Zarqawi Killed In Air Raid

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

9/11/01 - 19 men hijack 4 aircraft and killed over 1,000 Americans.

9/11/01 - 2 Palestinian gunmen kill 2 policemen at a checkpoint in Israel.

9/21/01 - 29 people are killed and 2000 are wounded in France when an radical islamist blows up a fertilizer plant.

9/23/01 - A 17 year old is beaten with a hammer and stabbed to death by and islamic gang in London.

10/21/01- Seven civilians have their throats slit by islamic radicals in Algeria.

10/21/01 - Hamas car bombers kill 16 people on a bus in Tel Aviv.

10/24/02 - 40 Christians are killed by a mob of muslims in Nigeria

10/26/02 - 129 people are killed in a rescue attempt in Moscow after 800 are taken hostage by Chechnyan muslim radicals.

10/28/02 - American diplomat is killed by 2 al-Qaeda terrorists in Jordan.

10/30/02 - Terrorists murder 8 in Algeria including 4 children.

10/31/02- Islamic radicals murder 20 Christain students at a college in Nigeria.

12/6/02- 4 bombs detonate in 4 different movie theaters in Bangladesh killing 27

12/27/02- Palestinian gunman breaks into a Jewish seminary in Israel killing 4 students who were sitting down to Sabbath dinner.

12/30/02 - Islamic radical kills three American humanitarian workers in Yemen.

1/5/03- 23 people are killed by suicide bombers in Tel Aviv.

1/31/03 - Al-Qaeda landmine blows up a bus killing 18 people in Afghanistan.

Yup. But the truth will get you nowhere. People like to keep their heads in the sand.

Excuse my asking but what does any of this have to do with the Iraqi civilians killed by us and due to our illegal invasion into that country? Just curious.

I used it to support my statement that the insurgents have killed more civilians than the U.S. because they deliberatly attack civilian targets.

Would you kindly point to the event among the above quoted that the Iraqi insurgents are responsible for?

So by the DOD's very own definition, the invasion of Iraq makes everyone in the DOD who is stationed there.... a "terrorist."

NO IT DOES NOT!

Use of force against INDIVIDUALS (I.E. CIVILIANS) and property (I.E. SHOPPING MALLS, SUBWAYS, RESTAURANTS ETC....) to coerce or intimidate governments and SOCIETIES for political, ideological, or religous gain.

This is merely beaurocrat talk for "People who target and murder civilians in public places to scare them into giving in." I.E. Hamas.

The U.S. doesn't do that so therefore it doesn't qualify 'under their own definition.'

Shock and Awe, anyone?

[Ban Hammer 14,273]

when did it become fashionable to be american AND hate america? i must have missed that memo.

Why don't you point out these statements that you think "explicitly suggest" hatred of America?

You keep bringing it up - why don't you quantify it so we can all deal with it and get it out of the way?

I don't hate America. I keep telling you. Again and again and again and again and again - but no matter what I or anyone else says, its not enough for you. #######?

To clarify, once again, for the terminally stupid and unalterably stubborn - I don't like the Bush administration and some of the policies it pursues domestically and overseas. You will find plenty of USC's who feel the same way - which makes me wonder again why you consider it so much more objectionable for an immigrant to hold those views rather than a USC. That doesn't equate to "hating American". In my book anyway.

So if you don't want to quantify it - perhaps you could do us all a favor and stop playing the broken record. With all due respect, it makes you sound like a c**t

please note that i said "...be an american..." and not "...be an immigrant..."

i do expect better out of you, don't make me lower my expectations.

in regards to the original statement, the continual bashing about the usa is why such was said.

now let the bashing continue..........

(got it this time?)

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

please note that i said "...be an american..." and not "...be an immigrant..."

i do expect better out of you, don't make me lower my expectations.

in regards to the original statement, the continual bashing about the usa is why such was said.

now let the bashing continue..........

(got it this time?)

Again - bashing the government is not the same as bashing the country.

Please qualify specifically what you think indicates 'hatred of america' - specific examples please. Otherwise stop harping on it.

