What are you doing with your "old" citizenship?

[Goran 2]

Just a poll to see what everyone's plans are after you take the Oath in regards to your current citizenship and allegiance. I'm also interested if anyone know how you would go about telling your current country, "thanks, but no thanks...", if you know what I mean? For example, do I just walk in to the Swedish embassy in D.C. and say: "It's been a great 36 years, but I'm sorry, I wanna be an American now... Here's my passport... So long!" (Hypothetically speaking, that is).

Any ideas?

[T and M 1]

Just a poll to see what everyone's plans are after you take the Oath in regards to your current citizenship and allegiance. I'm also interested if anyone know how you would go about telling your current country, "thanks, but no thanks...", if you know what I mean? For example, do I just walk in to the Swedish embassy in D.C. and say: "It's been a great 36 years, but I'm sorry, I wanna be an American now... Here's my passport... So long!" (Hypothetically speaking, that is).

Any ideas?

Well, you could do that (walk in and say, see ya later Sweden), but then it would be rather difficult if you ever wanted to take a trip to Europe that lasts more than 90 days. In fact, an American is legally required to leave Europe for 90 days before he/she can go back for another 90 days. Thanks to the Schengen agreement, American students can no longer backpack around Europe for five months without some serious and sneaky border jumping around Switzerland or the Balkans. (They used to get a new 90-day tourist visa every time they entered a new country. Now they get 90 days for all of Schengen, from Portugal to Estonia.)

You are also better off using your Swedish passport if you ever want to go to Brazil or Bolivia without paying the $100 visa fee (implemented as a reciprocal policy to Washington's very strict visa requirement for Brazilians and Bolivians wishing to visit the United States.)

Given the walls governments construct to block the free movement of peoples, I can't imagine why anyone would willingly relinquish a citizenship unless required to do so by law. As you can see, I have rather strong opinions on this. I'm sure there are reasons to willingly relinquish citizenship, but I do not know them.

[Goran 2]

Well, you could do that (walk in and say, see ya later Sweden), but then it would be rather difficult if you ever wanted to take a trip to Europe that lasts more than 90 days. In fact, an American is legally required to leave Europe for 90 days before he/she can go back for another 90 days. Thanks to the Schengen agreement, American students can no longer backpack around Europe for five months without some serious and sneaky border jumping around Switzerland or the Balkans. (They used to get a new 90-day tourist visa every time they entered a new country. Now they get 90 days for all of Schengen, from Portugal to Estonia.)

You are also better off using your Swedish passport if you ever want to go to Brazil or Bolivia without paying the $100 visa fee (implemented as a reciprocal policy to Washington's very strict visa requirement for Brazilians and Bolivians wishing to visit the United States.)

Given the walls governments construct to block the free movement of peoples, I can't imagine why anyone would willingly relinquish a citizenship unless required to do so by law. As you can see, I have rather strong opinions on this. I'm sure there are reasons to willingly relinquish citizenship, but I do not know them.

Thanks for your reply! I really appreciate it. I was just wondering. I would definitely like to keep my Swedish citizenship, but am confused what the Oath of Allegiance for Naturalization really means. It states:

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen..."

It does not explicitly state that you renounce your old citizenship, however, it states allegiance and fidelity.....as most things that deals with Governments - CLEAR AS MUDD!

In other words, can you say that you have "absolutely and entirely renounce(d) and abjure(d) all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign..." if you still keep you citizenship with that country?

[moonhunt 1]

Some country doesn't have a choice.

According to the law, my original citizenship will be lost automatically when I become other country's citizen.

[Goran 2]

Some country doesn't have a choice.

According to the law, my original citizenship will be lost automatically when I become other country's citizen.

How does your "original" country know that you have a new citizenship with another country?

[2bornot2b 0]

Some country doesn't have a choice.

According to the law, my original citizenship will be lost automatically when I become other country's citizen.

Yes. But how will your original country know? Also you can go back and use your birth certificate to apply for a passport???

[thea 1]

Some country doesn't have a choice.

According to the law, my original citizenship will be lost automatically when I become other country's citizen.

Yes. But how will your original country know? Also you can go back and use your birth certificate to apply for a passport???

It's not necessarily that easy to get the passport for your "old" country renewed.

Germany, for example, requires you to provide proof of legal presence in the US when you apply for a passport via one of the consulates. So to get a new German passport I had to show them my valid greencard. Once you have citizenship you only have a US passport to show. From that it would be pretty easy to spot that you took US citizenship. Not sure what the passport application form asks for when I would apply for a passport in Germany.

[T and M 1]

Some country doesn't have a choice.

According to the law, my original citizenship will be lost automatically when I become other country's citizen.

Yes. But how will your original country know? Also you can go back and use your birth certificate to apply for a passport???

These are all very good points.

Firstly, the United States does not recognize dual citizenship. This means that, as far as US authorities are concerned, you are a US citizen and nothing else. At the same time, the United States does not prohibit you holding other citizenships. It just doesn't recognize them. The difference is important. It means you can never claim to be anything other than a US citizen when you are dealing with US authorities. Showing a European passport to US border control would be a big no-no, and could possibly have negative legal ramifications.

The US does not, however, force you to relinquish your former citizenship when you become a US citizen. This means that most naturalized US citizens are actually dual citizens. This is rarely an issue unless the US goes to war against your former country, in which case you might be called upon to fight in one or both armies. In this case, you might be called upon to relinquish one of your citizenships, but probably not.

A good example is Vietnam. Some Vietnamese who are naturalized in the US do not realize that there is no legal reason why they cannot maintain their Vietnamese passport and citizenship. Millions do. From what I have read about Thailand, the same thing holds. There are many US/Thai citizens. As long as you show your Thai passport at the Thai border and your US passport at the US border, you shouldn't have any issue whatsoever.

