If this video doesnt move you, then nothing ever will!

[Veiled Princess 1]

i think killing the animal should be a method that provides as instantly a death as possible, rather than some slow death like cutting it's throat and letting it thrash about for an eternity.

i also despise fur coats too.

I know most people here are not muslim and I'm not trying to push my religious beliefs on anyone here but in Islam there is a proper way to slaughter animals we're going to eat. The Islamic method is the humane way I was referring to and you can see this article about a scientific test done to record the level of pain an animal feels when his throat is cut (in Islamic fashion) as opposed to electric shock.

I believe the level of pain and disomfort the animal feels at the time of slaughter is what classifies it as humane or inhumane.

i'm familiar with halal.

copied from wikipedia (halal): Islamically, the prescribed method is to cut through the large arteries in the neck along with the esophagus and trachea with one swipe of a nonserrated blade and drain all blood and impurities from the animal, because as noted above, the consumption of blood itself is forbidden. During the draining of the blood, the animal is not handled until it has fully died.

which essentially means the animal bleeds to death....such does not meet my earlier statement of an instant death.

The only time a animal "throat is cut" is when the rabbi is making kosher meat.

not true unless you were referring only to the jewish religion.

Since wikipedia is not an Islamic site I would recommend you not take any Islamic knowledge from it. It's true that the consumption of blood is forbidden but that is not the only reason that the animal is to be slaughtered in that manner. As the article I posted shows, that manner is the most humane and as the tests proved, it is the least painful for the animal.

I was talking about Jewish and other religious. For normal American Meat the animal throat is not cut!!!

This is incorrect. The jewish religion is not the only one to do this. As we've already discussed, this is the same manner in which animals are slaughtered in Islam.

[bubba100 0]

I think that is what I said, JEWISH OR OTHER RELIGIOUS GROUP.....

[Veiled Princess 1]

i think killing the animal should be a method that provides as instantly a death as possible, rather than some slow death like cutting it's throat and letting it thrash about for an eternity.

i also despise fur coats too.

The only time a animal "throat is cut" is when the rabbi is making kosher meat. PETA sued a Jewish Rabbi in New York in 1992, the federal court rule in favor on the Jewish Rabbi.....

Kosher animals must be slaughtered according to the rigid regulations of shechita (pronounced sheh-KHEE-taw), Hebrew for slaughtering. There are literally hundreds of laws governing shechitah, all of which combine to produce a painless dispatch for the animal to be slaughtered and the freshest, cleanest meat you'll ever eat. But primarily, shechitah involves the shochet (kosher butcher, pronounced SHOW-khet) drawing a meticulously sharpened, imperfection-free blade swiftly, reciting a blessing ("Blessed are You... Who has sanctified us with His commandments and commanded us concerning slaughtering"), and smoothly running the blade back and forth across the animal's neck, instantly ending its life in a most humane manner. Of course, before the shochet even becomes a shochet, he must be thoroughly versed in the laws governing the preparation and usage of the knife and the handling of the animal both before and after shechitah

I was talking about Jewish and other religious. For normal American Meat the animal throat is not cut!!!

I think that is what I said, JEWISH OR OTHER RELIGIOUS GROUP.....

From your posts it seemed to me that you were saying that of Jewish and other religious groups, the Jewish are the only ones who cut the throats of the animals. Muslims in America slaughter their meat by Islamic standards as well. I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying.

[pedroh 21]

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=meet_your_meat

This is an undercover video called 'Meet your meat' ... its heartbreaking!

Oh... it moved me....

Now I want to go up to the corner coffee house... and order a double Big Boss burger... that's about two 1/2 pound hamburger patties.... with some cheese.. and add a bit of bacon....

and maybe some kind of side of chicken...

Yum!

When humans are treated perfectly, then I might actually give a flying #### about food animals.

yea i think sometimes people worry more about how we treat animals rather how we treat another human beings..

[babybunny 2]

yeah I agree with Pedroh...

[luvaLimey 0]

Actually, Halal and Kosher slaughter methods are NOT humane.

Here is a study conducted over a period of 4 years by someone who doesn't have any religious bias toward skewing the facts.

study: http://www.fawc.org.uk/reports/pb8347.pdf

If you'd rather not read the whole report, the report details the finding of the study specifically as it relates to Kosher and Halal slaughtering methods on pages 42-44.

There is also an interpretation of the findings in the report in this news article: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-680925,00.html

excerpts from the study:

"The Farm Animal Welfare Council, which is appointed and funded by the Government, has concluded after a four-year study that Jewish and Muslim methods of slaughter are inhumane."

