House ignores Bush, rejects $700B bailout bill

[rebeccajo 14]

Regardless of all of the He said-She said BS, I'm just glad it got voted down. Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel like giving my tiny amount of money to help pay the 34 million dollar "bonus" of some f##ktard who helped kill off a "financial giant". They f##ked up; it's their problem. Wall Street can go to hell too, as far as I'm concerned. Heaven forbid people actually have to work for their money...

Platy nooo! This is not about wall street anymore.

It was all about wall street and manufactured money. The house of cards fell.

Check your 401K balance tomorrow morning and then get back to me about that manufactured money bit.

Regardless of all of the He said-She said BS, I'm just glad it got voted down. Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel like giving my tiny amount of money to help pay the 34 million dollar "bonus" of some f##ktard who helped kill off a "financial giant". They f##ked up; it's their problem. Wall Street can go to hell too, as far as I'm concerned. Heaven forbid people actually have to work for their money...

I'm surprised to hear that.

Sure, these guys fukced up the entire system. But do we let that take down the entire country? Do you think it's mere histrionics when you learn that if credit markets dry up, that jobs will be lost? I can guarantee you that most payrolls in this country are backed by lines of credit, paid back when invoices are paid.

There will be MASSIVE layoffs in this country if this doesn't get fixed. And that is not a joke.

Good. A correction needed to be done. Lets get on with it. Next time in the future start paying attention on your politicians and vote. This mess was coming a long time ago. It was said it would happen but nothing was done. In fact everyone kept feeding at the trough gorging themselves. If this plan had been done it would have meant an even worse outcome in the future. It was a house of cards and came down.

You can't lay this at the feet of Washington unless you are in FAVOR of regulation. And that's not what I'm reading from you. Don't talk out of both sides of your mouth unless you know what you are talking about.

I did check it. I moved most of the funds into bonds quite awhile ago to capture profits. Like I did before the dot com burst. Luckily I had two good choices of bond funds.

Laying this at the feet of Washington. Maybe we all have misunderstandings about what is regulations. Regulating to me is saying a bank can only operate here and not there. I think competition is good. Telling a business they can't operate somewhere is unfair business practices and creates less incentive to do a good job managing.

Oversight and compliance is different. Now if gthat bank can go and use just their depositors money to then turn around and make loans then so be it. The people have a stake that they are entrusting their bank managers to make good loans and good business practices to stay in bjusiness. Now if that same bank is going to borrow money from a central bank to make more money and profits then they must submit to examination of a oversight board that are complaying with rules set forth. They must open the books and assure they are following sound business practices.

They are both regulations I guess. Now we have seen from looking back many things of oversight that was not done. Why? To get the ok to deregulate and be able to open branches in the Clinton era (with Reps blessing) the rules were changes that banks had to give loans to minorities and such. Not a bad idea at all. I saw no color of someones skin if they could show they were good credit risks. Something went wrong though. At first I saw that the new loans in lower income areas were working. The loans to be approved had to be more relaxed in down payments and credit scores. Banks seemed to be relaxing a bit and approving some of these loans but then a flood gate opened and a few started to get too relaxed and approve most. The economy was humming along for a long time and those few made money so others came on board and more until it was standard to throw good busines practices out the door.

We saw the video where some hearings came up and certain politicians castigated Fannie mae and Freddie mac and other politicians did not. Then Greenspan said later that this meltdown was coming if we did not get back to sound business practices and oversight. He was castigated and asked that maybe he had been around too long and should retire.

Now we are where we should be. A correction was needed and now we pay the piper. If a bailout would have happened then historical economics would have shown that the pain later would have been even worse by several shades. Catastrophic is how I would put it.

What do I know though. I am just a truck driver.

Regulation Q (which deregulated the S&L's and put them on the same footing as banks) happened in the early 80's. I don't think Bill Clinton was president then.

Regulation doesn't just govern business between banks. It means opening the books to a regulatory body such as FDIC/FSLIC and complying with standard accounting practices. And it means regulation of investment bankers, which is the crux of the problem. Banks, S&Ls - all of them are regulated. Some are in trouble right now because they can't unload the mortgage portfolios. But who was buying them? The unregulated investment houses.

Yes we have a difference of opinion on regulation. You need to understand WHAT needs regulated now and what's propelling the situation.

