Michael Jackson has converted to Islam

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm not trying to ridicule but to understand - do you feel that we cannot view the naked human body other than in a sexual way? In other words, we cannot appreciate the beauty of the human body separate from our sexuality?

Well, my opinion on this is never popular(like many of my opinions lol). I don't think we should be looking at any bodies besides who we are married to, and I feel that way because of what the bible says. Don't worry, I didn't think you were trying to ridicule. We just see this issue very differently.

I appreciate your willingness to explain why. The biblical reference though has to do with lusting through our eyes, correct? Which has nothing to do with clothing. There are guys who ogle women who are fully clothed. In fact, some clothes bring attention than no clothes at all. I think your assumption is that lust is a natural feeling when someone sees a naked body and I would disagree. If you were around unclothed people - like a nurse or a doctor...or in a life drawing class - seeing the naked body wouldn't be such a shocking or titillating experience. Believe it or not, us men can turn off or on our lust ....it's not automatic and it's not purely driven by the flesh. And most importantly, it's not the flesh that's the problem, but the mind...which we have free will over. Otherwise, why not all women walk around in Burkas?

[chri'stina 190]

I'm not trying to ridicule but to understand - do you feel that we cannot view the naked human body other than in a sexual way? In other words, we cannot appreciate the beauty of the human body separate from our sexuality?

Well, my opinion on this is never popular(like many of my opinions lol). I don't think we should be looking at any bodies besides who we are married to, and I feel that way because of what the bible says. Don't worry, I didn't think you were trying to ridicule. We just see this issue very differently.

I appreciate your willingness to explain why. The biblical reference though has to do with lusting through our eyes, correct? Which has nothing to do with clothing. There are guys who ogle women who are fully clothed. In fact, some clothes bring attention than no clothes at all. I think your assumption is that lust is a natural feeling when someone sees a naked body and I would disagree. If you were around unclothed people - like a nurse or a doctor...or in a life drawing class - seeing the naked body wouldn't be such a shocking or titillating experience. Believe it or not, us men can turn off or on our lust ....it's not automatic and it's not purely driven by the flesh. And most importantly, it's not the flesh that's the problem, but the mind...which we have free will over. Otherwise, why not all women walk around in Burkas?

The bible talks about modesty too. We aren't going to agree on this.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm not trying to ridicule but to understand - do you feel that we cannot view the naked human body other than in a sexual way? In other words, we cannot appreciate the beauty of the human body separate from our sexuality?

Well, my opinion on this is never popular(like many of my opinions lol). I don't think we should be looking at any bodies besides who we are married to, and I feel that way because of what the bible says. Don't worry, I didn't think you were trying to ridicule. We just see this issue very differently.

I appreciate your willingness to explain why. The biblical reference though has to do with lusting through our eyes, correct? Which has nothing to do with clothing. There are guys who ogle women who are fully clothed. In fact, some clothes bring attention than no clothes at all. I think your assumption is that lust is a natural feeling when someone sees a naked body and I would disagree. If you were around unclothed people - like a nurse or a doctor...or in a life drawing class - seeing the naked body wouldn't be such a shocking or titillating experience. Believe it or not, us men can turn off or on our lust ....it's not automatic and it's not purely driven by the flesh. And most importantly, it's not the flesh that's the problem, but the mind...which we have free will over. Otherwise, why not all women walk around in Burkas?

The bible talks about modesty too. We aren't going to agree on this.

hehehe...but it's good to at least understand different POV.

Yes on modesty - but I don't see how one could ever be immodest by being naked...God created us....we had nothing to do with it.

[chri'stina 190]

I'm not trying to ridicule but to understand - do you feel that we cannot view the naked human body other than in a sexual way? In other words, we cannot appreciate the beauty of the human body separate from our sexuality?

Well, my opinion on this is never popular(like many of my opinions lol). I don't think we should be looking at any bodies besides who we are married to, and I feel that way because of what the bible says. Don't worry, I didn't think you were trying to ridicule. We just see this issue very differently.

I appreciate your willingness to explain why. The biblical reference though has to do with lusting through our eyes, correct? Which has nothing to do with clothing. There are guys who ogle women who are fully clothed. In fact, some clothes bring attention than no clothes at all. I think your assumption is that lust is a natural feeling when someone sees a naked body and I would disagree. If you were around unclothed people - like a nurse or a doctor...or in a life drawing class - seeing the naked body wouldn't be such a shocking or titillating experience. Believe it or not, us men can turn off or on our lust ....it's not automatic and it's not purely driven by the flesh. And most importantly, it's not the flesh that's the problem, but the mind...which we have free will over. Otherwise, why not all women walk around in Burkas?

The bible talks about modesty too. We aren't going to agree on this.

hehehe...but it's good to at least understand different POV.

Yes on modesty - but I don't see how one could ever be immodest by being naked...God created us....we had nothing to do with it.

