Spotlight on Egypt's marriage crisis

[Hanna&Mohamed 0]

I dont know about all mena men .Mohamed started building our flat when we became engaged it wasnt finished yet when we married .When I went back in febuary it was finished.We would decide the colors and he would show me on cammera when they finished each room.I was so excited when it was finally finished .We didnt know at the time what our baby was going to be and he put Amir beside the door .He was so right!!!!

[Hanna&Mohamed 0]

Bull Hockey

Anyway...yes, livingroom (couch) marriages still happen in farm country but in Cairo and Alex...girls are out and about picking and choosing a hubby and many openly discuss it. The sad part is .. most of the young men you will talk to feel they are out for money...(not much different than here I tell them! LOL) If you can't afford a flat or to furnish it the girls will not even take a second look.

Would you really want to live with your mother-in-law if your husband couldn't aford a flat?

Think of the culture of respecting your elders, ect... I have a friend in that situation right now and she's pregnant - it's really not a pretty picture and the husband tends to side with the MIL more when she is in his face all the time.

Love is great and all, but with gender rolls the way they are I'm sure many of the girls look at it as self-preservation.

I was under the impression though that it was the girl's (or at least her family's) responsibility to provide everything for inside the home, but maby it's only for rural egypt where my husband is from.

The man should have a flat and it should be furnished and also offer money to the family. Thats how its always worked in our family and within my husbands with the girls.

As for living with your mother-in-law...I'd love too! Of course in a bigger home!

Me too if I didnt have a flat I would love living with my mother n law she is wonderful and all his family is great.

[SterlingGirl 1]

This may sound a little ethnocentric, but it seems a bit sad to me that love has to take a backseat to financial stability simply because of prevailing cultural norms. If women can 1) contribute to the household income and 2) hold off on having children (which are naught but pure expense for people who are trying to establish themselves), then there's not really much of a problem. I think the issue arises when people want to immediately begin having children when they marry, or have only one person making a living.

Not saying that Westernized methods are "superior" or anything, but it seems to certainly make it easier for love to play the biggest factor in marriage. Sure, you've got your gold-diggers who marry only for money, and then wonder why they're unhappy years later. But I, personally, have never witnessed that kind of a setup - I've been middle class all my life. Succeed or fail, every relationship I've ever been privy to was forged out of love. I think it's tragic that any marriage should be done any differently.

So it does sound like a bit of shifting of some cultural norms would be in order.

[Tunisia216 2]

I definitely understand what you are saying.. And I think that there are some MENA countries were things are going this way (whether this is for the good or the bad - breaking tradition, etc is a personal opinion)

In Tunisia for example you are seeing a lot more women working full time jobs, having careers, marrying and contributing to the household expenses.. As well as waiting for a year to have children and then only having one until they feel more established.... I know other MENA countries have similar things going on.. But I think a lot of this, when it occurs and it's not a "gold digger" is just the girl's family (mainly her father or brothers) being concerned that her husband has the ability to care for her and provide her with the things that she needs.

This may sound a little ethnocentric, but it seems a bit sad to me that love has to take a backseat to financial stability simply because of prevailing cultural norms. If women can 1) contribute to the household income and 2) hold off on having children (which are naught but pure expense for people who are trying to establish themselves), then there's not really much of a problem. I think the issue arises when people want to immediately begin having children when they marry, or have only one person making a living.

Not saying that Westernized methods are "superior" or anything, but it seems to certainly make it easier for love to play the biggest factor in marriage. Sure, you've got your gold-diggers who marry only for money, and then wonder why they're unhappy years later. But I, personally, have never witnessed that kind of a setup - I've been middle class all my life. Succeed or fail, every relationship I've ever been privy to was forged out of love. I think it's tragic that any marriage should be done any differently.

So it does sound like a bit of shifting of some cultural norms would be in order.

[SterlingGirl 1]

But I think a lot of this, when it occurs and it's not a "gold digger" is just the girl's family (mainly her father or brothers) being concerned that her husband has the ability to care for her and provide her with the things that she needs.

Oh, of course, and it's a valid concern. But just saying, in those cases, having an educated daughter or one who has learned a skill or trade could certainly help alleviate that stress on the man to be the sole provider, thus kind of freeing the both of them up to put more emphasis on love or compatibility, rather than laying all the burden on the man to completely support the woman - thereby creating a need to shop around for the wealthiest man for your daughter to marry.

[Tunisia216 2]

Again, totally understand what you mean... But it's a cultural/religious thing in some cases.. In Islam or MENA countries it's often the role of the man to work and provide for his family and his wife... But more and more societies even in MENA countries are moving away from that.. and finding exactly what you stated that life can be easier if both spouses are working and contributing to their household. And maybe some day in the future we'll even see the men 'shopping' or looking for the wives because of their levels of education and such....

But I think a lot of this, when it occurs and it's not a "gold digger" is just the girl's family (mainly her father or brothers) being concerned that her husband has the ability to care for her and provide her with the things that she needs.

Oh, of course, and it's a valid concern. But just saying, in those cases, having an educated daughter or one who has learned a skill or trade could certainly help alleviate that stress on the man to be the sole provider, thus kind of freeing the both of them up to put more emphasis on love or compatibility, rather than laying all the burden on the man to completely support the woman - thereby creating a need to shop around for the wealthiest man for your daughter to marry.

