Certified Translations

[Dave-n-Oksana 49]

Okay, following the advice given here I have brought my question to the all knowing and all wise members of the Russian Forum.

My fiancee has been gathering information for her and her daughter's K-1/2 Kiev interview and she has amassed a large stack of information about what is required from numerous websites (including one known for inaccurate information). She is under the impression that all Russian/Ukrainian documents will need to be translated, certified and notarized.

I thought that they only needed to be translated and certified, but she is adamant and I told her that I would ask here from those who have gone through Kyev.

If I am correct that brings up the other question. How do you tell a woman she is wrong and get her to believe it??

Dave

[Vegabond 0]

Dave. most of the places that translate will have a notary on board.. it costs a few extra dollars to Notarize and will not hurt the process. I did that ... Another good thing... if the school records can be obtained, translated and notarized.. it will help with job or further schooling here.

[Joe_&_Nadiya 1]

Okay, following the advice given here I have brought my question to the all knowing and all wise members of the Russian Forum.

My fiancee has been gathering information for her and her daughter's K-1/2 Kiev interview and she has amassed a large stack of information about what is required from numerous websites (including one known for inaccurate information). She is under the impression that all Russian/Ukrainian documents will need to be translated, certified and notarized.

I thought that they only needed to be translated and certified, but she is adamant and I told her that I would ask here from those who have gone through Kyev.

If I am correct that brings up the other question. How do you tell a woman she is wrong and get her to believe it??

Dave

Dave,

Translated and certified (what they call an Apostile) there, but only for certain documents....If you go to the U.S. Embassy's website for Ukraine, you will find a link to the "Information Packet". which contains a list of everything she will need for the interview (Originals versus Copies versus Translated/Certified documents)...I went through the same process...

Here's the link: http://kyiv.usembassy.gov/visa_iv_forms_eng.html

Now, in regards to the second question.....oohh boy, you are in trouble.....but, my suggestion would be, send her this same link.

[Dave-n-Oksana 49]

Dave. most of the places that translate will have a notary on board.. it costs a few extra dollars to Notarize and will not hurt the process. I did that ... Another good thing... if the school records can be obtained, translated and notarized.. it will help with job or further schooling here.

Here is the thing, my fiancee's english instructor is doing the translation for us, and I would just like to keep the process as simple as possible. The more steps in the process means another point of confusion. I have no problem having documents notarized, but if they are not needed why add it to the mix. Also the budget is very tight and the thought of spending money when it is not needed is against our natures. (When I was there it cost us 200 - 400 Hryvnia at the Notary office for a Divorce translation).

We know that we need to do the school records as her daughter is giving up 3 years at the University and is going to start over here in the States (her idea, not ours) but I am not going to let her throw away those years. Thanks for the reminder though.

[slim 1,533]

How do you tell a woman she is wrong and get her to believe it?

You can't tell her. You have to show her and then politely remind her after the fact. "Remember when I told you this is the correct way and you didn't believe me? Well, now here's proof, and it would be nice to hear you acknowledge that you were incorrect. It would be super nice, even to the point of impossiblity, to hear you say that your husband was correct even after you were not."

"No. Didn't think so. Well, whether you admit it or not, we now have photographic evidence of the proof."

Good luck with that one, Dave.

Another good thing... if the school records can be obtained, translated and notarized.. it will help with job or further schooling here.

School records have nothing to do with K-2. If you're going to use them in hopes of getting credit applied toward schooling here in the U.S., you'll probably have to go through an accreditation service and it will depend on their individual requirements on certification. Sometimes that's an apostile, sometimes it's a mere translation, sometimes it's nothing. Check with them.

Either way, don't spend money at this time to get them notarized.

I have no problem having documents notarized, but if they are not needed why add it to the mix.

For K-1/2 the only thing that should need notarized is the divorce papers and that's only because it needs to be an "official document" and has nothing to do with whether or not the translation is official. As a general rule, translations don't need to be "official" unless they're "official" documents. Think of it in terms of sending in your supporting evidence. Does it really matter if your plane ticket is notarized? (For that matter, don't translate your plane ticket either, it's obvious what it is.)

