Please Help.

[piggles 0]

Can anyone give me some help and advice?

I've just received my police check back and I've just had a forgotten memory slap me hard in the face. I've gone through the full range of emotions- disbelief, upset, tears, panic - I now have to tell my Fiance - I'm waiting for him to call after leaving a tearful message.

I was arrested and went to court in 1986 for shoplifting - I was 18 years old, just the one conviction. According to the police check I was given an Absolute Discharge. I didn't even get a fine.

I've just sent Packet 3 paperwork minus the checklist (waiting for the Police Check!), to London and arranged my medical.

I've just sent an email to LondonConsular@state.gov trying to explain why I didn't disclose it on DS-156, thinking eveything would be OK, as it was a genuine mistake on my behalf, but I then read posted topic by another worried person and I'm really now panicking. It mentions waiver I-601. I go to the www.immigrate2us.net forum and have a look and I'm really in a panic. Does that fact I had an "Absolute Discharge" mean anything?

Please, can anyone help me?

[zyggy 9]

Can anyone give me some help and advice?

I've just received my police check back and I've just had a forgotten memory slap me hard in the face. I've gone through the full range of emotions- disbelief, upset, tears, panic - I now have to tell my Fiance - I'm waiting for him to call after leaving a tearful message.

I was arrested and went to court in 1986 for shoplifting - I was 18 years old, just the one conviction. According to the police check I was given an Absolute Discharge. I didn't even get a fine.

I've just sent Packet 3 paperwork minus the checklist (waiting for the Police Check!), to London and arranged my medical.

I've just sent an email to LondonConsular@state.gov trying to explain why I didn't disclose it on DS-156, thinking eveything would be OK, as it was a genuine mistake on my behalf, but I then read posted topic by another worried person and I'm really now panicking. It mentions waiver I-601. I go to the www.immigrate2us.net forum and have a look and I'm really in a panic. Does that fact I had an "Absolute Discharge" mean anything?

Please, can anyone help me?

If Absolute Discharge means they dropped the charges, then you were not convicted of a crime of moral turpitude and a waiver should ne be required. A waiver is only required for convictions...

Edited June 15, 2006 by zyggy

[piggles 0]

Can anyone give me some help and advice?

I've just received my police check back and I've just had a forgotten memory slap me hard in the face. I've gone through the full range of emotions- disbelief, upset, tears, panic - I now have to tell my Fiance - I'm waiting for him to call after leaving a tearful message.

I was arrested and went to court in 1986 for shoplifting - I was 18 years old, just the one conviction. According to the police check I was given an Absolute Discharge. I didn't even get a fine.

I've just sent Packet 3 paperwork minus the checklist (waiting for the Police Check!), to London and arranged my medical.

I've just sent an email to LondonConsular@state.gov trying to explain why I didn't disclose it on DS-156, thinking eveything would be OK, as it was a genuine mistake on my behalf, but I then read posted topic by another worried person and I'm really now panicking. It mentions waiver I-601. I go to the www.immigrate2us.net forum and have a look and I'm really in a panic. Does that fact I had an "Absolute Discharge" mean anything?

Please, can anyone help me?

If Absolute Discharge means they dropped the charges, then you were not convicted of a crime of moral turpitude and a waiver should ne be required. A waiver is only required for convictions...

Thank you for replying. I'm either really naive or stupid with these matters. How do I find out if Absolute Discharge means they dropped the charges? Would Local Police Enquiries be the place to start?

[ridley 0]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_discharge

This might be a good place to start.

Best wishes.

[babybunny 2]

I think everything will be fine...

[piggles 0]

Thanks. I hope everything will be OK.

I've found out that in UK law an absolute discharge means you are guilty but due to circumstances, age, background, actual crime etc the court takes no further action against an offender, but the offence and the discharge will appear on his criminal record

From the web site www.cjsonline.gov.uk/defendant/faqs - "Absolute Discharge - this means that although you are guilty of the offence, the court took the view that no punishment was necessary. Reasons for this could perhaps be: because of the circumstances of the crime; your previous good character; if the crime was very minor; or you are very young, or very old.

Regardless of the definition, I still have a record! Next thing I suppose is to get hold of the court records.

[Nessa 23]

I think everything will be fine...

Good luck!

[piggles 0]

Thank You.

[meauxna 15]

Thanks. I hope everything will be OK.