You need to understand what has REALLY happened in banking before you talk about how it DOESN'T affect you. I spent over 25 years in the business. You can sit here and bark at the moon all night long but until you can show me a clearer understanding than what you've got right now, then I see you and raise you.

Edited September 30, 2008 by rebeccajo

[rebeccajo 14]

It's not television, Mark. Ask them where you work if there's not a line of credit behind the payroll. There's one where I work.

Its Marc! Relax its gonna be okay! The banks are eating each other up as it should be. Weeding out the bad seeds. The ppl in the markets have a stake in all this. The banks are just whining and want help. The bad ones will fall and the good ones will be fine, its just a hangover from the party.

Mark.................it's not the bankers!

Are you people really watching the news?

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

It's not television, Mark. Ask them where you work if there's not a line of credit behind the payroll. There's one where I work.

Its Marc! Relax its gonna be okay! The banks are eating each other up as it should be. Weeding out the bad seeds. The ppl in the markets have a stake in all this. The banks are just whining and want help. The bad ones will fall and the good ones will be fine, its just a hangover from the party.

Mark.................it's not the bankers!

Are you people really watching the news?

You my fine lady are being a lemmming!

[IAMX 3,055]

I don't see where it supports it.

I don't see where I need to put that statement in every post I make. Would it make you happy?

And your comment this afternoon flies in the face of bitter reality.

Well, I'm sure there are flies in the face of horses, and also, consequently, flies in the horse sh!t you call reality, which should actually be prices way too high because of devil-may-care lending practices that helped cause prices to soar well too high above even remotely reasonable values, especially here in California.

You won't be getting a bargain in real estate - at least not if you need a loan. Because you won't be able to get one.

That's alright with me. Eventually lending will (and would if it gets much worse, as I hope it does) become profitable with reasonable oversight, so who will say no to profit? I still think the worst is yet to come and by then I will have saved enough to either buy a house here, or go through with some alternative plans we've been considering regarding homes.

Pay attention. The Fed has continued to lower the rate over the last 12 months, but have you seen mortgages rates go down significantly in that time period? No you haven't. That's Econ 101 for you in 'everyday working joe how it affects ME' terms.

The fed acted too late, and lowering interest rates and printing/distributing more money with the Treasury was a stupid idea that changed nothing nor would it have ever in the long run. There is no way to avoid the catastrophe that just happened as the cause of the problem has nothing to do with rates.

It's basically an idiot running up to a hurricane on a Texas beach in Gavelston holding a sandbag and expecting to stop the flooding.

Edited September 30, 2008 by SRVT

[rebeccajo 14]

NO.

The banks didn't lower the rates because they were still holding too much paper. They couldn't unload new originations because the pipeline was backing up.

And just so we're crystal clear on things, I think it's damn petty to wish ill on the rest of the population just so it betters you personally in the long run.

Sounds a lot like the Wall Street greed you're going on about, if you want my opinion.

Edited September 30, 2008 by rebeccajo

[luckytxn 2,265]

I can sit here and bark at the moon all I want Rebecca. No one can stop me. I am allowed my opinion and it is just as important as yours. (Or less).The deregualtion I am talking about happened in 1994. That dregaulation you mentioned was a disaster and created the massive savings and loan collapse.

I never said that any of this ####### would NOT affect me. If already has heavily. My industry has been in the doldrums for about 2 years now. My industry has also never went whining and asked for handouts. The massive layoffs and lost business has been seen as a cycle that happens every now and again. This has happened before and will again.

My portfolio is looking pretty good because I saw a warning and reacted. I could have been wrong and lost some profit that could have accumalated. I got lucky this time and chose to move my money someplace safer. I did once before also. Why did I do it. I read sometimes and saw historical trend happening. I heeded warnings.

Now since you say you are such a expert and all please enlighten us all and tell us what we should do. Historically enfusing this huge amount of cash to stave off danger has always backfired and created a worse situation. Now since you know all and I am just a lousy truck driver please tell us how to do what historically has been a bad idea.

Edited September 30, 2008 by luckytxn

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I can sit here and bark at the moon all I want Rebecca. No one can stop me. I am allowed my opinion and it is just as important as yours. (Or less).The deregualtion I am talking about happened in 1994. That dregaulation you mentioned was a disaster and created the massive savings and loan collapse.

