; where he gets to meet the Gary equivalent.

I have met poor folks living in a trailer here who actually think they're not doing too bad. Now I didn't want to offend them so I shut my mouth; however, I thought to myself you seriously cannot be that delusional. In that guys mind, in his perspective, he's not doing bad. That is a dangerous and slippy slope to travel as you will never improve; you will always excuse the reality and make yourself comfortable with it.

Edited August 28, 2009 by haza

[HAL 9000 96]

Yup. Social culture needs to be reset... but you know how opposed the current oligarchical system will be to that in the US right?

[HAL 9000 96]

It's not so much as it is cool to be ghetto as it is generational. It is what you know. If your only experiences are in the ghetto, how can you imagine being any other way. We are all the same when it comes to this. The difference is that we have opportunities to experience other things to open our minds to other ways of being. Still, we often choose to return to our roots.

Americans are notorious for not traveling. So it's not surprising that things considered the norm here are frowned on overseas. Like wearing clothes 12 times your size. Sorry but you look like an idiot. If I had enough money I wish the middle-class and poor could travel abroad, to other developed countries. I would like to see the perspective of someone like Gary after a trip to Melbourne, AUS; where he gets to meet the Gary equivalent.

I have seen poor folks living in trailer who actually think they're not doing too bad. Now I didn't want to offend them so I shut my mouth; however, I thought to myself you seriously cannot be that delusional. In that guys mind, in his perspective, he's not doing bad. That is a dangerous and slippy slope to travel as you will never improve; you will always excuse the reality and make yourself comfortable with it.

There are current programs, although critically small and obviously underfunded, that send inner city kids to help in infrastructure projects in the 3rd World for a summer. Talk about coming back with a fresh attitude about community. As far as I've seen in these projects, the kids return to turn into more productive members of the classroom and their homes (and communities). This is the kind of stuff that many neo-cons here love to target as 'liberal/socialist plans of indoctrination.' Sucks to be that mentally limited.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I think everyone in the world should move to Australia and turn it into a shithole.

[Heracles 417]

There are current programs, although critically small and obviously underfunded, that send inner city kids to help in infrastructure projects in the 3rd World for a summer. Talk about coming back with a fresh attitude about community. As far as I've seen in these projects, the kids return to turn into more productive members of the classroom and their homes (and communities). This is the kind of stuff that many neo-cons here love to target as 'liberal/socialist plans of indoctrination.' Sucks to be that mentally limited.

Yet these are the exact types of programs the US needs. I call them reality check programs.

[HAL 9000 96]

Go figure.

[Heracles 417]

I think everyone in the world should move to Australia and turn it into a shithole.

Being the key word. For that reason alone, they have controlled immigration and do not allow a flood of poor people to enter. They trickle them in so they too get actually a chance in improving their life; that is, rather than fighting with 50,000,000+ citizens already living in poverty or the additional 15,000,000 illegally there.

Edited August 28, 2009 by haza

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Do the US a favor, go home. I hate to see you suffer so much while you are here. Go whine where someone will care.

Dude shut up and get a life. For someone who is too good to post anything serious and views everything here as entertainment, you do spend a lot of time here; especially considering you joined in 2008 yet have a gazillion post count.

I post seriously quite frequently. I don't like it when foreingers bash America in every post. That's all. That should be easy to understand.

I think everyone in the world should move to Australia and turn it into a shithole.

Being the key word. For that reason alone, they have controlled immigration and do not allow a flood of poor people to enter. They trickle them in so they too get actually a chance in improving their life; that is, rather than fighting with 50,000,000+ living in poverty already there. As well as an additional 15,000,000 illegally there.

Don't leave mad. Just leave. You are a disgrace to the US and Australia.