If this video doesnt move you, then nothing ever will!

[Sister Fracas 5]

Too many comments in this thread to be able to respond to this late in the thread, so I'll just give my view. And I didn't watch the video because I can have a pretty good idea of what's on there....yes i've seen enough programs and read enough material to know what does go on at some places.

Being tree-hugging, bunny-lover, I once thought PETA would be an organization I might be interested in supporting. But I read a bit too much about the way they go about getting their message across and TO ME, they come across as fanatical and holier-than-thou. This was also reinforced when I worked at our local zoo and they would occasionally come and nose about looking for animals being mistreated. I know some people have a problem with zoos too and I'll not get into that whole debate except to say that appreciation for animals in the wild and the desire to support conservation programs isn't oging to come through watching the Discovery channel. IMO people are only going to truly learn to care about animals when they are able to see them up close and learn about them...and in my opinion, the majority of people will NOT travel all around the world to see animals in their natural habitats, so responsible, conservation-minded institutions do their best to bring the animals to the people, educate them about their plight and in some cases breed speicies for possible reintroduction to the wild. But PETA doesn't believe that. Oooops, sorry that zoo bit was a bit long...

ANYWHOOOOOOOOO....as a tree-hugging, bunny-lover I DO eat meat AND veggies. I love meat, especially a really great rib-eye steak, but I try my very best to be a consumer who will choose organic and free-range meats (and eggs) in the grocery store and I "try" to seek out restaurants who use organic and free range products. It's not so hard to find here and because it's something they are usually proud of, they go out of their way to let you know that is what they offer. I also try to find products sold by local farmers because I believe they probably have better practices than the mass produced big factory farmers (ie Perdue.) My choice is to stay away from Perdue chickens... too dang big to NOT be receiving growth hormones. Instead I buy Smart Chicken, organic, free-range because I like their business practices. If I'm still an ignorant ####, I guess...so be it. *shrug* As far as cosmetics and other beauty products, I just try to go for those that aren't tested on animals. I think I do the best I can... *shrug again*

As for me being better than the cow/chick/pig....no, I don't believe as a member of planet earth, I'm any better....just as I don't believe the lion is any better than the antelope. I do think all of the earth's creatures should be treated with respect and not treated cruelly. And as far as something like fur coats...I hate them. But here's the difference between me and PETA...if someone asks me what I think about their coat, I'll tell them and them I'm sure they'll be sorry they asked when I tell them how many animals were killed to make it. But I'm also not going to stand on a corner throwing fake blood at anyone wearing one. There are other ways of getting messages across without preaching or attacking....because then people only get defensive and any possible positive message is lost.

[Nessa 23]

This is still going?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Membership now open for the real PETA-

[Sister Fracas 5]

This is still going?

soz... I only just read it for the first time this morning... *slinks off to only the most current threads*

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

The viable alternative to that line of thought is that everything was created by a higher power and that we're not just here as some happy accident.

Actually, that alternative is not viable. There is not an iota of actual scientific evidence in support of it.

I guess it's not only Christians who drink the Kreationist Kool Aid.

[gimygirl 0]

ANYWHOOOOOOOOO....as a tree-hugging, bunny-lover I DO eat meat AND veggies.

frances ....

[ladyspotthedog 0]

Ok, I'm a meat eater myself so I'll clarify that before I start.

I thought the video was awful and I would sincerely hope that the majority of farms and farmers do not treat their livestock anywhere near like that and I'm pretty certain that nowadays they probably don't. I do think however, and this is a point that hasn't come up as yet, that if there are animals being kept in cramped conditions etc it all boils down to economics ie: the consumer wants meat as cheaply as possible ergo, the producers try to get as much out as quickly and cheaply (to them) as possible. I mean just look at the price difference between organic and non organic produce (meat or veggies), personally I would much prefer to eat a organic veggie but it is cost prohibative most of the time! Likewise for meat. I'm not saying that this is right but it is probably the facts of the matter, get the consumer to pay more and maybe just maybe, meat production would be less 'cruel'??? Unfortunately it ain't gonna happen.....people have to live within their means and that, for most families, means maybe not the cheapest stuff but definately not the most expensive, after all we all have to budget from time to time....sad but true!!

Now if you want to be a vegetarian kudos to you, I would ask you this though.....you have dogs....do you feed them meat????? Food for thought????

[Sister Fracas 5]

ANYWHOOOOOOOOO....as a tree-hugging, bunny-lover I DO eat meat AND veggies.

frances ....

YAYYYYY for the tree huggers!

I tried to edit my last post....but it wouldn't let me so...