The only reason translations are done is so Monesha, who's sitting there in California entering your data with those three inch press-on nails, can read it. She doesn't need to see a notary stamp on everything to know it's an official translation because your fiancee's English teacher wrote a statement that said "Hey Monesha, I can read/write English and this is what all that squggly goobamogook says." She doesn't really care about the authenticity. All she cares about is reading it.

Down the road, when Secret Agent Smith starts reviewing your case, she's going to look at all your papers and then see one that's translated as a divorce decree. A little lightbulb in her head will go off and she'll ask, "Where is the..... Aha! Here it is. That's the notary stamp and this is an official document."

We know that we need to do the school records as her daughter is giving up 3 years at the University and is going to start over here in the States (her idea, not ours) but I am not going to let her throw away those years.

Separate issues. See above about the accreditation process. Several folks on here have done just that and could probably point you in the right direction.

[Dave-n-Oksana 49]

How do you tell a woman she is wrong and get her to believe it?

You can't tell her. You have to show her and then politely remind her after the fact. "Remember when I told you this is the correct way and you didn't believe me? Well, now here's proof, and it would be nice to hear you acknowledge that you were incorrect. It would be super nice, even to the point of impossiblity, to hear you say that your husband was correct even after you were not."

"No. Didn't think so. Well, whether you admit it or not, we now have photographic evidence of the proof."

Good luck with that one, Dave.

Another good thing... if the school records can be obtained, translated and notarized.. it will help with job or further schooling here.

School records have nothing to do with K-2. If you're going to use them in hopes of getting credit applied toward schooling here in the U.S., you'll probably have to go through an accreditation service and it will depend on their individual requirements on certification. Sometimes that's an apostile, sometimes it's a mere translation, sometimes it's nothing. Check with them.

Either way, don't spend money at this time to get them notarized.

I have no problem having documents notarized, but if they are not needed why add it to the mix.

For K-1/2 the only thing that should need notarized is the divorce papers and that's only because it needs to be an "official document" and has nothing to do with whether or not the translation is official. As a general rule, translations don't need to be "official" unless they're "official" documents. Think of it in terms of sending in your supporting evidence. Does it really matter if your plane ticket is notarized? (For that matter, don't translate your plane ticket either, it's obvious what it is.)

The only reason translations are done is so Monesha, who's sitting there in California entering your data with those three inch press-on nails, can read it. She doesn't need to see a notary stamp on everything to know it's an official translation because your fiancee's English teacher wrote a statement that said "Hey Monesha, I can read/write English and this is what all that squggly goobamogook says." She doesn't really care about the authenticity. All she cares about is reading it.

Down the road, when Secret Agent Smith starts reviewing your case, she's going to look at all your papers and then see one that's translated as a divorce decree. A little lightbulb in her head will go off and she'll ask, "Where is the..... Aha! Here it is. That's the notary stamp and this is an official document."

We know that we need to do the school records as her daughter is giving up 3 years at the University and is going to start over here in the States (her idea, not ours) but I am not going to let her throw away those years.

Separate issues. See above about the accreditation process. Several folks on here have done just that and could probably point you in the right direction.

I want to thank everyone who has replied. I understand the requirements for the translation and certification; I am just questioning the need of the notarization at the embassy level. All the check lists states for documents are original, copy, and certified translations.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to argue until I hear the answer I want. I just want to know that when they say certified translation, what exactly do they mean. Is it a letter certifying a document was translated correctly by the translator, or is it an embossed stamp saying that the certification letter from the translator is certified?

Dave

[johnj 0]

How do you tell a woman she is wrong and get her to believe it?

So. If she's going to go through the roof if you don't notarize your translations, then hell, notarize the translations. I'm all about domestic harmony and picking my battles wisely, and to my mind this is a pretty small battle to win. So if you can't convince her, get 'em notarized and make her happy. Once you get to the AOS stage you'll be able to show her on a computer screen in front of both of you that such-and-such a thing is either necessary or not, and then it won't be such a big deal.

