Government Involvement in Employment

[Heracles 417]

Just curious - what is the pay for a job like at a local hardware store or a shoe salesman in AUS? Because 30 years ago, a person here in the states could make a living just doing that but not anymore.

For an adult, a job at their Lowes equivalent pays about $16 an hour. Plus 1.5 times for Sunday and any overtime (over 38 hours). Double rates on public holidays. Which I believe is a fair pay. Just because that person did not go to college doesn't mean we should treat them like a Roman slave. It's not the best pay but I have never heard of anyone needing to work two or more Jobs. What this means is that instead of buying a hammer for $5 (as you do here), you will pay $8.50. It is all relative though, as everyone earns more.

I have said this countless times, go to a Kmart store there and you will see friendly happy staff, as they are treated well. Go to a large city Walmart here and the look on the workers face (as well as their care factor) says a lot about their pay.

Even the garbage collectors there are on a at least $50K. The system works by ensuring those at the bottom receive a fair pay while those at the top don't earn as much. Everyone else also receives a fair wage and pays a fair amount of tax. Win / win for all. As the country performed better over the years, they decreased the tax rate.

ALDI and their international success is an example of how treating staff well pays off. They pay $19 per hour in AUS. Even here their pricing is generally cheaper than walmart. And do so without sticking it to their suppliers either. Wegmans in the NE is another great example. As is google.

Edited July 19, 2009 by haza

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Just curious - what is the pay for a job like at a local hardware store or a shoe salesman in AUS? Because 30 years ago, a person here in the states could make a living just doing that but not anymore.

For an adult, a job at their Lowes equivalent pays about $16 an hour. Plus 1.5 times for Sunday and any overtime (over 38 hours). Double rates on public holidays. Which I believe is a fair pay. Just because that person did not go to college doesn't mean we should treat them like a Roman slave. It's not the best pay but I have never heard of anyone needing to work two or more Jobs. What this means is that instead of buying a hammer for $5 (as you do here), you will pay $8.50. It is all relative though, as everyone earns more.

I have said this countless times, go to a Kmart store there and you will see friendly happy staff, as they are treated well. Go to a large city Walmart here and the look on the workers face (as well as their care factor) says a lot about their pay.

Even the garbage collectors there are on a at least $50K. The system works by ensuring those at the bottom receive a fair pay while those at the top don't earn as much. Everyone else also receives a fair wage and pays a fair amount of tax. Win / win for all. As the country performed better over the years, they decreased the tax rate.

ALDI and their international success is an example of how treating staff well pays off. They pay $19 per hour in AUS. Even here their pricing is generally cheaper than walmart. And do so without sticking it to their suppliers either. Wegmans in the NE is another great example. As is google.

Thanks for the info. Very interesting. Australia manages to thrive in a global economy while still being able to pay livable wages.

[Heracles 417]

Thanks for the info. Very interesting. Australia manages to thrive in a global economy while still being able to pay livable wages.

I just so happen to be talking about fair wage with my wife today and mentioned how my cousin and her husband are both public school teachers in Victoria. Schools are state run for obvious efficiency benefits. They recently purchased a new house five minutes from the beach in Melbourne. Whereas, you would never hear of such a story here. To the contrary, I regularly hear of teachers, police and public servants that cannot afford to live in the same county they work in here.

Edited July 19, 2009 by haza

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I regularly hear of teachers, police and public servants that cannot afford to live in the same county they work in here.

Aye.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Don't dare try to tell them that other countries have higher GNP, quality of life, better healthcare...they'll hang you from a tree for treason. In their view, we are number one, except for our government, but all governments suck so there you have it.

The difference is once the government mandates paid vacation days the costs are passed on to consumers or taxpayers and if vacation is that important, look for a job with that benefit.

The other richer nations are tiny states that are financial centers or are oil exporters. Even Western European countries have declining populations and restrict immigration and structurally high unemployment so these things wouldn't work well here. Obama's accelerating the socialism in America with high and reduced hours unemployment in exchange for health care benefits.

1 Liechtenstein $ 118,000 2007 est.

2 Qatar $ 103,500 2008 est.

3 Luxembourg $ 81,100 2008 est.

4 Bermuda $ 69,900 2004 est.

5 Kuwait $ 57,400 2008 est.

6 Jersey $ 57,000 2005 est.

7 Norway $ 55,200 2008 est.

8 Brunei $ 53,100 2008 est.

9 Singapore $ 52,000 2008 est.

10 United States $ 47,000 2008 est.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...r/2004rank.html

It is a bit wacky to allege the current unemployment issue in the US is because of Obama's health care plan that does not exist yet, nor did it exist during the dates of your income statistics, and oh ya...