If you are a citizen of country A and country B, you will not get into any trouble as long as you never provide country A with your passport from country B and vice versa.

I am passionate about this, because many people do not know their rights and pay unnecessary visa fees when traveling back to their home countries. Others are afraid to take their spouse's citizenship for fear that they will lose their US citizenship. They then pay unnecessary visa fees when visiting their spouse's family.

[Goran 2]

It's not necessarily that easy to get the passport for your "old" country renewed.

Germany, for example, requires you to provide proof of legal presence in the US when you apply for a passport via one of the consulates. So to get a new German passport I had to show them my valid greencard. Once you have citizenship you only have a US passport to show. From that it would be pretty easy to spot that you took US citizenship. Not sure what the passport application form asks for when I would apply for a passport in Germany.

How about if you renew your passport in the "old" country? I.e., you'd go back to Germany and use your German birth certificate to apply for a new passport?

[T and M 1]

It's not necessarily that easy to get the passport for your "old" country renewed.

Germany, for example, requires you to provide proof of legal presence in the US when you apply for a passport via one of the consulates. So to get a new German passport I had to show them my valid greencard. Once you have citizenship you only have a US passport to show. From that it would be pretty easy to spot that you took US citizenship. Not sure what the passport application form asks for when I would apply for a passport in Germany.

How about if you renew your passport in the "old" country? I.e., you'd go back to Germany and use your German birth certificate to apply for a new passport?

These are very valid issues. If one has an expired passport for the "old country," perhaps they could just take that in and have it renewed. If their "old country" wants to see proof of legal residence in the US, perhaps they should wait until they travel to the "old country" to get it renewed.

I'm sure it is not always easy when dealing with two governments, but the bottom line is that it is possible. I suppose my wife and I will try to plan our trips so that we keep our passports up to date. Worse case scenario, I pay a visa fee to enter Bolivia on a US passport and then take my expired Bolivian passport to have it renewed. Or I enter on the expired Bolivian passport with my certificate of naturalization in Bolivia and I pay whatever fine to get in and have it renewed. If you lose your passport, well that's another story.

Again, these are very interesting logistical issues.

[Jasman0717 8]

Once Claudeth gets around to filing for citizenship she will refile for her Filipino citizenship once she has her US status.

[moonhunt 1]

Some country doesn't have a choice.

According to the law, my original citizenship will be lost automatically when I become other country's citizen.

Yes. But how will your original country know? Also you can go back and use your birth certificate to apply for a passport???

Same question from two different persons...

It's the law.

I can still try to use my original country's passport, but it is unlawful.

There are technical issue that old country may not know until I report it.

But if it is the law, it's better to follow it.

If somebody is curious, yes, South Korea doesn't allow dual citizenship because of tax issue and military service conflict issue.

[Goran 2]

Same question from two different persons...

It's the law.

I can still try to use my original country's passport, but it is unlawful.

There are technical issue that old country may not know until I report it.

But if it is the law, it's better to follow it.

If somebody is curious, yes, South Korea doesn't allow dual citizenship because of tax issue and military service conflict issue.

You don't happen to know the Code section for reference? I've looked around, but I haven't really been able to find an actual U.S. law that says that you have to give up your citizenship of the "old" country.

[moonhunt 1]

Same question from two different persons...

It's the law.

I can still try to use my original country's passport, but it is unlawful.

There are technical issue that old country may not know until I report it.

But if it is the law, it's better to follow it.

If somebody is curious, yes, South Korea doesn't allow dual citizenship because of tax issue and military service conflict issue.

You don't happen to know the Code section for reference? I've looked around, but I haven't really been able to find an actual U.S. law that says that you have to give up your citizenship of the "old" country.

Not every countries allows dual citizenship.

Some country may have specifically the law prohibiting dual citizenship.

South Korea has the law spelled that you will loose the citizenship whenever you have citizenship from other country no matter the government recognize it or not.

You can sneak around it, but that's illegal.

US has implicit dual citizenship policy from US dept. of State viewpoint.

Nobody mention it, we didn't see your other country's passport.

Just show US passport when you deal with US, kind of thing.

Practially you can sneak around the loophole of the system, but it is your responsibility to follow the law.

If you can take consequences of your behaviors, it's fine.

But I don't think we recommend to sneak around the law for illegal from this forum, right ? B)

So it is not from US law. It is mandated from South Korea law.

From US law viewpoint, as I mentioned from above, don't mention it, and we don't even see your other country's passport, kind of thing.

I just want to point out that not every country allows dual citizenship even though US allow it with "no comment" policy.

Edited February 26, 2009 by moonhunt

[Goran 2]

Not every countries allows dual citizenship.

Some country may have specifically the law prohibiting dual citizenship.

South Korea has the law spelled that you will loose the citizenship whenever you have citizenship from other country no matter the government recognize it or not.

You can sneak around it, but that's illegal.

US has implicit dual citizenship policy from US dept. of State viewpoint.

Nobody mention it, we didn't see your other country's passport.

Just show US passport when you deal with US, kind of thing.

Practially you can sneak around the loophole of the system, but it is your responsibility to follow the law.

If you can take consequences of your behaviors, it's fine.

But I don't think we recommend to sneak around the law for illegal from this forum, right ? B)

So it is not from US law. It is mandated from South Korea law.

From US law viewpoint, as I mentioned from above, don't mention it, and we don't even see your other country's passport, kind of thing.

I just want to point out that not every country allows dual citizenship even though US allow it with "no comment" policy.

That makes sense... I suppose... Thanks for your feedback. As of 2001, Sweden allows dual-citizenship... (used to be a country not recognizing dual citizenship.)