"195. When a very large transverse incision is made across the neck a number of vital tissues are transected including: skin, muscle, trachea, oesophagus, carotid arteries, jugular veins, major nerve trunks (e.g. vagus and phrenic nerves) plus numerous minor nerves. Such a drastic cut will inevitably trigger a barrage of sensory information to the brain in a sensible (conscious) animal. We are persuaded that such a massive injury

would result in very significant pain and distress in the period before insensibility supervenes."

and

"198. Loss of sensibility post-cut can be detected by observing brain function through electroencephalographic methodology - a lack of response indicating certain insensibility or death. The scientific evidence shows that sheep become insensible within 5-7 seconds of the cut (3-7 seconds in goats). Adult cattle, however, may take between 22 and 40

seconds to become insensible. This period may be extended should occlusion of the carotid arteries take place. Work done on calves has shown a variation in period to insensibility from 10-120 seconds depending on the extent of occlusion of the carotid arteries or ballooning in blood vessels. Furthermore, a separate study of brain response after Shechita slaughter of cattle compared to that after captive-bolt stunning indicated

responses for up to 60 seconds in the former and no response in the latter. (The difference in the times to loss of sensibility between the various species is due to anatomical differences in the blood supply to the brain)."

Edited June 4, 2006 by luvaLimey

[bubba100 0]

Actually, Halal and Kosher slaughter methods are NOT humane.

Here is a study conducted over a period of 4 years by someone who doesn't have any religious bias toward skewing the facts.

study: http://www.fawc.org.uk/reports/pb8347.pdf

If you'd rather not read the whole report, the report details the finding of the study specifically as it relates to Kosher and Halal slaughtering methods on pages 42-44.

There is also an interpretation of the findings in the report in this news article: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-680925,00.html

excerpts from the study:

"The Farm Animal Welfare Council, which is appointed and funded by the Government, has concluded after a four-year study that Jewish and Muslim methods of slaughter are inhumane."

"195. When a very large transverse incision is made across the neck a number of vital tissues are transected including: skin, muscle, trachea, oesophagus, carotid arteries, jugular veins, major nerve trunks (e.g. vagus and phrenic nerves) plus numerous minor nerves. Such a drastic cut will inevitably trigger a barrage of sensory information to the brain in a sensible (conscious) animal. We are persuaded that such a massive injury

would result in very significant pain and distress in the period before insensibility supervenes."

and

"198. Loss of sensibility post-cut can be detected by observing brain function through electroencephalographic methodology - a lack of response indicating certain insensibility or death. The scientific evidence shows that sheep become insensible within 5-7 seconds of the cut (3-7 seconds in goats). Adult cattle, however, may take between 22 and 40

seconds to become insensible. This period may be extended should occlusion of the carotid arteries take place. Work done on calves has shown a variation in period to insensibility from 10-120 seconds depending on the extent of occlusion of the carotid arteries or ballooning in blood vessels. Furthermore, a separate study of brain response after Shechita slaughter of cattle compared to that after captive-bolt stunning indicated

responses for up to 60 seconds in the former and no response in the latter. (The difference in the times to loss of sensibility between the various species is due to anatomical differences in the blood supply to the brain)."

USDA, PETA and really any animal group can and have done studies on this issue. There have been many lawsuit to stop this practice but as everyone know here in America when have a document called the "BILL OF RIGHTS" and according to the "BILL OF RIGHTS" amendment I... Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. so as long as the JEWISH and other RELIGIOUS GROUP faith states meat must be slaughter is this way according to their law it would be done.

[Veiled Princess 1]

According to the USDA, both Jewish and Islamic methods of slaughter are humane.

"Section 1902 ( B ) of the Humane Methods of Slaughter Act of 1978 provides that “slaughtering in accordance with the ritual requirements of the Jewish faith or any other religious faith that prescribes a method of slaughter whereby the animal suffers loss of consciousness by anemia of the brain caused by the simultaneous and instantaneous severance of the carotid arteries with a sharp instrument and handling in connection with such slaughtering” is humane.

Therefore, an establishment may slaughter in accordance with the requirements of Kosher, Halal (Islamic), or any other religious faith’s requirements. Inspection program personnel should not interfere with any slaughter procedures that are performed in accordance with such requirements. To enable inspection program personnel to be informed about what is occurring, they are to request that the establishment provide a written statement from an official of the religion who has authority over the enforcement of religious dietary laws that describes the ritual slaughter method that the faith prescribes, if this description has not been attached by the establishment to FSIS Form 5200-2, Application for Federal Meat, Poultry, or Import Inspection. "

PETA is stupid and I don't know why anyone would take them seriously. Weren't they just in the news not too long ago because they put the animals they "rescued" to sleep?