I've found out that in UK law an absolute discharge means you are guilty but due to circumstances, age, background, actual crime etc the court takes no further action against an offender, but the offence and the discharge will appear on his criminal record

From the web site www.cjsonline.gov.uk/defendant/faqs - "Absolute Discharge - this means that although you are guilty of the offence, the court took the view that no punishment was necessary. Reasons for this could perhaps be: because of the circumstances of the crime; your previous good character; if the crime was very minor; or you are very young, or very old.

Regardless of the definition, I still have a record! Next thing I suppose is to get hold of the court records.

Def get ahold of the court record & bring a copy to the interview. Check this out, but I believe that your discovery and informing the Consulate falls under 'timely retraction', so it's not a death sentance in itself. Don't forget that you will always have to tick the 'have you been arrested' box on all future forms regardless of the outcome of the case. Save those court records when you get them!

This is one of those famous 'complications' that might lead you to want to consult with an experienced family-based immigration attorney. You can do this online or over the phone; be sure to get them all the documents (what you filed + emails +court records + any definition in American of what your charges/outcome were). In fact, if you run this past lawyer Laurel Scott, she can tell you with some certainty if your case will require a waiver or not. Also recommend you look up vj user 'munchkins' for info on very old convictions and when a waiver is required.

You can find Laurel at her own website (free immigration chat on Wednesdays) and posting at this excellent group: http://www.immigrate2us.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=26

[piggles 0]

Thanks. I hope everything will be OK.

I've found out that in UK law an absolute discharge means you are guilty but due to circumstances, age, background, actual crime etc the court takes no further action against an offender, but the offence and the discharge will appear on his criminal record

From the web site www.cjsonline.gov.uk/defendant/faqs - "Absolute Discharge - this means that although you are guilty of the offence, the court took the view that no punishment was necessary. Reasons for this could perhaps be: because of the circumstances of the crime; your previous good character; if the crime was very minor; or you are very young, or very old.

Regardless of the definition, I still have a record! Next thing I suppose is to get hold of the court records.

Def get ahold of the court record & bring a copy to the interview. Check this out, but I believe that your discovery and informing the Consulate falls under 'timely retraction', so it's not a death sentance in itself. Don't forget that you will always have to tick the 'have you been arrested' box on all future forms regardless of the outcome of the case. Save those court records when you get them!

This is one of those famous 'complications' that might lead you to want to consult with an experienced family-based immigration attorney. You can do this online or over the phone; be sure to get them all the documents (what you filed + emails +court records + any definition in American of what your charges/outcome were). In fact, if you run this past lawyer Laurel Scott, she can tell you with some certainty if your case will require a waiver or not. Also recommend you look up vj user 'munchkins' for info on very old convictions and when a waiver is required.

You can find Laurel at her own website (free immigration chat on Wednesdays) and posting at this excellent group: http://www.immigrate2us.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=26

Edited June 16, 2006 by piggles

[piggles 0]

Thanks. I hope everything will be OK.

I've found out that in UK law an absolute discharge means you are guilty but due to circumstances, age, background, actual crime etc the court takes no further action against an offender, but the offence and the discharge will appear on his criminal record

From the web site www.cjsonline.gov.uk/defendant/faqs - "Absolute Discharge - this means that although you are guilty of the offence, the court took the view that no punishment was necessary. Reasons for this could perhaps be: because of the circumstances of the crime; your previous good character; if the crime was very minor; or you are very young, or very old.

Regardless of the definition, I still have a record! Next thing I suppose is to get hold of the court records.

Def get ahold of the court record & bring a copy to the interview. Check this out, but I believe that your discovery and informing the Consulate falls under 'timely retraction', so it's not a death sentance in itself. Don't forget that you will always have to tick the 'have you been arrested' box on all future forms regardless of the outcome of the case. Save those court records when you get them!

This is one of those famous 'complications' that might lead you to want to consult with an experienced family-based immigration attorney. You can do this online or over the phone; be sure to get them all the documents (what you filed + emails +court records + any definition in American of what your charges/outcome were). In fact, if you run this past lawyer Laurel Scott, she can tell you with some certainty if your case will require a waiver or not. Also recommend you look up vj user 'munchkins' for info on very old convictions and when a waiver is required.

