Christian Murdered for Drinking Tea from a Muslim Cup

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

None the less, what you are describing is not the muslim religion per se, and the adherents thereof, but a result of cultural manipulation. Striving to relate the two in order to justify the murder of anyone who adheres to the muslim relgion is disingenuous, worse offensive.

Im curious, then what do you think about the iraqi and pakistani men & some women that keep blowing themselves up and their own people on almost a daily basis? they are misguided by their religion arent they? bcz it sure as heck isnt a cultural (iraqi or pakistani thing) ...

[Peikko 1,575]

I think they have been manipulated by people who want power and who use any tool in the box to get it, be that tribal division, religion, whatever they can find.

What it is definitely not, is an example of muslim behaviour. There are many, many muslims who live peacefully. Who knew?

[Guderian 0]

What comparison? Please, elucidate, I'm all agog.

None the less, what you are describing is not the muslim religion per se, and the adherents thereof, but a result of cultural manipulation. Striving to relate the two in order to justify the murder of anyone who adheres to the muslim relgion is disingenuous, worse offensive.

Sadly, the Wahibist cultural manipulation, which goes back nearly a thousand years in the minority and has acheived prominence through it's violence within the last 40 years, is the face of ME Islam as we know it today. It does not represent Turkish Islam, or Chinese Islam, but it does influence most Islam in the ME, and in SEA to a degree. Unfortunately, it is also taught even within our own national borders, hence the prison convert who shot a pair of unarmed soldiers last week at a recruiting station. Such a hero of Islam he was, shooting 2 unarmed men while they stood unawares.

So the Wahibists are the Spanish Inquisition of Islam: does that invalidate the ongoing carnage for which they are responsible?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Suicide bombers are usually under-educated and/or psychologically vulnerable types manipulated into giving their lives for a cause. After all - it isn't the leaders of these movements who are detonating themselves all over the place - they get some other poor sod to do it for them.

Its not coincidence that they use religion as a tool to achieve that - but there's obviously a difference between what a mainstream religion advocates, and how defunct doctrines (like those that exist in the old testament) can be used as the ideological basis for extremist fringe cults.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

I think they have been manipulated by people who want power and who use any tool in the box to get it, be that tribal division, religion, whatever they can find.

What it is definitely not, is an example of muslim behaviour. There are many, many muslims who live peacefully. Who knew?

I have no doubt that there are many muslims that live peacefully bcz from my own experiences I worked alongside many of them for 9+ yrs. However, let me go back to the Danish cartoon drawing senario a couple years back, and many many of those peacefully living people became insane over a drawing. Thats not cultural, or people being manipulated by power or money.

[Peikko 1,575]

Did I say it did? No, what I said was, to use such examples in order to slander everyone who is muslim is disingenuous and it certainly does not make it ok to kill anyone who professes to be a muslim in order to stamp out the extremists. In fact, the results of such attempts appear to have the opposite effect. No surprises here.

I think they have been manipulated by people who want power and who use any tool in the box to get it, be that tribal division, religion, whatever they can find.

What it is definitely not, is an example of muslim behaviour. There are many, many muslims who live peacefully. Who knew?

I have no doubt that there are many muslims that live peacefully bcz from my own experiences I worked alongside many of them for 9+ yrs. However, let me go back to the Danish cartoon drawing senario a couple years back, and many many of those peacefully living people became insane over a drawing. Thats not cultural, or people being manipulated by power or money.

If you push against the religion instead of the extremists who use the religion for their own ends, you get these kinds of results.

[Nagishkaw 510]

No surprises here.

Word!

[Guderian 0]

If you push against the religion instead of the extremists who use the religion for their own ends, you get these kinds of results.

In that case, I appoint you as Doctor Of Selections. Who more suited for the job, than someone who can see the future. Now, if I can just find a train...