Edited June 4, 2006 by veiledprincesslayla

[ladybutterfly 0]

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=meet_your_meat

This is an undercover video called 'Meet your meat' ... its heartbreaking!

Oh... it moved me....

Now I want to go up to the corner coffee house... and order a double Big Boss burger... that's about two 1/2 pound hamburger patties.... with some cheese.. and add a bit of bacon....

and maybe some kind of side of chicken...

Yum!

When humans are treated perfectly, then I might actually give a flying #### about food animals.

yea i think sometimes people worry more about how we treat animals rather how we treat another human beings..

The reason some of us compasionate, caring people who have a heart care about animals so much and their welfare is because animals dont have a voice, humans do! If we didnt have a voice for the poor, innocent, defenceless animals then who would!!!

On a side note after reading all the posts on this topic I can not believe how many people are so sick in the head and how many heartless, sarcastic comments have been written about going to grab a burger and stuff. Even if you eat meat, and i agree, you are never going to stop humans from eating meat, if you had any kind of heart or compassion you would have commented that "yes, the treatment of these animals is awful and no creature should have to suffer like that but i will still eat meat as I enjoy it." What a sad sad world we live in when so many people think they are better than anyone or anything else and they think that just because we are humans we can do whatever we like to animals. At the end of the day we are all gods creatures and no creature is better than the other!

Edited June 4, 2006 by ladybutterfly

[bubba100 0]

I am sure PETA has done some good when it come to animals!!!! PETA came to Montgomery last year and stood outside a elementary school dress like cow with fake blood draining from the neck. When the kids saw this they started to cry and scream. Kids that young doesn't need to be exposed to that. According to a PETA Spokeperson, they want kids to understand when they go to McDonalds, Wendys, Burger King and other resturants the meat they were eating came from a cattle they bleed to death. #######!!!!

Edited June 4, 2006 by bubba100

[Veiled Princess 1]

I am sure PETA has done some good when it come to animals!!!! PETA came to Montgomery last year and stood outside a elementary school dress like cow with fake blood draining from the neck. When the kids saw this they started to cry and scream. Kids that young doesn't need to be exposed to that. According to a PETA Spokeperson, they want kids to understand when they go to McDonalds, Wendys, Burger King and other resturants the meat they were eating came from a cattle they bleed to death. #######!!!!

My son would have probably asked the "cow" when the burgers would be ready

[luvaLimey 0]

The USDA are pretty useless in enforcing the HMSA anyway. They don't monitor the living conditions, the transportation or any treatment prior to the actual slaughter: all they are concerned with is that the animal is unconcious before they begin cutting it up. (with the exception of Halal and Kosher slaughterhouses, of course)

They also used to have the power to halt the production line if they saw any non-compliance, but they no longer have that power, since it caused too much of a delay.

[dalegg 143]

On a side note after reading all the posts on this topic I can not believe how many people are so sick in the head and how many heartless, sarcastic comments have been written about going to grab a burger and stuff. Even if you eat meat, and i agree, you are never going to stop humans from eating meat, if you had any kind of heart or compassion you would have commented that "yes, the treatment of these animals is awful and no creature should have to suffer like that but i will still eat meat as I enjoy it." What a sad sad world we live in when so many people think they are better than anyone or anything else and they think that just because we are humans we can do whatever we like to animals. At the end of the day we are all gods creatures and no creature is better than the other!

The sad thing is that I agree with you on this. Sad because we as humans are omnivores. We are what we are in part because of our natural urges to eat meat. I've heard it said that meat is what help develop the human mind. I have to admit that sometimes I am a bit sad at the fact that I am eating something that was alive, so I do it shamefully, but out of necessity-kind of like a teen-aged boy who has just learned to masturbate.

[bubba100 0]

The USDA are pretty useless in enforcing the HMSA anyway. They don't monitor the living conditions, the transportation or any treatment prior to the actual slaughter: all they are concerned with is that the animal is unconcious before they begin cutting it up. (with the exception of Halal and Kosher slaughterhouses, of course)

They also used to have the power to halt the production line if they saw any non-compliance, but they no longer have that power, since it caused too much of a delay.

You are right the USDA doesn't monitor the living conditions or transportation of animals, this respondbility falls to the local STATE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

[luvaLimey 0]

I find the way you capitalise your main "shouty" points to be kind of an offensive way of posting. sorry. Do't know if you mean to be offensive or not, but it's very reminicent of someone trying to point out what a dumbass I am. I don't like it at all.