You can find Laurel at her own website (free immigration chat on Wednesdays) and posting at this excellent group: http://www.immigrate2us.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=26

Thank you for your reply and I take your advice onboard. I've found out how to get hold of the court records. Also I've found a form that may be useful - maybe? it's VCU001 - its on the Consular web site in London. It appear to be for people who, like me have been arrested and/or convicted of a crime. It has some additional instructions.

My Fiance continued searching the web and found some more info. He's hoping that the fact it happened in 1986, there was no sentence or fine, the Court decided to give me an absolute discharge and there has been no other conviction that they may look at me favourably under the Petty Offence Exception. I'm gathering as much info as possible including looking at the I-601 - how I'm going to construct a hardship letter I don't know - I've read some on the www.immirate2us.net web site - and I don't feel we would qualify.

I've sent an email to the consulate in London - waiting for a reply. Does anyone know if phoning the Embassy direct on the Switchboard: [44] (0)20 7499-9000 number be of use or would I have to use the non London number 09042-450100?

Any more help would be gratefully accepted - but in the end what will be will

[zyggy 9]

Thanks. I hope everything will be OK.

I've found out that in UK law an absolute discharge means you are guilty but due to circumstances, age, background, actual crime etc the court takes no further action against an offender, but the offence and the discharge will appear on his criminal record

From the web site www.cjsonline.gov.uk/defendant/faqs - "Absolute Discharge - this means that although you are guilty of the offence, the court took the view that no punishment was necessary. Reasons for this could perhaps be: because of the circumstances of the crime; your previous good character; if the crime was very minor; or you are very young, or very old.

Regardless of the definition, I still have a record! Next thing I suppose is to get hold of the court records.

Def get ahold of the court record & bring a copy to the interview. Check this out, but I believe that your discovery and informing the Consulate falls under 'timely retraction', so it's not a death sentance in itself. Don't forget that you will always have to tick the 'have you been arrested' box on all future forms regardless of the outcome of the case. Save those court records when you get them!

This is one of those famous 'complications' that might lead you to want to consult with an experienced family-based immigration attorney. You can do this online or over the phone; be sure to get them all the documents (what you filed + emails +court records + any definition in American of what your charges/outcome were). In fact, if you run this past lawyer Laurel Scott, she can tell you with some certainty if your case will require a waiver or not. Also recommend you look up vj user 'munchkins' for info on very old convictions and when a waiver is required.

You can find Laurel at her own website (free immigration chat on Wednesdays) and posting at this excellent group: http://www.immigrate2us.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=26

Thank you for your reply and I take your advice onboard. I've found out how to get hold of the court records. Also I've found a form that may be useful - maybe? it's VCU001 - its on the Consular web site in London. It appear to be for people who, like me have been arrested and/or convicted of a crime. It has some additional instructions.

My Fiance continued searching the web and found some more info. He's hoping that the fact it happened in 1986, there was no sentence or fine, the Court decided to give me an absolute discharge and there has been no other conviction that they may look at me favourably under the Petty Offence Exception. I'm gathering as much info as possible including looking at the I-601 - how I'm going to construct a hardship letter I don't know - I've read some on the www.immirate2us.net web site - and I don't feel we would qualify.

I've sent an email to the consulate in London - waiting for a reply. Does anyone know if phoning the Embassy direct on the Switchboard: [44] (0)20 7499-9000 number be of use or would I have to use the non London number 09042-450100?

Any more help would be gratefully accepted - but in the end what will be will

To be eligible under the "Petty Offense Exception", your crime would have to be considered a petty offense under US law. Whether it's a petty offense or not depends on the value of what you stole.

From the Foreign Affairs Manual (9 FAM 40.21)

To render an alien ineligible under INA 212(a)(2)(A)(i)(I), the conviction must be for a statutory offense, which involves moral turpitude. The presence of moral turpitude is determined by the nature of the statutory offense for which the alien was convicted, and not by the acts underlying the conviction. Therefore, evidence relating to the underlying act, including the testimony of the applicant, is not relevant to a determination of whether the conviction involved moral turpitude except when the statute is divisible (see 9 FAM 40.21(a) N5.2) or a political offense (see 9 FAM 40.21(a) N10). The presence of moral turpitude in a statutory offense is determined according to United States law.

