employed vs unemployed

[Sprailenes 47]

Yo who be dissin me?

[trailmix 77]

Yo who be dissin me?

Yeah, the thread is kind of mean spirited really. I think krikit had the right idea by not participating, but I like polls

[thetreble 19]

Yo who be dissin me?

wwoooorrddddd!

[jedinite 0]

SapphireDreams: Yes I work in the IT Industry, I have a few recruiters looking for positions for me at the moment and I had a very promising lead sent to me this afternoon, and November/December is the slowest timeframe for hiring in most companies since it's right around the holidays. Some companies may hire in Dec just to fill positions and to use the remaining portions of the budget up, the whole "use it or lose it" mentality for hiring. I'm not too concerned but I would like to move down sooner rather than later.

Everyone else (pretty much) Well it seems that I've sparked quit a debate and ruffled some feathers. I hope I didn't offend anyone but I know I probably rubbed a few of you the wrong way.

It's good reading your responses because it helps me understand different aspects of life and people's life choices. You guys are absolutely right, no one says that you need 2 people working in a household with or without kids. I'm not judging anyone's choices in life, I wanted to get an understanding if it was something more by choice or because the whole moving process is very difficult. And of course I understand many of you may have even considered taking a sabbatical and need to re-discover what you want in life, or you have enough savings and your spouse makes enough to support your combined lifestyle that you chose to help the community. I don't disapprove of that at all, and I don't consider not getting paid to do something the same as not having a job. Volunteer work is very much a job, and we must all be thankful of volunteers.

What I consider a "trophy wife/husband" is one that doesn't work, doesn't have responsibility, doesn't have goals, lives to either wait around for the spouse or lives a life similar to what you might see in Hollywood or House Wives of Orange County. Sure if you're husband/wife makes a lot of money that you can afford that lifestyle, well I am jealous of you and disappointed that instead of doing something good for society your contribution is gossiping about the latest news or shopping for the latest fashion. I know, I know very stereotypical view of a trophy spouse but that's the type of person I don't know if I could ever relate to.

On the other hand, there are people that drop all responsibilities and decide to live on welfare or whatever. And I view them very much the same as the "trophy spouse" I described above, except instead of having money and wasting time, he/she abuses the gov't for support and also doesn't try to get themselves out of the rut they are in, and they don't have the will to contribute to society. Please don't read into this if you volunteer, or have real responsibilities while your husband/wife is at work, you obviously aren't included in this category.

What I consider non-contributing people is someone that can't get up to do anything productive, thinks that playing video games all day is a task, doing leisurely activities each and everyday that is not some how leading to a pursuit in that activity as a task (ex. of non-contributing activities: going to the gym, playing sports, tanning, playing at the beach, shopping etc. ); of course if you are training as an athlete well that is an acceptable pursuit of a profession or if you have some hobby like painting or photography that could translate into something that would benefit society, therefore doesn't fit in my criteria of "slacker." I could write all the permutations of things that make up a slacker but I'm sure you can all use common-sense to figure it out. If you wake up to go surfing or just finished 3 levels in World of Warcraft, that's not helping me or anyone else in this society, it only benefits your personal enjoyment in life therefore you can't consider that a "productive" activity, therefore it fits in the slacker pile. Ok enough explaining that.

Specifically to MrsCat (and the like), I would consider you a homemaker despite the fact that you have no kids, because you do take care of the home. If you and your husband hired help to cut the grass, do cooking, shopping etc. then you'd remove yourself from the homemaker category but you do all that. So I apologize for not considering that homemakers do not always have to have kids.

Oh and if you've worked for a significant amount of time in your life and you have enough to sustain your own early retirement, then good for you and don't be offended by me because I don't consider you "slackers" either, you have put in your dues and done well for yourself so enjoy your reward.

To restate my reasoning behind my posting this thread, well it was to better understand people's choices in life and to discover whether there was either a lot of deadbeats trying to run away from responsibilities by moving to the US, or if these people put in their dues to society, or have had bad luck in finding employment or a career (including volunteer work) that they haven't be able to do anything. It wasn't to call anyone out or judge people individually. Though, if I'm to judge one person, it's the person that posted about ditching their Canadian debts to live in the US. It's people like that, that make the economy as bad as it is today and I don't think it's fair that the rest of us (either through tax dollars or losing jobs or whatever) have to pay more to make up for your mistakes.

Sorry for the terribly long rant and I hope I was concise enough for you all to understand it all. Love you all (except Mr/Mrs Deadbeat trying to ditch their debt).

[MrsCat 6]

Jedi, while I may not agree with you, I do respect a man whose willing to review people's responses and craft a thoughtful one back.

Now lets all hug and make up.

[k34 0]

I feel like the EI reference needs to be addressed fully... maybe I am wrong, but I get the impression that you equate EI with some type of handout. EI is a fully self-funded (over-self-funded actually) insurance program. I have paid my premiums for 20 years (since I was 13), so when I am entitled to collect due to not being able to work, yes, I intend to do so. I also intend to work in the US as soon as bureaucratically and humanly possible.