[panamania79 2]

WASHINGTON, June 12 /Christian Newswire/ -- International Christian Concern (www.persecution.org) has learned that radical Muslims running a tea stall beat a Christian man to death for using a cup designated for Muslims on May 9. The young man, Ishtiaq Masih, had ordered tea at a roadside stall in Machharkay village, Punjab, Pakistan, after his bus made a rest stop.

When Ishtiaq went to pay for his tea, the owner noticed that he was wearing a necklace with a cross and grabbed him, calling for his employees to bring anything available to beat him for violating a sign posted on the stall warning non-Muslims to declare their religion before being served. Ishtiaq had not noticed the warning sign before ordering his tea.

The owner and 14 of his employees beat Ishtiaq with stones, iron rods and clubs, and stabbed him multiple times with kitchen knives as Ishtiaq pleaded for mercy.

The other bus passengers and other passers-by finally intervened and took Ishtiaq to the Rural Health Center in the village. The doctor who took Ishtiaq's case told ICC that Ishtiaq had died due to excessive internal and external bleeding, a fractured skull, and brain injuries.

Makah Tea Stall is located on the Sukheki-Lahore highway and is owned by Mubarak Ali, a 42-year-old radical Muslim. ICC's correspondent visited the tea stall and observed that a large red warning sign with a death's head symbol was posted which read, "All non-Muslims should introduce their faith prior to ordering tea. This tea stall serves Muslims only." The warning also threatened anyone who violated the rule with "dire consequences."

A neighboring shopkeeper told ICC on condition of anonymity that all Ali's employees are former students of radical Muslim madrassas (seminaries).

Ishtiaq's family said that they immediately reported the incident to the police and filed a case against Ali. However, the murderers are still freely operating the tea stall.

When ICC asked the Pindi Bhatian Saddar police station about the murder, the police chief said that investigations were underway and they are treating it as a faith-based murder by biased Muslims. When asked about Ali's warning sign, police chief Muhammad Iftikhar Bajwa claimed that he could not take it down. However, the constitution of Pakistan explicitly prohibits such discrimination.

The public is encouraged to call the Pakistani embassy of their country to protest this heinous crime?

http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/3244010643.html

Some people take this religion stuff just a bit too far

[Peikko 1,575]

I see you already derailed yourself. No matter

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

Did I say it did? No, what I said was, to use such examples in order to slander everyone who is muslim is disingenuous and it certainly does not make it ok to kill anyone who professes to be a muslim in order to stamp out the extremists. In fact, the results of such attempts appear to have the opposite effect. No surprises here.

I think they have been manipulated by people who want power and who use any tool in the box to get it, be that tribal division, religion, whatever they can find.

What it is definitely not, is an example of muslim behaviour. There are many, many muslims who live peacefully. Who knew?

I have no doubt that there are many muslims that live peacefully bcz from my own experiences I worked alongside many of them for 9+ yrs. However, let me go back to the Danish cartoon drawing senario a couple years back, and many many of those peacefully living people became insane over a drawing. Thats not cultural, or people being manipulated by power or money.

If you push against the religion instead of the extremists who use the religion for their own ends, you get these kinds of results.

are there alot of people that think its ok to go around killing muslims? is that even actually happening? I just dont see that, I do however see alot of people trying to go out of their way so they dont offend anyone, and I hardly see people fussing over the times the extremists almost daily bomb their own innocent people.

[Peikko 1,575]

This is not a simple issue, and there are no simple solutions. I can and I do abhor the behaviour of people who kill on such flimsy pretexts but doing so is not going to change the reality of what is happening daily. It is also not clever or helpful to simply suggest that 'oh, that's what muslims do, one can't be surprised by their behaviour' in these anti muslim type diatribes. I have no solution for these problems but I can say with certainty that to sweep a broad brush of generalizations over a large group of people and suggest that it's the 'being muslim' that is the problem will make the situation worse, not better.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[sara..... 371]

Did I say it did? No, what I said was, to use such examples in order to slander everyone who is muslim is disingenuous and it certainly does not make it ok to kill anyone who professes to be a muslim in order to stamp out the extremists. In fact, the results of such attempts appear to have the opposite effect. No surprises here.