Common Crimes Involving Moral Turpitude

Categorized below are some of the more common crimes, which are considered to involve moral turpitude.

b. Other crimes committed against property involving moral turpitude involve an inherently evil intent, such as the act of arson. The following list comprises crimes frequently committed against property, which may be held to involve moral turpitude for the purposes of visa issuance: (1) Arson; (2) Blackmail; (3) Burglary; (4) Embezzlement; (5) Extortion; (6) False pretenses; (7) Forgery; (8) Fraud; (9) Larceny (grand or petty); (10) Malicious destruction of property;

(11) Receiving stolen goods (with guilty knowledge); (12) Robbery; (13) Theft (when it involves the intention of permanent taking); and (14) Transporting stolen property (with guilty knowledge).

-AND-

An immigrant alien who is ineligible under INA 212(a)(2)(A)(i)(I) is eligible to apply for a waiver of ineligibility under INA 212(h) (see also 9 FAM 40.21(a) PN2) if it is established to the satisfaction of the Secretary of Homeland Security (DHS) that: (1) The activities for which the alien is excludable occurred more than 15 years before the date of the alien’s application for visa; (2) The alien’s admission to the United States would not be contrary to the national welfare, safety, or security, and (3) The alien has been rehabilitated.

and the petty offense exception

(A) Conviction of certain crimes.-

(i) In general.-Except as provided in clause (ii), any alien convicted of, or who admits having committed, or who admits committing acts which constitute the essential elements of-

(I) a crime involving moral turpitude (other than a purely political offense or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime), or

(II) a violation of (or a conspiracy or attempt to violate) any law or regulation of a State, the United States, or a foreign country relating to a controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)), is inadmissible.

(ii) Exception.-Clause (i)(I) shall not apply to an alien who committed only one crime if-(I) the crime was committed when the alien was under 18 years of age, and the crime was committed (and the alien released from any confinement to a prison or correctional institution imposed for the crime) more than 5 years before the date of application for a visa or other documentation and the date of application for admission to the United States, or

(II) the maximum penalty possible for the crime of which the alien was convicted (or which the alien admits having committed or of which the acts that the alien admits having committed constituted the essential elements) did not exceed imprisonment for one year and, if the alien was convicted of such crime, the alien was not sentenced to a term of imprisonment in excess of 6 months (regardless of the extent to which the sentence was ultimately executed).

The rules are based on US law and what the punishment for the crime would be in the US... Generally, theft of more than $500 would result in maximum prison time of more than a year... Petty theft is generally less than about $500 or so... For instance, theft of more than $200 but less than $1,000 in Michigan carries a maximum penalty of 5 years imprisonment. Theft between $1,000 and $20,000 carries a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment.

The guidelines above should give you an idea of what to expect and get you better informed when you talk with your attorney.

Edited June 16, 2006 by zyggy

[piggles 0]

Thank You again

I believe from the distant memory that I had it was less than £10 (less than approx $18) worth of items. That's the stupid thing about all this! Hopefully the court records will reflect this. I'm totally devastated. eveything was proceeding wonderfully.

[zyggy 9]

Thank You again

I believe from the distant memory that I had it was less than £10 (less than approx $18) worth of items. That's the stupid thing about all this! Hopefully the court records will reflect this. I'm totally devastated. eveything was proceeding wonderfully.

I would think that theft of articles valued at $18 would definitely apply under the petty offence exception.

[meauxna 15]

My Fiance continued searching the web and found some more info. He's hoping that the fact it happened in 1986, there was no sentence or fine, the Court decided to give me an absolute discharge and there has been no other conviction that they may look at me favourably under the Petty Offence Exception. I'm gathering as much info as possible including looking at the I-601 - how I'm going to construct a hardship letter I don't know - I've read some on the www.immirate2us.net web site - and I don't feel we would qualify.

I've sent an email to the consulate in London - waiting for a reply. Does anyone know if phoning the Embassy direct on the Switchboard: [44] (0)20 7499-9000 number be of use or would I have to use the non London number 09042-450100?

Any more help would be gratefully accepted - but in the end what will be will

This, and zyggy's good replies show why you should get a legal opinion on your specific situation before you go running around getting yourself in despair. You may not require an I-601 Waiver--posting your details to that group may also help you find out where you stand. Find that out before you start designing your solution, ok?

What are you hoping the Embassy will tell you? Remember that they are NOT your legal advocates, are not obliged to give you correct information and are actually at cross purposes with you (their job could be described as 'trying to keep people out of the US'). Proceed with caution and a skeptical eye.

Also, "the Embassy" is not the same as "the Consulate".