OBAMA WAS NOT THE PRESIDENT IN 2007 OR 2008....

One gets the impression either you are so independently wealthy you don't work alien, or do you walk the walk, working 7 days a week, 16 hours a day so your boss doesn't have to waste his precious profit on socialist concepts like taking time off?

[mawilson 2,133]

Why is the US different then? Is it that our businesses are inferior and need that extra few weeks a year to stay alive??

No, our businesses are superior because our government doesn't tell them how they ought to be run.

European businesses would then never have a shot competing with these superior US businesses. And yet, the companies in those socialist countries with their inferior businesses manage to compete in the US market better than the is the case the other way around. That's mighty odd, isn't it?

They compete rather poorly, no?

How many Apples, Googles and Intels are there in Europe?

Why do Europeans run Microsoft's software on their computers? Crappy as it is, they haven't produced anything better.

[mawilson 2,133]

Really? Wishful thinking? Is that what it is? Europe produces for and exports to the US way more than is the case the other way around. How is that possible seeing that not only are the European businesses inferior to their US counterparts but also do they have to overcome the additional burden of a dirt cheap dollar.

Certain things made in Europe are considered a symbol of status - German cars, French champagne, etc.

Nothing to do with their competitiveness.

[mawilson 2,133]

Really? Wishful thinking? Is that what it is? Europe produces for and exports to the US way more than is the case the other way around. How is that possible seeing that not only are the European businesses inferior to their US counterparts but also do they have to overcome the additional burden of a dirt cheap dollar.

Of the 15 countries with the largest trade imbalances with the US (as of May 2009),

only three are European (excluding oil-exporting Russia.)

• China, $17.48 billion
• Mexico, $3.94 billion
• Japan, $1.91 billion
• Ireland, $1.62 billion
• Russia, $1.33 billion
• Germany, $1.29 billion
• Venezuela, $1.27 billion
• Saudi Arabia, $1.07 billion
• Malaysia, $957 million
• Italy, $928 million
• Thailand, $903 million
• Taiwan, $858 million
• Nigeria, $824 million
• South Korea, $707 million
• Canada, $628 million

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Why is the US different then? Is it that our businesses are inferior and need that extra few weeks a year to stay alive??

No, our businesses are superior because our government doesn't tell them how they ought to be run.

European businesses would then never have a shot competing with these superior US businesses. And yet, the companies in those socialist countries with their inferior businesses manage to compete in the US market better than the is the case the other way around. That's mighty odd, isn't it?

They compete rather poorly, no?

How many Apples, Googles and Intels are there in Europe?

Why do Europeans run Microsoft's software on their computers? Crappy as it is, they haven't produced anything better.

Its interesting that you focused on tech here. Lets expand shall we? Auto Industry ...oops yeah that's a sore subject for America isn't it...seems detroit forgot how to make cars. Okay how about Air...oh damn seems airbus is out selling BoePing...okay well there is always beer right? Oh wait is there even a large company left in the US? Poor Budweiser (I'm from STL so this is a little sore for me)

Okay I've got it! Renewables! Who makes the most windfarms...oh wait thats Vestas nevermind on that one.

Right lets fall back on oil...oh nevermind thats shell - UK.

Banking? I'm pretty sure thats HSBC (this may have changed recently...not to sure here)

It seems like the only leaders in the US are Microsoft and Walmart....and lets be honest both don't exactly play fair do they.

[Heracles 417]

Techs also pay extremely well. I can vouch for that. I don't know of many on minimum wage in the tech industry. A google employee for example receives greater fringe benefits alone than someone working an 80 hour week on minimum wage. Techs actually illustrate that paying people a good wage as well as providing them with great benefits does pay off. If you look at most companies abroad that deliver a great product, they too pay well.

Walmart has only succeeded because they initiated a race-to-the-bottom and won. Furthermore, they bankrupted many US industries and town in the name of cheap #######. Then they sold out to China and the next lowest bidder. As a government I would never have allowed that. I want three or four Walmarts competing with each other rather than one. Economics 101: Monopolies do not benefit anyone apart from the monopoly and it's shareholders. The rise of cheap and nasty in the 70's and 80's is the cause of a lot of the poverty the country is facing today. While China is cheap, America and American consumers should have focused on quality rather than quantity. The consumer is also to blame as they shot themselves in the foot. Instead of buying seven TVs, buy two that are American made. Sure you will pay more but you will also provide the opportunity for others to work and so on.

Edited July 19, 2009 by haza

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Why is the US different then? Is it that our businesses are inferior and need that extra few weeks a year to stay alive??