Okay folks, write this date on you daytimer, Mox and I agree. This is not a big deal, give her this one. If you are wrong and her particular interviewer requires the notary, you are sunk for the rest of your life and will never ever ever hear the end of this; spend the few rubles and let her win. Agree, pick you battles. Any former or current parent of a teenager knows this!

[johnj 0]

Okay folks, write this date on you daytimer, Mox and I agree. This is not a big deal, give her this one. If you are wrong and her particular interviewer requires the notary, you are sunk for the rest of your life and will never ever ever hear the end of this; spend the few rubles and let her win. Agree, pick you battles. Any former or current parent of a teenager knows this!

Hehe ...I didn't realize we disagreed so much

Really, we don't; just like to stir the pot

[Brad and Vika 129]

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to argue until I hear the answer I want. I just want to know that when they say certified translation, what exactly do they mean. Is it a letter certifying a document was translated correctly by the translator, or is it an embossed stamp saying that the certification letter from the translator is certified?

"Certified translation" just means that the translator "certifies" that they are fluent in both languages and that the translation is accurate. That's all there is to it. People waste time and money all the time getting the translations notarized, but it's not required or even encouraged.

How do you tell a woman she is wrong and get her to believe it?

So. If she's going to go through the roof if you don't notarize your translations, then hell, notarize the translations. I'm all about domestic harmony and picking my battles wisely, and to my mind this is a pretty small battle to win. So if you can't convince her, get 'em notarized and make her happy. Once you get to the AOS stage you'll be able to show her on a computer screen in front of both of you that such-and-such a thing is either necessary or not, and then it won't be such a big deal.

No doubt. It sounds like the few bucks spent to notarize it all is a small price to keep the peace. Trust me, it will not be the last time

[Dave-n-Oksana 49]

Thanks again everyone for the responses. This has been confusing as she has been reading forums on russian-fiancee and making more stress for herself than is needed. She has a lot going on at the moment so I promised I would do this research while she focuses on a crisis in her family.

Dave

[slim 1,533]

So. If she's going to go through the roof if you don't notarize your translations, then hell, notarize the translations. I'm all about domestic harmony and picking my battles wisely, and to my mind this is a pretty small battle to win. So if you can't convince her, get 'em notarized and make her happy. Once you get to the AOS stage you'll be able to show her on a computer screen in front of both of you that such-and-such a thing is either necessary or not, and then it won't be such a big deal.

NUTS! (Said in the context of being surrounded and outnumbered, asked to surrender.)

If she's so bent on getting them notarized, even after you've told her it's not necessary and especially given the cost of doing this useless thing, then have her do it on her dime. See how important it is then!

And guys, if you're "picking battles" while she's still over there, you've already lost the war. Plain and simple, what you say goes, especially if you're paying for 100% of this process. If she doesn't like it, TS, she can find another petitioner. I catch a lot of hell for being so poor here, but when I remind my wife that the only money she brought with her was the money left over from what I sent to her for the trip, she STFUs real quick. Then she gets going again on this or that and I politely remind her where the door is and how it swings freely on the hinges.

I'm all for having domestic harmony, but I refuse to pay for it. There's absolutely no reason harmony can't be achieved for little or no cost. But hey, good luck to you, I'm still working on it here. (And still being reminded I can't afford it.)

This is not a big deal, give her this one. If you are wrong and her particular interviewer requires the notary, you are sunk for the rest of your life and will never ever ever hear the end of this; spend the few rubles and let her win. Agree, pick you battles.

If you are not wrong, then do not compromise. If you compromise your stance, especially this early in the stage, she will be "right" about everything in the VJ process and probably a lot more stuff throughout your life. Stick to your guns! Or, like I said above, if it's so important for her to be right, then let her pay for it!

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Okay, following the advice given here I have brought my question to the all knowing and all wise members of the Russian Forum.

My fiancee has been gathering information for her and her daughter's K-1/2 Kiev interview and she has amassed a large stack of information about what is required from numerous websites (including one known for inaccurate information). She is under the impression that all Russian/Ukrainian documents will need to be translated, certified and notarized.