I don't hate America - I simply disagree with the government on a number of issues. As do many born US citizens.

Edited June 11, 2006 by Fishdude

[Ban Hammer 14,273]

please note that i said "...be an american..." and not "...be an immigrant..."

i do expect better out of you, don't make me lower my expectations.

in regards to the original statement, the continual bashing about the usa is why such was said.

now let the bashing continue..........

(got it this time?)

Again - bashing the government is not the same as bashing the country.

Please qualify specifically what you think indicates 'hatred of america' - specific examples please. Otherwise stop harping on it.

I don't hate America - I simply disagree with the government on a number of issues.

it's real simple. hatred of america: you've not said one positive thing about the usa that i have seen in any of your posts. again, it's a continual stream of criticism in one way or another about the usa. when is the last time you've said something positive about the usa? or is such against your programming?

[ual777 0]

9/11/01 - 19 men hijack 4 aircraft and killed over 1,000 Americans.

9/11/01 - 2 Palestinian gunmen kill 2 policemen at a checkpoint in Israel.

9/21/01 - 29 people are killed and 2000 are wounded in France when an radical islamist blows up a fertilizer plant.

9/23/01 - A 17 year old is beaten with a hammer and stabbed to death by and islamic gang in London.

10/21/01- Seven civilians have their throats slit by islamic radicals in Algeria.

10/21/01 - Hamas car bombers kill 16 people on a bus in Tel Aviv.

10/24/02 - 40 Christians are killed by a mob of muslims in Nigeria

10/26/02 - 129 people are killed in a rescue attempt in Moscow after 800 are taken hostage by Chechnyan muslim radicals.

10/28/02 - American diplomat is killed by 2 al-Qaeda terrorists in Jordan.

10/30/02 - Terrorists murder 8 in Algeria including 4 children.

10/31/02- Islamic radicals murder 20 Christain students at a college in Nigeria.

12/6/02- 4 bombs detonate in 4 different movie theaters in Bangladesh killing 27

12/27/02- Palestinian gunman breaks into a Jewish seminary in Israel killing 4 students who were sitting down to Sabbath dinner.

12/30/02 - Islamic radical kills three American humanitarian workers in Yemen.

1/5/03- 23 people are killed by suicide bombers in Tel Aviv.

1/31/03 - Al-Qaeda landmine blows up a bus killing 18 people in Afghanistan.

Yup. But the truth will get you nowhere. People like to keep their heads in the sand.

Excuse my asking but what does any of this have to do with the Iraqi civilians killed by us and due to our illegal invasion into that country? Just curious.

I used it to support my statement that the insurgents have killed more civilians than the U.S. because they deliberatly attack civilian targets.

Would you kindly point to the event among the above quoted that the Iraqi insurgents are responsible for?

So by the DOD's very own definition, the invasion of Iraq makes everyone in the DOD who is stationed there.... a "terrorist."

NO IT DOES NOT!

Use of force against INDIVIDUALS (I.E. CIVILIANS) and property (I.E. SHOPPING MALLS, SUBWAYS, RESTAURANTS ETC....) to coerce or intimidate governments and SOCIETIES for political, ideological, or religous gain.

This is merely beaurocrat talk for "People who target and murder civilians in public places to scare them into giving in." I.E. Hamas.

The U.S. doesn't do that so therefore it doesn't qualify 'under their own definition.'

Shock and Awe, anyone?

Shock and Awe targeted military targets and was designed to confuse the Iraqi military which it did wonderfully. You appear to be skimming my posts and apparently lack the ability to see the connection I am making. I never said that that list was caused by Iraqi insurgents. I was showing the connection between terrorists and the targeting of civilians because Slim had compared Zarqawi to George Washington. These show the VAST difference. If you would like me to post attacks made solely by Iraqi insurgents then I gladly will.

So far I have proved the following points WITH credible evidence and statistics.

1. The insurgents have killed more Iraqi civilians than the U.S. led coalition in Iraq and are currently killing them at a rate of 40:1 to 90:1 as compared to the U.S.

2. If you look at the death rates under Saddam Hussain as compared to the time period of the U.S. occupation, more people would have died under his rule than those that have died during OIF.