I never said that any of this ####### would NOT affect me. If already has heavily. My industry has been in the doldrums for about 2 years now. My industry has also never went whining and asked for handouts. The massive layoffs and lost business has been seen as a cycle that happens every now and again. This has happened before and will again.

My portfolio is looking pretty good because I saw a warning and reacted. I could have been wrong and lost some profit that could have accumalated. I got lucky this time and chose to move my money someplace safer. I did once before also. Why did I do it. I read sometimes and saw historical trend happening. I heeded warnings.

Now since you say you are such a expert and all please enlighten us all and tell us what we should do. Historically enfusing this huge amount of cash to stave off danger has alwasy backfired and created a worse situation. Now sonce you know all and I am just a lousy truck driver please tell us how to do what historically has been a bad idea.

Nice to see someone thats not dependant!

[rebeccajo 14]

It's not television, Mark. Ask them where you work if there's not a line of credit behind the payroll. There's one where I work.

Its Marc! Relax its gonna be okay! The banks are eating each other up as it should be. Weeding out the bad seeds. The ppl in the markets have a stake in all this. The banks are just whining and want help. The bad ones will fall and the good ones will be fine, its just a hangover from the party.

Mark.................it's not the bankers!

Are you people really watching the news?

You my fine lady are being a lemmming!

Lemmings are the dip$hits dumping their portfolios today. That ain't me.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

It's not television, Mark. Ask them where you work if there's not a line of credit behind the payroll. There's one where I work.

Its Marc! Relax its gonna be okay! The banks are eating each other up as it should be. Weeding out the bad seeds. The ppl in the markets have a stake in all this. The banks are just whining and want help. The bad ones will fall and the good ones will be fine, its just a hangover from the party.

Mark.................it's not the bankers!

Are you people really watching the news?

You my fine lady are being a lemmming!

Lemmings are the dip$hits dumping their portfolios today. That ain't me.

Its the garbage thats getting cleaned out, hedge fund manageres are gettin KILLED!

[luckytxn 2,265]

I can sit here and bark at the moon all I want Rebecca. No one can stop me. I am allowed my opinion and it is just as important as yours. (Or less).The deregualtion I am talking about happened in 1994. That dregaulation you mentioned was a disaster and created the massive savings and loan collapse.

I never said that any of this ####### would NOT affect me. If already has heavily. My industry has been in the doldrums for about 2 years now. My industry has also never went whining and asked for handouts. The massive layoffs and lost business has been seen as a cycle that happens every now and again. This has happened before and will again.

My portfolio is looking pretty good because I saw a warning and reacted. I could have been wrong and lost some profit that could have accumalated. I got lucky this time and chose to move my money someplace safer. I did once before also. Why did I do it. I read sometimes and saw historical trend happening. I heeded warnings.

Now since you say you are such a expert and all please enlighten us all and tell us what we should do. Historically enfusing this huge amount of cash to stave off danger has alwasy backfired and created a worse situation. Now sonce you know all and I am just a lousy truck driver please tell us how to do what historically has been a bad idea.

Nice to see someone thats not dependant!

Read again. I said I was dependant. My industry has been hit hard and I hate my company but waiting to see the shakeout and make a move. I have been hurt by this ####### way longer than everyone else already. It is just nlow coming home to roost with more normal people.

It's not television, Mark. Ask them where you work if there's not a line of credit behind the payroll. There's one where I work.

Its Marc! Relax its gonna be okay! The banks are eating each other up as it should be. Weeding out the bad seeds. The ppl in the markets have a stake in all this. The banks are just whining and want help. The bad ones will fall and the good ones will be fine, its just a hangover from the party.

Mark.................it's not the bankers!

Are you people really watching the news?

You my fine lady are being a lemmming!

Lemmings are the dip$hits dumping their portfolios today. That ain't me.

If you are dumping a portfolio today then you deserve what you get.

[rebeccajo 14]

I can sit here and bark at the moon all I want Rebecca. No one can stop me. I am allowed my opinion and it is just as important as yours. (Or less).The deregualtion I am talking about happened in 1994. That dregaulation you mentioned was a disaster and created the massive savings and loan collapse.

I never said that any of this ####### would NOT affect me. If already has heavily. My industry has been in the doldrums for about 2 years now. My industry has also never went whining and asked for handouts. The massive layoffs and lost business has been seen as a cycle that happens every now and again. This has happened before and will again.