I thought that they only needed to be translated and certified, but she is adamant and I told her that I would ask here from those who have gone through Kyev.

If I am correct that brings up the other question. How do you tell a woman she is wrong and get her to believe it??

Dave

I can explain the consusion Dave.

Alla does translations from Russian and Ukrainian. The US CONSULATE requires ONLY that the translations be "certified" by the translator that the translator is competent in both languages and that it is a true and correct translation...PERIOD! You or Oksana can do the translations yourselves if you so choose and are able to

However, UKRAINIAN LAW requires that all translations done by a UKRAINIAN TRANSLATOR in UKRIANE, be notarized and certified and the translator must be certified by the government (licensed, basically) SO...IF Oksana has the translations done in UKRAINE by a UKRAINIAN translator all of the above is TRUE to mee Ukrainian law.

If the translations are done here, the translators statement and signature are all that is required.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

How do you tell a woman she is wrong and get her to believe it?

So. If she's going to go through the roof if you don't notarize your translations, then hell, notarize the translations. I'm all about domestic harmony and picking my battles wisely, and to my mind this is a pretty small battle to win. So if you can't convince her, get 'em notarized and make her happy. Once you get to the AOS stage you'll be able to show her on a computer screen in front of both of you that such-and-such a thing is either necessary or not, and then it won't be such a big deal.

Okay folks, write this date on you daytimer, Mox and I agree. This is not a big deal, give her this one. If you are wrong and her particular interviewer requires the notary, you are sunk for the rest of your life and will never ever ever hear the end of this; spend the few rubles and let her win. Agree, pick you battles. Any former or current parent of a teenager knows this!

Having explained the legal technicalities....just do what she wants. She is nervous, people tell her things. She believes them. She also believes drinking water with ice in it will make her ill...so what? she thinks moving air (a draft) will make her ill. She thinks if she sits on a stone or metal bench it will damager her "female parts" and make her sterile. Be prepared for this. Alla spent nearly a month collecting various documents saying she did not owe taxes for this or that, did not own a car, etc. She was told she needed these to leave Ukraine. I told her she did not. She believed her Ukrainian friends and wasted nearly a month doing all this. Finally I just gave up. Of course she never needed the documents, but it wasn't worth fighting over.

You will find this in your everyday life with her also...just get over it.

[Dave-n-Oksana 49]

And guys, if you're "picking battles" while she's still over there, you've already lost the war.

Hmmm. The "pick your battles" analogy only goes so far, methinks. After that...well, a bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver. Hopefully we're not thinking of our relationships in terms of wartime strategies or picking winners and losers.

If you are not wrong, then do not compromise. If you compromise your stance, especially this early in the stage, she will be "right" about everything in the VJ process and probably a lot more stuff throughout your life. Stick to your guns! Or, like I said above, if it's so important for her to be right, then let her pay for it!

So...er...you do understand how compromise works, right?

If money is super tight and having a couple documents notarized would break the bank, then I could almost see your argument. But I think it's safe to say that most people going through this process are already shelling out thousands of dollars, so what's a few more? Don't think of it as unnecessary paperwork, just think of it as another form of buying flowers. When you think of it like that, it's a helluva lot cheaper than Flamingo. Buy her a little peace of mind as a gift. She'll appreciate it far more than going through all the stress of thinking they're going to deny her only to find out you were right weeks later after her intestine has been twisted into granny knots.

Your advice on guns, freedom, and pie is almost always spot on my friend. But I'm going to have to insist you label your relationship advice "for entertainment purposes only." :D

Trust me. I take all of Slim's relationship advice as enterntainment only .

I do want to clarify that the notarization is not an argument or a sticking point for us. The statement about how to tell a woman she is wrong was meant purely in jest. Like the old joke, "if a man says something and a woman is not arround, is he still wrong??"

Thanks Gary about the information about the legalities involved. It explains how our translator was so well know at the Notary.

[johnj 0]

Slim; after you have raised a couple teenagers, you will qualified to comment on "picking your battles"