3. Zarqawi and his henchmen are in no way shape or form even comprable to George Washington.

4. The United States is not a 'terrorist' country as some have implied here.

Questions?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

it's real simple. hatred of america: you've not said one positive thing about the usa that i have seen in any of your posts. again, it's a continual stream of criticism in one way or another about the usa. when is the last time you've said something positive about the usa? or is such against your programming?

Perhaps because I post primarily about political issues which involve the US government, which again I disagree with on many issues.

Again I ask you to show specific examples to back up your claim. Is it that difficult? If I'm throwing hatred of America all over the place, it wouldn't be too hard to find would it?

Edited June 11, 2006 by Fishdude

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So far I have proved the following points WITH credible evidence and statistics.

1. The insurgents have killed more Iraqi civilians than the U.S. led coalition in Iraq and are currently killing them at a rate of 40:1 to 90:1 as compared to the U.S.

2. If you look at the death rates under Saddam Hussain as compared to the time period of the U.S. occupation, more people would have died under his rule than those that have died during OIF.

3. Zarqawi and his henchmen are in no way shape or form even comprable to George Washington.

4. The United States is not a 'terrorist' country as some have implied here.

Questions?

Sure

1. Noone is claiming that the US military has killed more civilians than the insurgents. But the insurgents wouldn't be there setting the road-side bombs, more importantly Zarqawi wouldn't have been in Iraq if we hadn't gone to war and left the borders open for foreign militia fighters to stream in.

2. No way you can quantify a thing like that with those kind of statistics. Regardless you can't justify an illegal war with the claim that "not going to war" would result in increased civilian loss of life. It wasn't sold on that basis - it was sold ENTIRELY on the basis that Saddam had WMD, and the capacity to use them on the US and its allies (Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Israel).

3. Sure. No argument there. Though the English (the dominant imperial power at that particular time) would have certainly viewed George Washington in much the same way that we regard Bin Laden.

4. Again that's debatable considering the legal questions over the war. Not only that - but successive US administrations have (and still) funded dictators and "freedom fighters" in many regions around the world. Bay of pigs, Panama, ring any bells? Bin Laden was trained by the CIA to fight the Soviets with what we now refer to as . Saddam Hussein was bankrolled by the CIA to buy weapons (including chemical / biological) agents to use against Iran (which killed over a million people by the way).

Edited June 11, 2006 by Fishdude

[Ban Hammer 14,273]

it's real simple. hatred of america: you've not said one positive thing about the usa that i have seen in any of your posts. again, it's a continual stream of criticism in one way or another about the usa. when is the last time you've said something positive about the usa? or is such against your programming?

Perhaps because I post primarily about political issues which involve the US government, which again I disagree with on many issues.

Again I ask you to show specific examples to back up your claim. Is it that difficult? If I'm throwing hatred of America all over the place, it wouldn't be too hard to find would it?

asked and answered. next question.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So far I have proved the following points WITH credible evidence and statistics.

1. The insurgents have killed more Iraqi civilians than the U.S. led coalition in Iraq and are currently killing them at a rate of 40:1 to 90:1 as compared to the U.S.

2. If you look at the death rates under Saddam Hussain as compared to the time period of the U.S. occupation, more people would have died under his rule than those that have died during OIF.

3. Zarqawi and his henchmen are in no way shape or form even comprable to George Washington.

4. The United States is not a 'terrorist' country as some have implied here.

Questions?

No questions, just a few comments:

1) Even if that was so, it doesn't justify a single Iraqi civilian death that the US has caused in the wake of it's illegal and unwarranted act of aggression against Iraq.

2) As I said before, all those numbers prove (if those numbers actually hold water which I won't even get into) would be that Saddam was three times the criminal, killing azzhole that George W Bush is.

3) I won't disagree on that point. I am no fan of Zarqawi or his followers while I do appreciate the contribution that George Washington made as the first president of this great nation.