I DID want to add that it's not fair to say that only caring, compassionate people will choose not to eat meat. I think we all choose what's important to us...whether it be animal/wildlife conservation, not to be confused with animal rights, environmental concerns, helping children/elderly/homeless, or any host of charities. I accept that some folks would think I'm nutters for caring about trees and bunnies....but that's ok...I won't let it bother me. I at least know the trees and bunnies like me! hahahahaa

Ok, I'm a meat eater myself so I'll clarify that before I start.

I thought the video was awful and I would sincerely hope that the majority of farms and farmers do not treat their livestock anywhere near like that and I'm pretty certain that nowadays they probably don't. I do think however, and this is a point that hasn't come up as yet, that if there are animals being kept in cramped conditions etc it all boils down to economics ie: the consumer wants meat as cheaply as possible ergo, the producers try to get as much out as quickly and cheaply (to them) as possible. I mean just look at the price difference between organic and non organic produce (meat or veggies), personally I would much prefer to eat a organic veggie but it is cost prohibative most of the time! Likewise for meat. I'm not saying that this is right but it is probably the facts of the matter, get the consumer to pay more and maybe just maybe, meat production would be less 'cruel'??? Unfortunately it ain't gonna happen.....people have to live within their means and that, for most families, means maybe not the cheapest stuff but definately not the most expensive, after all we all have to budget from time to time....sad but true!!

Now if you want to be a vegetarian kudos to you, I would ask you this though.....you have dogs....do you feed them meat????? Food for thought????

Sure, I totally understand your point....and I KNOW I spend more on my free-range and organic products...but for me, that's ok because I'm not spending the money elsewhere...like in a tank of gas. I understand peeps have to make their choices...it's not always cheap to eat the best. I don't think your post was directed at me and my more expensie choices, but just wanted to clarify again that we all make the choices that are the most important to us.

Edited June 4, 2006 by Frances

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

... we all make the choices that are the most important to us.

Exactly. How we spend our money is our business.

[Ban Hammer 14,269]

I accept that some folks would think I'm nutters for caring about trees and bunnies....but that's ok...I won't let it bother me.

hey now.....i love my bunnies too

[gimygirl 0]

[ladyspotthedog 0]

ANYWHOOOOOOOOO....as a tree-hugging, bunny-lover I DO eat meat AND veggies.

frances ....

YAYYYYY for the tree huggers!

I tried to edit my last post....but it wouldn't let me so...

I DID want to add that it's not fair to say that only caring, compassionate people will choose not to eat meat. I think we all choose what's important to us...whether it be animal/wildlife conservation, not to be confused with animal rights, environmental concerns, helping children/elderly/homeless, or any host of charities. I accept that some folks would think I'm nutters for caring about trees and bunnies....but that's ok...I won't let it bother me. I at least know the trees and bunnies like me! hahahahaa

Ok, I'm a meat eater myself so I'll clarify that before I start.

I thought the video was awful and I would sincerely hope that the majority of farms and farmers do not treat their livestock anywhere near like that and I'm pretty certain that nowadays they probably don't. I do think however, and this is a point that hasn't come up as yet, that if there are animals being kept in cramped conditions etc it all boils down to economics ie: the consumer wants meat as cheaply as possible ergo, the producers try to get as much out as quickly and cheaply (to them) as possible. I mean just look at the price difference between organic and non organic produce (meat or veggies), personally I would much prefer to eat a organic veggie but it is cost prohibative most of the time! Likewise for meat. I'm not saying that this is right but it is probably the facts of the matter, get the consumer to pay more and maybe just maybe, meat production would be less 'cruel'??? Unfortunately it ain't gonna happen.....people have to live within their means and that, for most families, means maybe not the cheapest stuff but definately not the most expensive, after all we all have to budget from time to time....sad but true!!

Now if you want to be a vegetarian kudos to you, I would ask you this though.....you have dogs....do you feed them meat????? Food for thought????

Sure, I totally understand your point....and I KNOW I spend more on my free-range and organic products...but for me, that's ok because I'm not spending the money elsewhere...like in a tank of gas. I understand peeps have to make their choices...it's not always cheap to eat the best. I don't think your post was directed at me and my more expensie choices, but just wanted to clarify again that we all make the choices that are the most important to us.

That's very true but sadly a lot of people can't afford to buy the best of anything let alone meat! Some people haven't got that choice even if they would want to make it. With one in ten people living below the poverty line you can see it's not always about choice!

Again, though, I'm not saying that it's right, but that's how it's gonna work, pack it in, keep it as cheaply as possible, kill it and pack it out....awful but probably true!

[gimygirl 0]

... we all make the choices that are the most important to us.

Exactly. How we spend our money is our business.

actually for you ... how you spend your money is your wife's business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*runs and hides behind a tree-hugger*

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

... we all make the choices that are the most important to us.

Exactly. How we spend our money is our business.

actually for you ... how you spend your money is your wife's business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*runs and hides behind a tree-hugger*

too true

[Ban Hammer 14,269]

sounds like a redneck game