My portfolio is looking pretty good because I saw a warning and reacted. I could have been wrong and lost some profit that could have accumalated. I got lucky this time and chose to move my money someplace safer. I did once before also. Why did I do it. I read sometimes and saw historical trend happening. I heeded warnings.

Now since you say you are such a expert and all please enlighten us all and tell us what we should do. Historically enfusing this huge amount of cash to stave off danger has always backfired and created a worse situation. Now since you know all and I am just a lousy truck driver please tell us how to do what historically has been a bad idea.

Oh simmer down and get that chip off your shoulder.

Reg Q had nadda to do with saving and loans collapsing. I cited it because IT began deregulating you lay at the feet of the Democratic Party. You need to get your timelines straight.

All I am saying to you is this - the way you do your BANKING is not comparable to what happens when the big boys play. If you moved your money when you saw the warning signs, then good for you because you were paying attention.

And you cannot compare what happens in ONE INDUSTRY insofar as business cycles (ie the trucking industry) to what happens with the financial sector. It touches EVERYTHING.

PS - It's late, I'm tired and I hit a button before i meant too. Yes I realize your industry is hard pressed. But tell me if you don't think that's not due to another industry that could use some regulation. The Fat Cats at Exxon have MORE than golden parachutes right now, and they are driving up the cost of moving goods across this country.

You better hope that someday our government figures out that while capitalism IS good, greed is not, and SOMEBODY has to check greed at the door. Allowing pure capitalism to play out is what has gotten us into the current financial mess. The same will happen with oil if someone does not wake up.

Edited September 30, 2008 by rebeccajo

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Heaven forbid people actually have to work for their money...

Oh, spare me the working-class hero garbage.

[IAMX 3,055]

NO.

The banks didn't lower the rates because they were still holding too much paper. They couldn't unload new originations because the pipeline was backing up.

Due to.. let's hear it...

Foreclosures!

Which yet still comes back to the predatory lending practices (they sure unloaded lots there) and self-regulation which has been the real discussion regarding this topic.

And just so we're crystal clear on things, I think it's damn petty to wish ill on the rest of the population just so it betters you personally in the long run is pretty pathetic.

Sounds a lot like the Wall Street greed you're going on about, if you want my opinion.

I'm not going on about greed. Everyone has greed of some sort. However, this has to do with sensibility and prices that don't just affect me, but everyone else, especially in this region. See, I guess I'm not so selfish after all, even though everyone is selfish in their own ways, I'd love for you to lie and tell me you're never selfish.

This ill that would be placed upon the rest of the population would have very little affect, especially compared to most other first world countries where people do things in moderation, not excess. Joe CheeseFries might be finding himself making a garden, or eating less, and could live a few more years. See, not so selfish. Then again, he could spend out his ###, and still eat it and have a McHeartAttack if he chooses. People also might find themselves actually occupying, as first time owners, these houses, rather than renting all the damn time to someone owning their 234092304th house, playing the cheating game of using a renter to pay off his umpteenth house.

Yeah, maybe I do respect more the people who work hard, not finding a corner to cut in every turn. But of course you obviously know everything about why I think the way I do, so why aren't you running the country?

Edited September 30, 2008 by SRVT

[luckytxn 2,265]

I never compared it to another industry at all and never said that. The housing went bye bye. My industry was swimming in money and gorging on the flow of money. It went belly up way before this financial melt down. The financial melt down in this instance is the same thing.

The trucking industry has always been in consumables. It is the bread and butter and always will be. The housing lending boom ignited a huge amount of new product for us. It looked great for a long time. The industry I am in grew and bought new trucks and enlarged their capacity and bought out smaller oufits and went in a feeding frenzy. The housing industry went kaboom. 2 years now we have been in turmoil. I expected it and always have my funds set aside to tide me over.

Now you are saying it seems that the government should come in and bail out the financials so regular people do not go through what I have had to do in the last 2 years. I say BS. It is a cycle and correction that was due and needs to continue. Next time we may all listen and watch out more.

Edited September 30, 2008 by luckytxn

[PlatyPius 5]

Heaven forbid people actually have to work for their money...

Oh, spare me the working-class hero garbage.

What are you whining about, Curry Man? YOU work for your money....