4) Today, the US is as much a rogue nation as Iraq under Saddam was then. The US invasion into Iraq was as illegal an act of aggression as Saddam's invasion into Kuwait back in 1989/1990. The only difference is that the US has veto power in the UN Security Council which Iraq did not and does not have. Thus, there is no UN reprimand against the US while there was one against Saddam's Iraq.

Edited June 11, 2006 by ET-US2004

[Scott & Lai 12]

So far I have proved the following points WITH credible evidence and statistics.

1. The insurgents have killed more Iraqi civilians than the U.S. led coalition in Iraq and are currently killing them at a rate of 40:1 to 90:1 as compared to the U.S.

2. If you look at the death rates under Saddam Hussain as compared to the time period of the U.S. occupation, more people would have died under his rule than those that have died during OIF.

3. Zarqawi and his henchmen are in no way shape or form even comprable to George Washington.

4. The United States is not a 'terrorist' country as some have implied here.

Questions?

Sure

1. Noone is claiming that the US military has killed more civilians than the insurgents. But the insurgents wouldn't be there setting the road-side bombs, more importantly Zarqawi wouldn't have been in Iraq if we hadn't gone to war and left the borders open for foreign militia fighters to stream in.

So, if we weren't in Iraq, Zarqawi would have been doing something benign like running a Barnes & Noble or a homeless shelter??

[jen&darcy 0]

Anybody that is anti-American and doesn't reside here can stay where you are and don't come here. Nobody is forcing you to come here and live.

I don't agree with everything my government does but I am not going to sit here and bash it. I love America and proud to be an American.

This thread just infuriates me with all the anti-American being thrown around.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So, if we weren't in Iraq, Zarqawi would have been doing something benign like running a Barnes & Noble or a homeless shelter??

lol. No but he still wouldn't be in Iraq would he?

Anybody that is anti-American and doesn't reside here can stay where you are and don't come here. Nobody is forcing you to come here and live.

I don't agree with everything my government does but I am not going to sit here and bash it. I love America and proud to be an American.

This thread just infuriates me with all the anti-American being thrown around.

Where?

I might as well say "it just infuriates me with all the anti-immigrant hatred being thrown around". Its just the same sort of throwaway comment without any qualifying basis.

For the record. Once again. For the millionth time. I like America - I don't like the government - for various reasons that I have previously stated.

Edited June 11, 2006 by Fishdude

[Ban Hammer 14,273]

So far I have proved the following points WITH credible evidence and statistics.

1. The insurgents have killed more Iraqi civilians than the U.S. led coalition in Iraq and are currently killing them at a rate of 40:1 to 90:1 as compared to the U.S.

2. If you look at the death rates under Saddam Hussain as compared to the time period of the U.S. occupation, more people would have died under his rule than those that have died during OIF.

3. Zarqawi and his henchmen are in no way shape or form even comprable to George Washington.

4. The United States is not a 'terrorist' country as some have implied here.

Questions?

Sure

1. Noone is claiming that the US military has killed more civilians than the insurgents. But the insurgents wouldn't be there setting the road-side bombs, more importantly Zarqawi wouldn't have been in Iraq if we hadn't gone to war and left the borders open for foreign militia fighters to stream in.

So, if we weren't in Iraq, Zarqawi would have been doing something benign like running a Barnes & Noble or a homeless shelter??

good one

Anybody that is anti-American and doesn't reside here can stay where you are and don't come here. Nobody is forcing you to come here and live.

I don't agree with everything my government does but I am not going to sit here and bash it. I love America and proud to be an American.

This thread just infuriates me with all the anti-American being thrown around.

in the military, when something don't make sense or one does not agree with it, we say 'suck it up and drive on' - in short, build a bridge and get over it.

[LaL 418]

For the record. Once again. For the millionth time. I like America - I don't like the government - for various reasons that I have previously stated.

it's....

like....

beating...

your head against the wall

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

For the record. Once again. For the millionth time. I like America - I don't like the government - for various reasons that I have previously stated.

it's....

like....

beating...

your head against the wall

Yes it is. As Charles says 'suck it up and drive on', though trying to get through that kind of ignorance is like trying to build a footbridge over the Grand Canyon

Edited June 11, 2006 by Fishdude