If you are in a situation in which you are entitled to make a claim through auto insurance or homeowner's insurance, would you feel it would be somehow taking advantage to do so? The situation is comparable.

[Team J and B 2]

Jedinite - I see where you are coming from with your thread. I also was disgusted by that thread about ditching one's Canadian debts after one moves to the USA.

EI is an entitlement, imho, whereas welfare (more PC it's called government assistance or income assistance) is more of a privilege. I worked in the BC welfare system for nearly four years and have seen it all. It's always the <1% of the bad apples that spoil the bunch, just like that guy who wanted to ditch his debt, I'm sure s/he's a rare one.

To answer your question, I was working up till the week I left for the USA on my K1 visa. I've always worked all my life and paid into EI. I claimed EI for three months during a lay off a few years ago (incidentally from the welfare agency) and I actually felt ashamed of applying for EI. But I got over it because it's something I had paid into for years and told myself that when I needed it, it was my right.

Anyway, when I moved here to the USA, I applied for EI as well but am not eligible. Rather than dispute it, I let it go.

My husband supports us and I'm fortunate I don't need to work (not that I could anyway when I first arrived to the USA, then I got pregnant soon after). Our short term plan is for me to raise our child(ren) and make the home. Some days I feel like I'm a trophy housewife of San Francisco city, but I know I'm not because I appreciate all that my husband provides and am just grateful for the turn my life has taken. If and when I need to work, I'm definitely stepping up to the plate.

[DeadPoolX 9]

I've considered myself as a homemaker when I was home and not working. Keeping the household running is a job IMHO, kids included or not!

I agree. Being a homemaker is quite possibly one of the toughest and least understood jobs today. There's much more to it than sitting on the couch, watching TV while stuffing bon-bons into your mouth, all in preperation to go out on a shopping spree.

Homemakers keep the house running and in order. If there are children, they also take care of them, seeing to their wants and needs. Many household chores are also completed by a homemaker.

To put this into perspective, if both spouses are working, they generally have to use their weekends or time after work to do chores. Not many people are too interested in doing this after a hard day of work or spending their time off completing these tasks. Even more importantly, if children are involved, a homemaker can save a ton of money on daycare costs.

So perhaps a homemaker doesn't bring in a financially recognized income, but in taking on that job, tons of time and money gets saved in the process.

[trailmix 77]

Wow, I can only imagine that it must be hard to have compassion and understanding for people when you are looking down upon them from an ivory tower.

Who do you think you are? Where do you get this over-judgemental nature from? How dare you sit in judgement of people and in particular people in this forum.

In this thread you have a bunch of intelligent people, attempting to have an intelligent conversation on why they are moving to the States and how they are accomplishing that. Why anyone would want to share their story with you, I have no idea. I can only imagine that, like myself, I answered the poll and then actually 'really' read your posting, or they are being nice, as people generally are in this forum.

In your post above you have reached a whole new level of pigeon holing and arrogance.

Edited November 21, 2008 by trailmix

[thetreble 19]

I tend to agree with Trailmix, Jednite. You keep saying you want this information for your own purposes...Are you doing a study? Are you writing a paper/essay/report?

Why is it any of your business, really, who works, doesn't work, etc. and if someone doesn't work...what status does that give them here vs. someone who does work?

I thought I wanted to be working person all my life, but the older I get and the more I will want kids in my near future, the more I think I will want to stay home with them if it is economically possible. My mum was there every day for me as a home maker and I wouldn't have had it any other way.

[Emancipation 2]

What I consider a "trophy wife/husband" is one that doesn't work, doesn't have responsibility, doesn't have goals, lives to either wait around for the spouse or lives a life similar to what you might see in Hollywood or House Wives of Orange County. Sure if you're husband/wife makes a lot of money that you can afford that lifestyle, well I am jealous of you and disappointed that instead of doing something good for society your contribution is gossiping about the latest news or shopping for the latest fashion. I know, I know very stereotypical view of a trophy spouse but that's the type of person I don't know if I could ever relate to.

I think you watch too much TV. I don't know anyone on either side of the border that lives like this.. and if someone did do a family based visa who was in this scenario I highly doubt they would be here on VJ just "hanging" out.. Pretty sure they'd have a lawyer doing all the work for 'em. Remember that House Wives of OC is a television show.. I'm pretty sure that's not even reality for those women.. they all play a character on the show and I'm almost certain they ham it up when the cameras are on.. it's an entertaining show, but that's about it, not "reality" - there is no such thing as reality TV IMO.

[MsZ 6]

If people want to defend K-1ers they may feel free, but I don't know why the upset. There was ONE person I called out on their intention to ditch debt. One. If we could have gone the faster route because we could afford to, we certainly would have. Who wouldn't?