No, our businesses are superior because our government doesn't tell them how they ought to be run.

European businesses would then never have a shot competing with these superior US businesses. And yet, the companies in those socialist countries with their inferior businesses manage to compete in the US market better than the is the case the other way around. That's mighty odd, isn't it?

Actually they don't compete better. That is wishful thinking

Really? Wishful thinking? Is that what it is? Europe produces for and exports to the US way more than is the case the other way around. How is that possible seeing that not only are the European businesses inferior to their US counterparts but also do they have to overcome the additional burden of a dirt cheap dollar.

It is nice when they have governments there that obstruct any business out side their own to do business. Of course we have some but not even close to their level. No their business models can't compete with our models unless they have their government protecting them from us.

I also have a friend running a business in Germany and he has quite a few employees. He is disgusted with their work ethic and laziness.

Oh, so now the European governments are shielding their inferior businesses from the mighty superiority of US businesses? :rofl:

Can you tell me which government over there is doing what exactly to protect their business from the US superiority? :rofl:

And not to forget, you should tell your loser friend that he's either done a pizz-poor job hiring the right people for the job or that he's doing a pizz-poor job of keeping his employees motivated. Either way, he's done something wrong if all he has are unmotivated employees.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Mr. Big Dog

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Really? Wishful thinking? Is that what it is? Europe produces for and exports to the US way more than is the case the other way around. How is that possible seeing that not only are the European businesses inferior to their US counterparts but also do they have to overcome the additional burden of a dirt cheap dollar.

Of the 15 countries with the largest trade imbalances with the US (as of May 2009),

only three are European (excluding oil-exporting Russia.)

• China, $17.48 billion
• Mexico, $3.94 billion
• Japan, $1.91 billion
• Ireland, $1.62 billion
• Russia, $1.33 billion
• Germany, $1.29 billion
• Venezuela, $1.27 billion
• Saudi Arabia, $1.07 billion
• Malaysia, $957 million
• Italy, $928 million
• Thailand, $903 million
• Taiwan, $858 million
• Nigeria, $824 million
• South Korea, $707 million
• Canada, $628 million

Let's look at it this way: The socialist countries of Germany, France, UK, Italy and Spain - when combined - roughly equate the US in population (312 vs. 304) and GDP (13.2tn vs. 14.2tn). These socialist failures with their inferior businesses somehow export USD 190 billion to the US and import USD 104 billion from the US. Quite a failure and strong proof of their inferiority indeed. Or maybe not.

Really? Wishful thinking? Is that what it is? Europe produces for and exports to the US way more than is the case the other way around. How is that possible seeing that not only are the European businesses inferior to their US counterparts but also do they have to overcome the additional burden of a dirt cheap dollar.

Certain things made in Europe are considered a symbol of status - German cars, French champagne, etc.

Nothing to do with their competitiveness.

Status symbols despite their inferiority?

[mawilson 2,133]

Really? Wishful thinking? Is that what it is? Europe produces for and exports to the US way more than is the case the other way around. How is that possible seeing that not only are the European businesses inferior to their US counterparts but also do they have to overcome the additional burden of a dirt cheap dollar.

Certain things made in Europe are considered a symbol of status - German cars, French champagne, etc.

Nothing to do with their competitiveness.

Status symbols despite their inferiority?

Status symbols because they are expensive. Some people here will buy a steaming pile of ####### as long as it says "Made in Europe".

[mawilson 2,133]

Let's look at it this way: The socialist countries of Germany, France, UK, Italy and Spain - when combined - roughly equate the US in population (312 vs. 304) and GDP (13.2tn vs. 14.2tn). These socialist failures with their inferior businesses somehow export USD 190 billion to the US and import USD 104 billion from the US. Quite a failure and strong proof of their inferiority indeed. Or maybe not.

I'm not sure what the trade imbalance really proves. We have a huge trade imbalance with Saudi Arabia,

does it mean its economy is stronger than ours?

Hell, the US and Europe both have huge trade imbalances with China - guess we should all look to China for economic lessons!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Really? Wishful thinking? Is that what it is? Europe produces for and exports to the US way more than is the case the other way around. How is that possible seeing that not only are the European businesses inferior to their US counterparts but also do they have to overcome the additional burden of a dirt cheap dollar.

Certain things made in Europe are considered a symbol of status - German cars, French champagne, etc.

Nothing to do with their competitiveness.

Status symbols despite their inferiority?

Status symbols because they are expensive. Some people here will buy a steaming pile of ####### as long as it says "Made in Europe".

Come on, now. Are you suggesting that a Cadillac can actually compete with a Benz?