And once we sinned, He covered us with clothing for a reason. He wouldn't have done that if it wasn't necessary to cover our bits up. We had something to do with the sinning part. And as far as I can tell, after that we were never meant to just sit around looking at naked bodies as if it was no big deal.

[alienlovechild 75]

There are guys who ogle women who are fully clothed. In fact, some clothes bring attention than no clothes at all. I think your assumption is that lust is a natural feeling when someone sees a naked body and I would disagree. If you were around unclothed people - like a nurse or a doctor...or in a life drawing class - seeing the naked body wouldn't be such a shocking or titillating experience. Believe it or not, us men can turn off or on our lust ....it's not automatic and it's not purely driven by the flesh.

Most guys aren't doctors or artists and you'd hardly allow your wife play Lady Godiva to test your theory on the average Joe Six-Pack (not the poster, somebody more respectable). You if didn't spend all you time posting and looking for a signature photo, you'd notice Internet porn is a big business because men may be able to turn off their lust but only because they have to.

[HAL 9000 96]

Human religious institutions have not been particularly blind to the inequalities of behavior between the genders.

They've been pretty accepting throughout history.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm not trying to ridicule but to understand - do you feel that we cannot view the naked human body other than in a sexual way? In other words, we cannot appreciate the beauty of the human body separate from our sexuality?

Well, my opinion on this is never popular(like many of my opinions lol). I don't think we should be looking at any bodies besides who we are married to, and I feel that way because of what the bible says. Don't worry, I didn't think you were trying to ridicule. We just see this issue very differently.

I appreciate your willingness to explain why. The biblical reference though has to do with lusting through our eyes, correct? Which has nothing to do with clothing. There are guys who ogle women who are fully clothed. In fact, some clothes bring attention than no clothes at all. I think your assumption is that lust is a natural feeling when someone sees a naked body and I would disagree. If you were around unclothed people - like a nurse or a doctor...or in a life drawing class - seeing the naked body wouldn't be such a shocking or titillating experience. Believe it or not, us men can turn off or on our lust ....it's not automatic and it's not purely driven by the flesh. And most importantly, it's not the flesh that's the problem, but the mind...which we have free will over. Otherwise, why not all women walk around in Burkas?

The bible talks about modesty too. We aren't going to agree on this.

hehehe...but it's good to at least understand different POV.

Yes on modesty - but I don't see how one could ever be immodest by being naked...God created us....we had nothing to do with it.

And once we sinned, He covered us with clothing for a reason. He wouldn't have done that if it wasn't necessary to cover our bits up. We had something to do with the sinning part. And as far as I can tell, after that we were never meant to just sit around looking at naked bodies as if it was no big deal.

Interesting take on that. I was taught that when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they became aware of their nakedness and ashamed. It wasn't God who instructed them to put on clothes but their own shamefulness. The tree is metaphorical for being aware of right from wrong. As they became aware of right from wrong, which they obtained by disobeying God, they became aware of their imperfections.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Mister Fancypants

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

LONDON: Pop singer Michael Jackson has converted to Islam and changed his name to Mikaeel.

The 50-year-old star, pledged his allegiance to the Koran in a ceremony at a friend's mansion in Los Angeles, the Sun reported.

Jackson sat on the floor wearing a tiny hat after an Imam was summoned to officiate -- days before the singer is due to appear at London's High Court where he is being sued by an Arab Sheik, the paper said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Michael...how/3740517.cms

A perfect fit.

edit: does he have to give up 'Jesus Juice'?

Edited November 22, 2008 by LuckyStrike

[one...two...tree 2,762]

There are guys who ogle women who are fully clothed. In fact, some clothes bring attention than no clothes at all. I think your assumption is that lust is a natural feeling when someone sees a naked body and I would disagree. If you were around unclothed people - like a nurse or a doctor...or in a life drawing class - seeing the naked body wouldn't be such a shocking or titillating experience. Believe it or not, us men can turn off or on our lust ....it's not automatic and it's not purely driven by the flesh.

Most guys aren't doctors or artists and you'd hardly allow your wife play Lady Godiva to test your theory on the average Joe Six-Pack (not the poster, somebody more respectable). You if didn't spend all you time posting and looking for a signature photo, you'd notice Internet porn is a big business because men may be able to turn off their lust but only because they have to.

Context is everything. Let me ask you - do you or will you allow your wife to go swimming in a public area wearing only a bathing suit? A place where its common for men to ogle at women. The fact is, men ogle at women all the time - whether they are wearing clothes or not. Now I'm not suggesting that my wife go swimming in the nude. What I'm saying is, the problem isn't the nakedness or the woman, but the oglers. The notion that it is the woman's responsibility to clothe themselves up to avoid be ogled at is no different than the Taliban who insist their women wear burkas.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Chicago 1973

[chri'stina 190]

Just wanted to say that I never singled out females needing to be the only modest ones.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Just wanted to say that I never singled out females needing to be the only modest ones.

[chri'stina 190]

AJ, you are bad.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

That can happen anywhere. It's not like he was out to flash crack, it just happened.