I think they have been manipulated by people who want power and who use any tool in the box to get it, be that tribal division, religion, whatever they can find.

What it is definitely not, is an example of muslim behaviour. There are many, many muslims who live peacefully. Who knew?

I have no doubt that there are many muslims that live peacefully bcz from my own experiences I worked alongside many of them for 9+ yrs. However, let me go back to the Danish cartoon drawing senario a couple years back, and many many of those peacefully living people became insane over a drawing. Thats not cultural, or people being manipulated by power or money.

If you push against the religion instead of the extremists who use the religion for their own ends, you get these kinds of results.

are there alot of people that think its ok to go around killing muslims? is that even actually happening? I just dont see that, I do however see alot of people trying to go out of their way so they dont offend anyone, and I hardly see people fussing over the times the extremists almost daily bomb their own innocent people.

all of it is wrong and most of us Muslims speak out about it.

these 14 people are a prime example of why Islam should be taught correctly what they did was take something and go wayyyyyyyyyy to far even if the person had not died there was no reason to what they did.

some of the hard core people that are extremest do not want to drink after a Christian because Muslims wash their mouth and nose, the extremest believe that drinking after a Christian can be harmful to them because most Christians do not wash the same as we do as in water in the nose, so they think drinking from something they drank from as dirty...........but the fact remains what they did was wrong completely wrong.

what i have seen some Muslims do if they have a problem with drinking or thinking that they should not drink after someone that does not wash the same as them is have separate cups or glasses to resolve the issue with out being insulting or resulting to violence

i repeat these people just used it as an excuse to murder thats it.

sara

[Peikko 1,575]

That said, muslims do appear to have some very odd customs and rituals. No more odd than orthodox jews or christians, but odd none the less.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

Did I say it did? No, what I said was, to use such examples in order to slander everyone who is muslim is disingenuous and it certainly does not make it ok to kill anyone who professes to be a muslim in order to stamp out the extremists. In fact, the results of such attempts appear to have the opposite effect. No surprises here.

I think they have been manipulated by people who want power and who use any tool in the box to get it, be that tribal division, religion, whatever they can find.

What it is definitely not, is an example of muslim behaviour. There are many, many muslims who live peacefully. Who knew?

I have no doubt that there are many muslims that live peacefully bcz from my own experiences I worked alongside many of them for 9+ yrs. However, let me go back to the Danish cartoon drawing senario a couple years back, and many many of those peacefully living people became insane over a drawing. Thats not cultural, or people being manipulated by power or money.

If you push against the religion instead of the extremists who use the religion for their own ends, you get these kinds of results.

are there alot of people that think its ok to go around killing muslims? is that even actually happening? I just dont see that, I do however see alot of people trying to go out of their way so they dont offend anyone, and I hardly see people fussing over the times the extremists almost daily bomb their own innocent people.

all of it is wrong and most of us Muslims speak out about it.

these 14 people are a prime example of why Islam should be taught correctly what they did was take something and go wayyyyyyyyyy to far even if the person had not died there was no reason to what they did.

some of the hard core people that are extremest do not want to drink after a Christian because Muslims wash their mouth and nose, the extremest believe that drinking after a Christian can be harmful to them because most Christians do not wash the same as we do as in water in the nose, so they think drinking from something they drank from as dirty...........but the fact remains what they did was wrong completely wrong.

what i have seen some Muslims do if they have a problem with drinking or thinking that they should not drink after someone that does not wash the same as them is have separate cups or glasses to resolve the issue with out being insulting or resulting to violence

i repeat these people just used it as an excuse to murder thats it.

sara

I probably have the most respect for what Sara just said than out of anyone. Im tired of people either making excuses for bad things that happen from people, or people that dont stand up for whats right and wrong.