Anyone who is having problems with that may want to examine whether they feel they have an inferiority complex because they have to adjust status or something. ;-) Is this green card envy?

I'm kidding!!!!

I did the stay-at-home mom thing. I sure was wrong about it. I'm much happier having returned to work after the kids got a bit older.

[Tankgurl38 0]

This thread has seemed to open up a whole can of worms.

I missed the part in MsZ's response where the comment about shirking responsibilites was directed towards one poster, I guess I was already fired up about the EI comments and other things that I read it the wrong way and it was the straw that pushed my buttons. I don't think anyone here can afford to shirk their responsibilities and life for most everyone not being able to work right away when they get down to the US is going to be a really BIG adjustment. Going to be eating alot of imported Canadian Kraft Dinner for a long time until my fiance and I can be a two salary home.

Yup... greencard envy....that's it. I can hardly wait until I can get my greencard so I can sit back in the US, the land of milk and honey and eat bonbons and play videogames all day. Dreaming of the Peggy Bundy lifestyle baby. Tee hee! Oh Al!!!!!!!!!!

You mean the Housewives of OC aren't real?!?!! Damn......

Edited November 21, 2008 by Tankgurl38

[MsZ 6]

I didn't live in OC so I can't speak for the left coast, and I've never seen the show. We were a bunch of moms running the kids to preschool, helping out there, meeting for lunch with the kiddies, play dates, house stuff, older child's school goings on, missing adult activities... not that there wasn't glamor like the short landscaper dude who kept making passes at me. That was indeed the life.

If you look at the Family part of this forum, you'll see that there are people who come here to get a free ride of one sort or another. Taking advantage of an unsuspecting or perhaps naive person who gave them passage to the US... But most people I think and hope, enter into this ridiculous journey because they fell in love and want to be with the object of their affection. In cases where one party has nothing to lose there's more risk that they are coming to better their lives perhaps in addition, perhaps instead of, just to be with their SO. But a sufficient number of people come to the US for a spouse that's not exactly financially stable. And especially if you're talking Canada to the US, why would you make that move if not for love? The US doesn't really offer a whole heck of a lot that Canada doesn't. And anyone with a clue knows that you can't really run away from your problems. You can try, but you're going to regret it sooner or later.

I'd suspect that other countries have a far greater problem with people finding their way into the US for questionable purposes.

That said, the immigrants that I know work harder and longer than most US-born citizens. Why? Because they see the opportunity that those of us who have been here forever fail to see.

[Galateia 1]

Wow, I can only imagine that it must be hard to have compassion and understanding for people when you are looking down upon them from an ivory tower.

Who do you think you are? Where do you get this over-judgemental nature from? How dare you sit in judgement of people and in particular people in this forum.

In this thread you have a bunch of intelligent people, attempting to have an intelligent conversation on why they are moving to the States and how they are accomplishing that. Why anyone would want to share their story with you, I have no idea. I can only imagine that, like myself, I answered the poll and then actually 'really' read your posting, or they are being nice, as people generally are in this forum.

In your post above you have reached a whole new level of pigeon holing and arrogance.

Here, here!

As a hard-working, non-trophy-wife, student-debt-paying, primary-provider, I was extremely offended by the OP and remain offended after the 'explanation'. Trophy wives? Are you kidding me? If someone's prospective USC spouse made that much money, you can bet your boots some high-priced lawyer would be filing everything, they wouldn't be showing up here on VJ, desperate and confused like the rest of us.

If you want to rant about the abuses USCs are put through by money-grubbing marriage scammers, you are in the WRONG FORUM. This is the Canadian forum, where if anything, we are giving up a BETTER quality of life to be with our spouse. Yes, our spouse is worth it, but we are still sacrificing to be with them, not treating the K visas as a 'ticket to a lazy life'. Ooo please, I want to have to choose whether or not I can afford to see the doctor, regardless of how sick I am!

And EI? Guess what, I paid into that for YEARS and used it for 4 MONTHS total. Ooo. Such a drain on the system! They don't call it employment INSURANCE because it sounds cute. Unlike welfare, you pay into it so it's there when you need it, and how long you can get it depends on how much you paid into it. Equating it with welfare indicates severe lack of knowledge as to how it works, or deliberate ignoring of the facts for the sake of a florid argument.

The debt-ditcher, if you hadn't noticed, was roundly reviled by the rest of the Canada forum, and it's just insulting that you would use that as a basis to 'question' everyone else who is in here. 'Pushed buttons'? Yes, it pushes my buttons when anyone says judgemental, arrogant, ignorant statements and paints innocent people with their over-generalizing brush, regardless of what issue that brush is coloured with.

In the Canadian forum, we pride ourselves on being stereotypically 'Canadian' in here: polite, ultra-nice, friendly, supportive. While we can't stop anyone from behaving or posting shamefully, we can and do call them out on it. That goes for the debt-ditchers and the stereotyping judgement-casters. The responses on this thread speak for themselves.