[Hanna&Mohamed 0]

Again, totally understand what you mean... But it's a cultural/religious thing in some cases.. In Islam or MENA countries it's often the role of the man to work and provide for his family and his wife... But more and more societies even in MENA countries are moving away from that.. and finding exactly what you stated that life can be easier if both spouses are working and contributing to their household. And maybe some day in the future we'll even see the men 'shopping' or looking for the wives because of their levels of education and such....

But I think a lot of this, when it occurs and it's not a "gold digger" is just the girl's family (mainly her father or brothers) being concerned that her husband has the ability to care for her and provide her with the things that she needs.

Oh, of course, and it's a valid concern. But just saying, in those cases, having an educated daughter or one who has learned a skill or trade could certainly help alleviate that stress on the man to be the sole provider, thus kind of freeing the both of them up to put more emphasis on love or compatibility, rather than laying all the burden on the man to completely support the woman - thereby creating a need to shop around for the wealthiest man for your daughter to marry.

Ash u are so right!!! We decided we wanted a baby right after we got married !

[Sandrila 1]

Ash

Thank you for sharing the article with us.

I like it and i would be interesting in reading her book.

All have made good valid points. It is amazing to see how really different it is living in these countries, with their religion, culture and traditions. Most people who live here and who arent involved with a MENA man cannot understand those expectations and frustrations nor could they live under such restrictions and clarity.

I really do enjoy these topics very much and always interested to see what goes on in the other areas of MENA besides Morocco.

[Tunisia216 2]

I feel the same way! I learn so much here on VJ and then go home and have a lot of discussions spurred by articles and debates that I have read here! I think sometimes it's just a matter of opening your mind to different countries, cultures, religions and along the way you might learn new things about yourself.

Ash

Thank you for sharing the article with us.

I like it and i would be interesting in reading her book.

All have made good valid points. It is amazing to see how really different it is living in these countries, with their religion, culture and traditions. Most people who live here and who arent involved with a MENA man cannot understand those expectations and frustrations nor could they live under such restrictions and clarity.

I really do enjoy these topics very much and always interested to see what goes on in the other areas of MENA besides Morocco.

[Sandrila 1]

We surely all can attest how, even in US, for the average person, you need to have 2 incomes to really

live comfortably.

Women here want to work but it is a shame how, because of money, we are not always able

to have the time or stability to just stay home and take care of our children, domestic tasks and our husbands.

We see how frustrating it is to "be" with our loved ones so I can surely understand what huge undertaking it is to be working and waiting all those years just to be in an adequate position to marry the one you love.

Maybe the reason why these girls get married and arranged so young is because, at that age they can be "molded"

and it would make their parents lives "easier" since they would no longer be "financially" responsible. You would think that these kind of standards would yield very hardworking and successful gentlemen, knowing that the only way they can attain the life, most search for (marriage, children, home, acceptance from family, peer and society) is to get crackin young.

But being poor in MENA and being poor here are 2 totally different ways of life. We have opportunity...we have a government, who does help people help themself.

We are also blessed with support, from family and friends.

When everyone around you is poor and has NOTHING and NOTHING to do, what kind of support can they lend?

Having nothing you cant give, even if you want to, and nothing to do can make you feel restless, imcompetent and worthless.

If you cant even ask for help from your own family where would alot of us be?

It is really hardcore over there and I think people need to know that people live this way. No resources, no outlets, no chance.

I am sure the up and coming generations slowly will recognize that you definitely need to KNOW the person you are going to marry and marry for money, marrying just because "it is time" to marry will never be a guarantee for a successful future. I cant even imagine marrying someone I wasnt attracted to or felt love and passion with.

Just rambling.

[Sandrila 1]

Let's remember that extended families are not just something that exists in 3rd world countries.

I actually lived with my ex husband's mother and father in a huge home for near 13 years and raised 3 children in that environment. It has its good points and bad. I wouldnt recommend it or, if you had to, keep it as short of a living arrangement as possible. And to think the people over there living in such cramped conditions and under each other's noses and feet. No thank you.

I know, from what my hubby says, that is not accepted too much for a married couple to live in the family's home after marriage. I guess people are considered a burden from the time they are brought into the world, due to poverty. The parents will not support the offspring once they assume their own responsibility in life, once you are of age, you are ON YOUR OWN.

Unless you are rich, of course, that is a different story.

[Tunisia216 2]

Well I don't think that's really all that different from the USA... I was OUT when I was 18 ... I think in MENA countries it's much later in life... But my parents didn't support me after highschool at all - I went and was living on my own without assistance from them.

But by "of age" I'm not sure on that part.. Maybe Morocco is different, but in Tunis men are living at home until they are 30 or 35 because they are marrying much later in life (working, saving money, building a home, etc before taking a bride) And in many cases even if they are working, they are still the burden of the family to feed and house, as the money they are making from work is being saved for the almighty marriage goal.....

Regarding the 'burden' part this just gives more insight into the arranged marriages or living room marriages/ husband shopping - The fathers/families want to take the burden of the daughter off (financial burden) but want to be sure that she's going somewhere that her standard of living is going to be equal or above what she had with her parents.

I know, from what my hubby says, that is not accepted too much for a married couple to live in the family's home after marriage. I guess people are considered a burden from the time they are brought into the world, due to poverty. The parents will not support the offspring once they assume their own responsibility in life, once you are of age, you are ON YOUR OWN.

Unless you are rich, of course, that is a different story. [/color]

[Sandrila 1]

I was out on my own at 17/18 as well....it has made me a stronger person.